matrent89 Posted March 28, 2016 Share Posted March 28, 2016 I seek assistance from my fellow Magos, I played a game last night where a seer council was sitting in a ruin with night fight up and shrouded, I shot at the unit with my vanguard with an omnispex and my opponent argued that he would still receive a 2+ save since the ruins was a 4+ save and the stealth shrouded gave him +3 so it would ignore my -1. What are you thoughts and like all good loyal constructs of the omnissah please reinforce with logic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aethyran Posted March 28, 2016 Share Posted March 28, 2016 Thats right -1 cover so 3+ is correct. Hope you destroyed that filthy xenos tech! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trokair Posted March 28, 2016 Share Posted March 28, 2016 Actually I think the question matrent89 is asking is does the combination of stealth (+1) and shrouded (+2) in a ruin (for starting save of 4+) give a save of 2+ or 1+. The former would then be reduced to a 3+ by the Omnispex, while the latter would be reduced to a 2+. I don't know the answer as unlike armour saves the rules don't say that it can not be better than a 2+, just that a roll of one is always a fail. I am inclined to say that it would be a 2+ after the Omispex, sadly. It depends on if a cover save is caped at 2+ like armour and invulnerable saves are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoGuy Posted March 28, 2016 Share Posted March 28, 2016 I am inclined to say that it would be a 2+ after the Omispex, sadly. It depends on if a cover save is caped at 2+ like armour and invulnerable saves are. Since it doesn't say that it is capped in the rulebook, it is uncapped, thus it can be upgraded to a 1+ or -3 etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HackedDuck Posted March 28, 2016 Share Posted March 28, 2016 I think it should be played as being made to a 3+ cover save even though rules as written would say it would be a 2+. Maybe you should put it on the GW FAQ on Facebook or email frontline gaming and see what they say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoGuy Posted March 28, 2016 Share Posted March 28, 2016 Situations such as this always depend on one's opponent. If he is a true sport, he'll probably just roll with it. Otherwise RAW are the way to go, at least I would play it like that (but I'm also not a big fan of the "rule x could be intended as this and if you don't go with it, you are a tryhard"-pressure thingy). But there are also exceptions to this like the ridiculous "if my model has a toe in BTB contact with this ruin, it has 4+ cover" that 40K has going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dread0 Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 My local group play that minus to cover is applied after the cover save is calculated and the cover save is capped at a max of 2+. So for example the Farseer council would get a 2+ cover- ruins (4+) , steath (3+) + shrouded (2+ capped) combining together. Then the unit fires with -1 to cover resulting in a 3+ cover even if the extra from shrouded would take this back to a 2+. This is just how we play but it makes the most sense IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeStinyFiSh Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 My local group play that minus to cover is applied after the cover save is calculated and the cover save is capped at a max of 2+. So for example the Farseer council would get a 2+ cover- ruins (4+) , steath (3+) + shrouded (2+ capped) combining together. Then the unit fires with -1 to cover resulting in a 3+ cover even if the extra from shrouded would take this back to a 2+. This is just how we play but it makes the most sense IMHO. That is what feels right IMHO as well, but I don't know what the rules exactly say... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matrent89 Posted March 30, 2016 Author Share Posted March 30, 2016 My opponent argued that on page 8 it says all modifiers happen at the same time so it would be 4 (Ruins) -2 (Shrouded) -1 (Stealth) +1 (Omnispex) making it still a 2+ save. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagicHat Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 I would agree with your opponent and play it that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misterkho Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 Eldar trickery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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