Priming- Airbrush vs Rattle can

[Bloody Legionnaire]

Primer question, for you guys that have moved on to airbrushing do you prefer to prime with the airbrush and something like vallejos urethane primer or do you still use rattle can spray primer? I just got my Iwata Eclipse today and I'm wondering if I should even bother with the cans of Prime I have on hand?

[Isador Sotho]

I switched to airbrushing quite some time ago and never missed spray cans.

In general I prefer the increased control the airbrush offers me, but I see no reason why you shouldn't empty any cans you already own.
You probably want to use them for big parts like scenery and similar.

[Amayasu]

I still prime with a rattle can, but only because I swear by Halford's Grey Car Primer.

 

The Vallejo primers are good via an Airbrush, but on forgeworld stuff the Car Primer is godly.

[Bloody Legionnaire]

I have used Army Painters Primer on Resin models with pretty decent success, and I normally prime all my other non SW models with Painters Touch 2x Primers. I guess if I some forgeworld down the road I'll prime with can, but maybe I should pick up some of the Vallejo primer and start using that.

[NovemberIX]

I much prefer using rattle can primer to airbrushing it on. It seems to go on smoother and more opaquely than when I try to use my airbrush. I could also be a complete yabo :p

[Imren]

apart from its way cheaper to airbrush primers, I find I have way more control and smoother finish with vallejos urethane primer compared to other can primers (like GW or army painter). Works fine on resin and metal as fine as plastic

[captainblow]

Personally I've always found the can primes to be tougher wearing/scratching, except perhaps the alclad2 primers (not gloss one). But I hardly ever use them, as the airbrush is so much easier, and not reliant on weather.

[Beaky Brigade]

The most important consideration is, will your minis be living in a display cabinet or on the tabletop? Many of the acrylic based airbrush on primers are really meant for display minis only, they will come off easily.

[captainblow]

The most important consideration is, will your minis be living in a display cabinet or on the tabletop? Many of the acrylic based airbrush on primers are really meant for display minis only, they will come off easily.

I agree, however, when you 're airbushing there's nothing stopping you from using several gloss varnish coats. before washes, once you're done (follow it up with satin/matt)etc. 

 

Those coats will make it tough.

[Bloody Legionnaire]

The most important consideration is, will your minis be living in a display cabinet or on the tabletop? Many of the acrylic based airbrush on primers are really meant for display minis only, they will come off easily.

 

I disagree.. I was a model hobbyist way before I ever got into Warhammer. A Clear Coat followed by a Dull (flat) coat will protect the paint. I don't know how a primer would magically slip off...? Except for maybe on a resin model the primer on plastic is fine. 

[Kaedes Nex]

I still prime with a rattle can, but only because I swear by Halford's Grey Car Primer.

 

The Vallejo primers are good via an Airbrush, but on forgeworld stuff the Car Primer is godly.

 

You can decant aerosol spray cans into a small cup, then pour it into your airbrush and use it that way, giving you the benefits of the superior formula of the spraycan with the superior performance and thinner, smoother coat of the airbrush.

 

Here's a guide: https://www.tamiyausa.com/articles/decanting-tamiya-spray-301

[Bloody Legionnaire]

 

I still prime with a rattle can, but only because I swear by Halford's Grey Car Primer.

 

The Vallejo primers are good via an Airbrush, but on forgeworld stuff the Car Primer is godly.

 

You can decant aerosol spray cans into a small cup, then pour it into your airbrush and use it that way, giving you the benefits of the superior formula of the spraycan with the superior performance and thinner, smoother coat of the airbrush.

 

Here's a guide: https://www.tamiyausa.com/articles/decanting-tamiya-spray-301

I understand what you're saying but the easiest thing to do would be to just buy enamel paint and shoot that through an airbrush.

[Strength 10]

Always airbrush for me now since I started doing it. Vallejo's polyurethane just goes on very nicely, leaves details in tact and you can get paint into hard to reach areas more easily. Less smell and mess also.

[Bung]

I would say priming would depend on what you are going to prime and if you want already do some highlighting.

 

My thougths would be first:

 

- am i doing single miniature or group

- what level i am going to paint (ranges from gaming table basics to competition painting)

- do i want to do some highlights already

 

A single miniature or group for gaming would go just black primer from the rattle can for less cleaning work.

Going for a higher level of painting i would do black and white priming with rattle can or simple black with lights don by airbrush.

For high quality display miniatures or such made from Resin like FW i would do a Grey undercoat first, cause it will help finding litte damages and mold lines you may not have seen building the miniature. If you have done this you can use black and white primer with the airbrush to do light and shadows.

 

That are my thoughts on priming.

[JeffTibbetts]

I've been battling with this... I got some Vallejo SP a while back based on great recommendations, but frankly I can't stand it. I've tried white, black AND gray, and no matter what it scratches off with the slightest provocation. I called their support people and they asked me a million questions, trying to figure out what I was doing wrong. I had tried different PSI, thinning it with different materials, varying the distance, giving it extra time to dry... Nothing seemed to make a difference. I know I'm not alone on this, either. Brother Firepower has talked about it here, as well as others across the various hobby forums I visit. It's a bit Marmite. Some people love it, other people hate it. 

 

I switched to the Badger brand a while back because there was a good deal on Amazon, and they've been holding up better but they're still not perfect. For the Deathwatch Overkill stuff, I opted to switch back to at least start with a thin rattle-can spray. I used the very affordable and highly recommended brand Duplicolor, matte black from their Sandable line. I sprayed it on in four very thin passes, so it still had some plastic showing through. I've been experimenting with this method recently and I do like the finish it produces. The can cost me $5 USD and I didn't use much at all on the DW stuff. After that, I went in and airbrushed the Badger black over the top to get a good strong color, and that finish seems pretty tough to me. I know it's an extra step, but for gaming pieces that will be used by non-wargamers I felt it was worth it, and frankly I really like that Duplicolor spray. I think I'll do this with pretty much everything from now on. Just spray the sprue lightly with the rattle can, then clip off, clean up, assemble and spray the other primer on top of that. I use the very thinnest coats and I haven't seen any detail fill in at all, so you do have to be a bit careful, I assume. 

[Bloody Legionnaire]

I've been battling with this... I got some Vallejo SP a while back based on great recommendations, but frankly I can't stand it. I've tried white, black AND gray, and no matter what it scratches off with the slightest provocation. I called their support people and they asked me a million questions, trying to figure out what I was doing wrong. I had tried different PSI, thinning it with different materials, varying the distance, giving it extra time to dry... Nothing seemed to make a difference. I know I'm not alone on this, either. Brother Firepower has talked about it here, as well as others across the various hobby forums I visit. It's a bit Marmite. Some people love it, other people hate it. 

 

I switched to the Badger brand a while back because there was a good deal on Amazon, and they've been holding up better but they're still not perfect. For the Deathwatch Overkill stuff, I opted to switch back to at least start with a thin rattle-can spray. I used the very affordable and highly recommended brand Duplicolor, matte black from their Sandable line. I sprayed it on in four very thin passes, so it still had some plastic showing through. I've been experimenting with this method recently and I do like the finish it produces. The can cost me $5 USD and I didn't use much at all on the DW stuff. After that, I went in and airbrushed the Badger black over the top to get a good strong color, and that finish seems pretty tough to me. I know it's an extra step, but for gaming pieces that will be used by non-wargamers I felt it was worth it, and frankly I really like that Duplicolor spray. I think I'll do this with pretty much everything from now on. Just spray the sprue lightly with the rattle can, then clip off, clean up, assemble and spray the other primer on top of that. I use the very thinnest coats and I haven't seen any detail fill in at all, so you do have to be a bit careful, I assume. 

 

The first thing that comes to mind when people talk of paint scratching or peeling off is are you washing your plastics or resins before spraying them. The mold release agent can cause problems with adhesion. Acrylics dominate the gaming model realm.. but they aren't as strong as Enamels. Acrylics are somewhat brittle.

 

I really need to order some and try it out so I can compare.

[Imren]

Own experience tells me that the following procedure will create best rub-off/scratch protection (good for models to be played with, and perhaps not for display models since the varnished changes the colours a little, especially metallics):

 

1. Ensure you have cleaned off your mold lines, assembled the model up to the point were further assembly obstructs painting (including pinning assembled parts to corks or whatever method you use for handling while painting).
2. Using dishwasher detergent, hot water and a toothbrush, wash and brush off the release agent, natural finger greases etc.
3. Put them in a cupboard for drying, cupboard prevents dust particles settling on them while waiting. Alternatively, use hairdryer.
4. Use whatever primer you like, Vallejo SP, rattle cans (GW, Armypainter, Halfords whatever).
5. Do your painting.
6. Gloss varnish (gives the rub off and scratch protection)
7. Matt varnish diluted with water 50/50 (dulls down the glossiness, apply it thinly)

Bottom line is, if the models are very clean, with no grease and finger prints on them when priming, and then at the end you do the two varnish coats. You'll have a scratch and rub-off protection independent of the primer you use, the primer settled on clean surface and the varnishes protect.

 

I have done this with using vallejo's primers, GW cans and army painter cans, and I have found there is no difference in rub off resistance for the completed model (using the procedure above).

[winterdyne]

The vallejo PU primers are great but they really, really need to cure fully if you want them to be reasonably robust. This takes around 48 hours at room temperature.

 

You can paint on them after about 25 minutes if you've put 'em on thin, but they are fragile - more like a gesso than a primer that 'bites' into the surface.

 

You absolutely must varnish when you're done.

[captainblow]

I've heard people recommend spraying on varnish before priming in situations where primer rubs off easily, no experience with it though.

[winterdyne]

That's more to do with having a too-smooth or contaminated surface. A solvent-based primer (or varnish) will often cut through mould release agents that are leeching through the surface and provide a workable surface. Something like the vallejo PU primers won't do that - they need a pretty clean surface to begin with. That's why a lot of people use the automotive (car) primers on forgeworld stuff.

[ronin_cse]

Just wanted to point out that the normal air brush primers are polyurethane acrylic based paints. The polyurethane helps make the paint a bit more durable but it still just sits on top of the plastic and if one tries it will scrape off. As others have said the rattle can paints have chemicals in them that causes them to bind to the model so they tend to be a bit more durable.

 

Personally I still prefer airbrush primers as I can get better control, I don't need to worry about the weather, they tend to go on smoother and thinner, and I can start painting much sooner. Needing to use a varnish is a fine compromise for me.

[Bloody Legionnaire]

I appreciate the information guys! I'll most likely be doing my Dark Angels marines in rattle can spray paint primers as I bought a few cans and I want to use them up. I just got some vallejo surface primer in the mail and I'm going to test them out on some space wolves and see what I think about it. 

[winterdyne]

Seriously, and because it's worth repeating - LET IT CURE is the advice with the Vallejo primer. Overnight at a push, ideally 48 hours.

 

Now this said, you can paint on it after about 45 minutes or quicker depending on application, but you can't handle it. This means mounting up models for painting and expecting that you'll lose paint off sharp edges if you rub it. If you do this, expect to have to do a good job varnishing.

[JeffTibbetts]

I let the Vallejo stuff cure for longer than 48 hours at least one time when I was troubleshooting. It didn't seem to make a difference. 

[ronin_cse]

Does painting over the primer affect the curing process? Like if I start painting over the primer within like an hour but wait a full couple days before playing will the primer underneath fully cure?