Unknown Legionnaire Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 First off, yes, the Herald seems to be suboptimal when compared to a cheap Delegatus on most occasions, yet I have a soft spot for a HQ choice waving around a big banner in the enemies face. That being said, while I'm still working on and playing with my XXth Legion, I am yet looking forwards to collecting a second Heresy Era army, this time for the Loyalist side of things, to be able to swap sides in later campaigns. Thus, it's pretty clear that the Herald I'm aiming for will be the one with the 'Banner of the Aquila'. Legion wise I am yet totally undecided, though I'm not especially fond of DA and IH. I'm not opposed (matter of factly quite attracted) to running the 'Orphans of Betrayal' RoW with the Herald, to broaden up the spectrum of possible Legion choices. Now, if we discard AL, which I play on the Traitor side of things, and leave out DA and IH ... - Which Legion opens up nice builds for the Herald to increase survivability ? (I'm looking at you Legatine Axe) - Which Legion and / or Legion specific units team up best / synergize well with a Herald and the Aquila, in your opinion ? - Is the +1 WS buff worth it even ? Depending on what sort of opponents ? - Units surrounding the Herald will obviously support / aim for a melee centric build or a highly defensive one (Imperial Fists ?) Any input on these thoughts and how to make a Herald Consul useful are greatly appreciated ! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/320644-legion-herald-consul-usefulness-and-possible-army-builds/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atia Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 I wish he would have the option for terminator armour .... well, maybe they FAQ it someday >.< Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/320644-legion-herald-consul-usefulness-and-possible-army-builds/#findComment-4342137 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkimaskMohawk Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 Night Lords, especially with the upcoming change to Talent for Murder will really like him with blobs in a Traitor army. Raptors in particular are crazy good when outnumbering and buffed by him Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/320644-legion-herald-consul-usefulness-and-possible-army-builds/#findComment-4342593 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatOneMarshal Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 The only problem is getting him to combat. He can't have a jump pack or bike or termie armor so he's stuck in artificer armor. Does his banner work from vehicles? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/320644-legion-herald-consul-usefulness-and-possible-army-builds/#findComment-4342602 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkimaskMohawk Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 Unless things specifically say it doesn't then you measure ranges as detailed under the embarking section of transports, so yes. Throw him with a blob in a spartan and advance up the field. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/320644-legion-herald-consul-usefulness-and-possible-army-builds/#findComment-4342630 Share on other sites More sharing options...
God-Potato of Mankind Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 So the buff aura extends from within a vehicle? So any loyalist Legion terminator squad can get a +1WS when charging out a Spartan? Seems alright. You can barebones the Herald too then. He'd go well with Sons of Horus, Emperor's Children, Ultramarines and Imperial Fists I think. They all have CC orientated power armour/artificer armoured troops he can join as an IC. Their Reavers, Palatines, Invictus Suzerains and Warders/Templars will benefit from either Traitor or Loyalist Herald buffs. On a lesser note I suppose the Palatines and Reavers are often equipped with jump packs and other Legion PA uniques (*glares at Rampagers*) meh'ness won't be solved by a benefit to their ability to hit or get to hit range. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/320644-legion-herald-consul-usefulness-and-possible-army-builds/#findComment-4342849 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Loss Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 So the buff aura extends from within a vehicle? So any loyalist Legion terminator squad can get a +1WS when charging out a Spartan? Seems alright. You can barebones the Herald too then. He'd go well with Sons of Horus, Emperor's Children, Ultramarines and Imperial Fists I think. They all have CC orientated power armour/artificer armoured troops he can join as an IC. Their Reavers, Palatines, Invictus Suzerains and Warders/Templars will benefit from either Traitor or Loyalist Herald buffs. On a lesser note I suppose the Palatines and Reavers are often equipped with jump packs and other Legion PA uniques (*glares at Rampagers*) meh'ness won't be solved by a benefit to their ability to hit or get to hit range. Just to be picky, the Loyalist Aura buffs WS by 1, but only to a maximum of 5. So units like Templar Brethren actually gain nothing from the banner at all as they're already WS5 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/320644-legion-herald-consul-usefulness-and-possible-army-builds/#findComment-4342855 Share on other sites More sharing options...
shandwen Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 Just to be picky, the Loyalist Aura buffs WS by 1, but only to a maximum of 5. So units like Templar Brethren actually gain nothing from the banner at all as they're already WS5Wow. So the herald is worthless for Invictus Suzarains as well. That's too bad. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/320644-legion-herald-consul-usefulness-and-possible-army-builds/#findComment-4342863 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown Legionnaire Posted March 22, 2016 Author Share Posted March 22, 2016 Thanks everyone for the input ! Yeah, the WS 5 cap is kinda ... uninspiring. A unit boosted to WS 6 that would hit elite infantry with WS 5 on a 3+ would have been nice, but alas. That's what I meant when I was mentioning that I'm really really struggling to find a use for that guy as well. At the moment, these are my thoughts ... - Big blob of loyalist World Eaters charging out of a Kharybdis .... expensive as hell, the combined unit alone would cost 600+ pts. Not worth it. Scouting WE with Endryd Haar are kinda neat and fluffy, but his presence would defeat the purpose of the Herald at least partially. - Imperial Fists defence line ... I.E. buffing 2+ units of Breachers. Again, this quickly becomes extremely expensive and whilst T 5 WS 5 Breachers (Stone Gauntlet) would be nice, the entire setup is once again too static. Buffing Phalanx Warders is totally obsolete with their new rules. - Ultras ... well they certainly offer the best life insurance for the Herald in the form of the Legatine Axe. Suzerain can't benefit from the Herald. One setup that comes to mind would be Breachers with power swords in Logos Lectora do sound fance, but again we'd be looking at a high tax since the Herald would be the third HQ choice . - Raven Guard sounds quite good. Infiltrating buffed-up blobs of infantry with stealth sounds nice, especially when supported by Dark Furies. Maybe even run Liberation Force with that Herald for Zealot and Fearless allies. - Loyalist Night Lords were something that occurred to me as well, though once again there would be the question of delivery. Units should be big to profit from 'Talent for Murder' At least they'd get a 5+ cover save in the first round. Tricky, really. The RG variant could probably work out best ... though there's still room for improvement and more thoughts (will be at least 5 months before I start a second Legion). EDIT: Salamanders w. 'The Awakening Fire' would come to mind as well, but again, if you wanted to go all out you'd be looking at 3 HQs: Chaplain, Herald & Librarian. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/320644-legion-herald-consul-usefulness-and-possible-army-builds/#findComment-4342990 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blindhamster Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 Seems like a herald would work alright as a second hq in BA armies - give him a blade of Perdition, he grants whatever he's with (tactical veterans) +1 WS, they wound 1 easier than normal due to being BA, then take day of revelations to get +1 init, and possibly furious charge. Ends up with them striking first, hitting on 3s or 4s, wounding on 2s. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/320644-legion-herald-consul-usefulness-and-possible-army-builds/#findComment-4343000 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown Legionnaire Posted March 22, 2016 Author Share Posted March 22, 2016 Seems like a herald would work alright as a second hq in BA armies - give him a blade of Perdition, he grants whatever he's with (tactical veterans) +1 WS, they wound 1 easier than normal due to being BA, then take day of revelations to get +1 init, and possibly furious charge. Ends up with them striking first, hitting on 3s or 4s, wounding on 2s. Yes, I was thinking about the synergies with the BA Legion rules as well. Blade of Perdition doesn't work though, since it's two-handed and the Herald is prohibited from taking two-handed weapons. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/320644-legion-herald-consul-usefulness-and-possible-army-builds/#findComment-4343009 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blindhamster Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 Oh damn. Missed that bit. A shame but I guess makes sense what with the banner and all lol Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/320644-legion-herald-consul-usefulness-and-possible-army-builds/#findComment-4343038 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 But hey you can take a two handed weapon on a bike right? ....Derp. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/320644-legion-herald-consul-usefulness-and-possible-army-builds/#findComment-4343066 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkimaskMohawk Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 Why is the loyalist version the only one being talked about? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/320644-legion-herald-consul-usefulness-and-possible-army-builds/#findComment-4343210 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown Legionnaire Posted March 22, 2016 Author Share Posted March 22, 2016 'cause I explicitly asked about a Loyalist Herald for inclusion in a Loyalist Legion (see original post). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/320644-legion-herald-consul-usefulness-and-possible-army-builds/#findComment-4343223 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinsanity Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 Pretty sure the Black Shields version could be useful, especially for the +S/T -Ld Chymeraes... It's such a significant decision, however, considering the shields are limited to a single Consul... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/320644-legion-herald-consul-usefulness-and-possible-army-builds/#findComment-4343311 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkimaskMohawk Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 'cause I explicitly asked about a Loyalist Herald for inclusion in a Loyalist Legion (see original post). So we're making individual threads for vanilla units based on loyalist or traitor now? Might want to rename your title as well if thats the case Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/320644-legion-herald-consul-usefulness-and-possible-army-builds/#findComment-4343332 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinsanity Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 'cause I explicitly asked about a Loyalist Herald for inclusion in a Loyalist Legion (see original post). So we're making individual threads for vanilla units based on loyalist or traitor now? Might want to rename your title as well if thats the case I think you're missing the point... The only reason discussion was, so far, limited to loyalist heralds is because noone has brought up the subject of other versions yet. Considering the thread purpose, as long as people discuss heralds of any flavor, where's the harm? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/320644-legion-herald-consul-usefulness-and-possible-army-builds/#findComment-4343417 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkimaskMohawk Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 'cause I explicitly asked about a Loyalist Herald for inclusion in a Loyalist Legion (see original post). So we're making individual threads for vanilla units based on loyalist or traitor now? Might want to rename your title as well if thats the case I think you're missing the point... The only reason discussion was, so far, limited to loyalist heralds is because noone has brought up the subject of other versions yet. Considering the thread purpose, as long as people discuss heralds of any flavor, where's the harm? A likely misinterpretation, if thats so then theres no problem Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/320644-legion-herald-consul-usefulness-and-possible-army-builds/#findComment-4343420 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Asvaldir Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 Well I'm going to bring up the traitor version if no one minds.. Traitor herald seems overall worse to me, since the reroll bonus only works on the turn you charge. However, for assault oriented legions like night lords, sons of horus, emperor's children and world eaters I think he could be a great fit. The traitor version is also never useless like his loyalist counterpart-all those ws5 units like command squads, phoenix/justerian terminators and raptors all still benefit. Just throw him in a transport of some kind to get in range for assault units, maybe in a dreaclaw with 9 veterans or a spartan with any sort of assault unit. I'm particularly interested in trying him out with terror assault, throw the herald in a spartan with some terminators and move up to buff terror squads as well as the terminators. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/320644-legion-herald-consul-usefulness-and-possible-army-builds/#findComment-4343543 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkimaskMohawk Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 I'm not too sure if the herald is good with terror assault as terror marines almost always get to reroll 1s to hit anyways Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/320644-legion-herald-consul-usefulness-and-possible-army-builds/#findComment-4343595 Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackoption Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 I could see Traitor Heralds being effective in the sacrificial offer rite. Especially since the whole premise of that rite is to use the mortal force as bait. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/320644-legion-herald-consul-usefulness-and-possible-army-builds/#findComment-4343643 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown Legionnaire Posted March 23, 2016 Author Share Posted March 23, 2016 Yup, both the Traitor Herald as well as the Blackshields one seem to be more useful than the Loyalist version ... that's why I'm struggling hard to find a potential use for one. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/320644-legion-herald-consul-usefulness-and-possible-army-builds/#findComment-4344055 Share on other sites More sharing options...
God-Potato of Mankind Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 Herald is worthless for World Eaters. They already get the buffs inherent in their Legion rules or through HQs or RoWs. I know they get re-rolls to 1 on hits, but I can't remember if they kept unstoppable tide? That one gave you re-rolls on charge rolls of 1. So yeah expensive consul that will provide no real benefit to a World Eaters unit. Derp. Sons of Horus might find more use, as will Emperor's Children. I don't know their rules well enough to say. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/320644-legion-herald-consul-usefulness-and-possible-army-builds/#findComment-4344103 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Asvaldir Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 I'm not too sure if the herald is good with terror assault as terror marines almost always get to reroll 1s to hit anyways Good point, not helpful for terror squads at all then. Perhaps in a non terror assault list it could find more use. I'd love to run him with a horror cult list, but no jump pack or bike is an issue. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/320644-legion-herald-consul-usefulness-and-possible-army-builds/#findComment-4344164 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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