Can Blood Angels still compete?

[Indefragable]

Then the Leviathan Dread is for you my friend!

 

Yea, I have considered the Deredeo for a little bit, since it's such a well-rounded beast and it's AA capabilities are phenomenal (thanks, LutherMax!) , but ultimately I have to terms that I prefer a very high-speed, low-drag playstyle with my BA, so I'll probably stay away from anything that can not rapidly get into harm's way. 

[Charlo]

Not a Deredeo!

 

A LEVIATHAN SIEGE DREADNOUGHT.

 

You can put it in a dread pod and with the new CYCLONIC MELTA LANCE it's basically our dream come true.

[Demoulius]

Well id love to get a knight, sadly I dont got the funds. Im unemployed and currently only gain income from social welfare so eh...fat chance that il have money to get one anytime soon Incidentily also the reason why I havent played in ages cant afford to travel to my local GW to much....

Those problems aside I guess il have to look into doing 'several org charts' lists. It does free up Sang Priests abit

I personally love the datasheet in the normal book that gives us +1I on the charge. It takes me back to ye olden days when a charge from the blood angels was a thing people rightly feared ^_^ and it sets us apart as more then beeing loyalist khorne beserkers :D

Some more list focused question I guess...

-Should I make well rounded lists or always assume my opponent is bringing monstrous creatures/super heavies? Assault marines can take care off hordes well enough.

-Right before I had to quit gaming fliers were making an introduction and were beeing all-round pests. Ignoring them and leaving them for last worked well enough but I had no clear anwser to them. Should I bring a quad gun to deal with them?

-Librarian, yes or no? Now that our captains can be nicely tooled and that theres a psychic phase im leaning towards taking a captain over a Liby. The liby would be more utility I guess but the Captain makes a better warlord and can be better tooled for combat.

Back when I played my lists tended to run around Priests buffing several units at once but thats been taken away as an option. I also had my liby flying around buffing other units with rerolls and whatnot. I dont think thats viable play anymore and think I need to think of something new...

[Charlo]

Well id love to get a knight, sadly I dont got the funds. Im unemployed and currently only gain income from social welfare so eh...fat chance that il have money to get one anytime soon Incidentily also the reason why I havent played in ages cant afford to travel to my local GW to much....

Those problems aside I guess il have to look into doing 'several org charts' lists. It does free up Sang Priests abit

I personally love the datasheet in the normal book that gives us +1I on the charge. It takes me back to ye olden days when a charge from the blood angels was a thing people rightly feared and it sets us apart as more then beeing loyalist khorne beserkers

Some more list focused question I guess...

-Should I make well rounded lists or always assume my opponent is bringing monstrous creatures/super heavies? Assault marines can take care off hordes well enough.

Well rounded, or at least until you learn your local meta. If players in your area have a tendancy to run a load of super heavies then bring counters, or if they like waves of dudes bring more heavy bolters. You'll slowly refine your list to a good place through games :D

-Right before I had to quit gaming fliers were making an introduction and were beeing all-round pests. Ignoring them and leaving them for last worked well enough but I had no clear anwser to them. Should I bring a quad gun to deal with them?

Bring an answer to them, but don't make it too expensive or solely for them. Quad gun is a good deterrant for sure. SM flyers are rather awesome, with a bit of reserves manipulation the Storm Raven can come on after enemy flyers then murder them with Assault Cannons/ Multi Meltas/ Missiles

-Librarian, yes or no? Now that our captains can be nicely tooled and that theres a psychic phase im leaning towards taking a captain over a Liby. The liby would be more utility I guess but the Captain makes a better warlord and can be better tooled for combat.

If you want a dude to bash faces in and Dante is too expenive, bring a captain. BUT a Librarian can improve the army overall. Divination will make devastators even better, or Sanguinary (our own discipline) has a variety of useful spells, there is seldom a bad roll on it - not to mention the +D3 A/I primaris!

Special Mention for using Mephiston with Biomancy for a chance at a daemon prince equivalent.

Back when I played my lists tended to run around Priests buffing several units at once but thats been taken away as an option. I also had my liby flying around buffing other units with rerolls and whatnot. I dont think thats viable play anymore and think I need to think of something new...

[Indefragable]

Well id love to get a knight, sadly I dont got the funds. Im unemployed and currently only gain income from social welfare so eh...fat chance that il have money to get one anytime soon Incidentily also the reason why I havent played in ages cant afford to travel to my local GW to much....

Those problems aside I guess il have to look into doing 'several org charts' lists. It does free up Sang Priests abit

I personally love the datasheet in the normal book that gives us +1I on the charge. It takes me back to ye olden days when a charge from the blood angels was a thing people rightly feared and it sets us apart as more then beeing loyalist khorne beserkers

Some more list focused question I guess...

-Should I make well rounded lists or always assume my opponent is bringing monstrous creatures/super heavies? Assault marines can take care off hordes well enough.

Well rounded, or at least until you learn your local meta. If players in your area have a tendancy to run a load of super heavies then bring counters, or if they like waves of dudes bring more heavy bolters. You'll slowly refine your list to a good place through games

-Right before I had to quit gaming fliers were making an introduction and were beeing all-round pests. Ignoring them and leaving them for last worked well enough but I had no clear anwser to them. Should I bring a quad gun to deal with them?

Bring an answer to them, but don't make it too expensive or solely for them. Quad gun is a good deterrant for sure. SM flyers are rather awesome, with a bit of reserves manipulation the Storm Raven can come on after enemy flyers then murder them with Assault Cannons/ Multi Meltas/ Missiles

-Librarian, yes or no? Now that our captains can be nicely tooled and that theres a psychic phase im leaning towards taking a captain over a Liby. The liby would be more utility I guess but the Captain makes a better warlord and can be better tooled for combat.

If you want a dude to bash faces in and Dante is too expenive, bring a captain. BUT a Librarian can improve the army overall. Divination will make devastators even better, or Sanguinary (our own discipline) has a variety of useful spells, there is seldom a bad roll on it - not to mention the +D3 A/I primaris!

Special Mention for using Mephiston with Biomancy for a chance at a daemon prince equivalent.

Back when I played my lists tended to run around Priests buffing several units at once but thats been taken away as an option. I also had my liby flying around buffing other units with rerolls and whatnot. I dont think thats viable play anymore and think I need to think of something new...

I second what Charlo is saying. My additional $0.02:

-The "Take All Comers" (TAC) list is sort of a Holy Grail in this game: what almost everyone aspires to but you never quite feel you've found the right one. I would stick with the units you know and love, then find ways to augment them based on whatever you regularly see at your meta. Try to stay away from hard-counters, as they tend to be too niche to rely on in all circumstances. I.e. Plasma is great against Terminators, but Melta not only is amazing against armor, but still works against Terminators AND let's you Charge afterwards so it can also work against any infantry unit in the game. I recommend using the same exact list at least 3 times in a row before making any major changes. The worst thing you can do is have knee-jerk reactions based on what you faced in a single game (guilty as charged here, learn from my mistake!), run out, buy all sorts of hard counters, then go up against something else, run out and buy hard counters to that, etc... It's better to learn the pros and cons of whatever you bring inside-and-out then try to list-build your way out of every problem.

-Flyers tend to only be a problem when you are not prepared for them. And sometimes all you need is mental preparation, i.e. a Helldrake with it's AP3 flamer is useless if most of your 3+ Infantry is locked in combat, so go all-out on the Charging as early as possible. So on/so forth. Likewise, for all-rounder purposes, having a source of Prescience (Primaris power from the Divination Psychic table) or Twin Linked (such as the main turret on a Predator) can be great as well. More often than not, forcing an enemy Flyer to Jink should be your goal more than really destroying them in a single turn. Unless you have multiple flyers of your own to dogfight 'em, of course.

-Generally speaking, I would lean towards LIbrarian. They offer more utility and enhance your army overall. Captains can be amazing beatsticks, BUT, you get what you pay for and to really make them worth it (IMO) you need to dump points into them jacking their cost up to 175pts or so. And you know who else costs 175pts? Mephiston. Which is the other reason I lean towards Librarians: we have no shortage of amazing named characters that can hold their own, and often provide X-factors you can't get anywhere else (Dante, Mephiston, Astorath, Corbulo). So for me, if you using a generic HQ, then it's probably for points-savings, in which case a Librarian tends to be the most value overall. A ML2 Librarian with a jump pack is 105pts. Throwing out Quickening or Unleash Rage to nearby units? That's some fire sale pricing right there. And the Libby is no slouch, either: he's not going to win any challenges, but he can beat faces with a Force weapon at I5 in the BSF. Now, if for modeling or fluff reasons you prefer a generic Captain, then go for it. They can enhance it by being solid combat characters. But with my theme, here just make sure you have a plan/reason for bringing him: they are rather pricey just for filling a HQ requirement. Personally, I definitely lean towards Librarian or Sanguinary Priest for HQ unless there is a specific reason you want a Captain instead of a named beatstick.

Good Captain configuration:

--Artificer Armor

--Storm Shield

--The Angel's Wing or Bike

--Thunder Hammer or Valor's Edge

= ~ 175pts

[dakkamasta]

In addition to Indefragable's advice of HQ selection, I think the humble Chaplain should not be overlooked. If you're using a fair amount of Death Company a Chaplain is an excellent force multiplier similarly to the Librarian and almost identical in points. He's more survivable as a warlord than the libby due to having a 4+ invul. and not needing to worry about potential perils from casting psychic powers. I always throw the veritas vitae on him since it's pretty silly not to. The other big plus of a chaplain is if you're running forgeworld units, he will unlock multiple relics of the armoury so you can enjoy fielding a Sicaran, Whirlwind Scorpius and a Fire raptor all in a single detachment for the pinnacle if space marine fire support.

[ThatOneMarshal]

As someone else whose been wanting to get back into Blood Angels I was wondering as to what is considered a good basis for a list for us? I was planning on using plenty forgeworld that I'm sharing with my heresy army so a chaplain is probalby needed. Is the Baal Strike Force still the best way to go? Can mass jump pack army do well? Are we stuck in a mono build like a lot of codexes nowadays? 

[NTaW]

A Chaplain is usually a good idea since you'll invariably want to play some Death Company as well as use those fancy FW toys. There's a few different ways to play them, I've had success with heavily mechanized lists as well as jump oriented lists. Pretty much always using the Baal Strike Force.

[Indefragable]

As someone else whose been wanting to get back into Blood Angels I was wondering as to what is considered a good basis for a list for us? I was planning on using plenty forgeworld that I'm sharing with my heresy army so a chaplain is probalby needed. Is the Baal Strike Force still the best way to go? Can mass jump pack army do well? Are we stuck in a mono build like a lot of codexes nowadays? 

 

"Good basis" = whatever you have fun playing. 

 

I mean that honestly, since BA are pretty far behind the times compared to all the stackable Decurion bonuses most other forces have these days. I would say find whatever BA units really "do it for you" and build a list around that. At least you will have fun, even if you get clobbered. It's just plain tough going up against 500pts of Free Drop Pods and transports. 

 

This might sound like a cop -out, but you really just have to find what you think are the strengths of BA and optimize your lists around those elements. 

 

I am biased towards Death Company, since they are the most efficient unit in the Codex, IMO. I go either MSU (5x, Jump Packs, Bolters, 1x Power Fist, 1x Power Sword as points allow) for harassing/kiting/double-tapping-before-Charging, or a Deathstar w/ Astorath (15x, Jump Packs, 4x Power Fists, Bolt Pistols). Anything in between is an ineffective Compromise. 

 

Personally, I have come to find Death Company and Fast tri-las Preds to be the lynchpins of my forces. Cheap Meltacide ASM would be second place. Dante is 3rd. 

[Dont-Be-Haten]

The Renegade box set REALLY helps you get a couple of knights. I just bought the renegade box and 1 of the alternate variants because I wanted the extra goodies for a bit more flavor even though it cost more. Now I'm just trying to decide how I want to ally them into my list. Hell 2 Renegade boxes gives you 4 knights and terrain for less than the cost of 3 knights by themselves. Gerantius is looking better and better as a free blade ally!

If you followed the Las Vegas Open at all Blood Angels faired well, granted we were mostly as allies, and this was before the FAQ first draft, but some Majority BA with splashed in allies have done well.

Our best allies are still Codex: Space Marines with Ultramarine chapter tactics for Tigerius and devastator centurions, or white scars with the Hunter's eye-relic. Or the Imperial Knights to REALLY cover our weaknesses. However, with the new flyers, we can take a wing of AA as Blood Angels, those storm hawks are damned dakka-ee to boot.

But I feel like with the new FAQs and psychic power upgrades we have some really fine strengths that can bring us back to a more competitive scene. I'm not saying we're going to be Super Friends good, or Were-Wolves and Dark Angels good, but we will be fine!

[Frater Antodeniel]

But I feel like with the new FAQs and psychic power upgrades we have some really fine strengths that can bring us back to a more competitive scene. I'm not saying we're going to be Super Friends good, or Were-Wolves and Dark Angels, but we will be fine!

 

You make me laugh, and it is a feat in itself. (To be more precise, it would be : "Space Psychotic Catholic Vampire".)

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

On a more Constructive though, i add a reversible list (1500+) that work with (White Scars Detachment/formation/rules, or Blood Angels/Flesh Tearers as well) :

 

1 - Strike Force Command :

===> 1 Big HQ (Either choose Seth and equip the say "captain" with the Glaive of Vengeance relic, or the teeth of terra. (But you can totally go and use Dante, use your mind+imagination.)

 

2 - Stormlance Battle Demi-Company

===> Kor'Sarro Khan (Furious Charge+Scouts rhino), a regular BA guy without Jump Pack^^.(But you can also pick a captain tycho and follow his "look" to choose his weapons/wargear, and give that Tycho the hunter eyes....)

===> 1 Command Squad, with the Eagle Banner (Furious Charge^^) + Razorback. A regular BA squad without Jump Pack :s. (Do not forget to magnet the Backpack....for future uses)

===> 3*5 Tactical + 3*razorback (Choose to equip the Sergeant with Plasma, but you can also pretend that the Inferno pistol is a Plasma one...use your imagination)

===> 1*10 Assault Squad (With or Without jump pack, so once again, magnets are welcome...)

===> 1*5 Devastator Squad + Razorback.

 

3 - Stormbringer Squadron

===> 1*5 Scouts Squad

===> 1*1 Land Speeder

[Dont-Be-Haten]

 

But I feel like with the new FAQs and psychic power upgrades we have some really fine strengths that can bring us back to a more competitive scene. I'm not saying we're going to be Super Friends good, or Were-Wolves and Dark Angels good, but we will be fine!

 

You make me laugh, and it is a feat in itself. (To be more precise, it would be : "Space Psychotic Catholic Vampire".)

 

Dark Angels Mate, I was referring to Dark Angels.

 

Unless in the First Drafts for our chapters that don't have "Chapter Tactics" but counts as having them, i.e. BA, SW, DA, GKs are treated in the same way as C:SM; then otherwise, the death stars of Space Wolves and Ravenwing will flourish again is what I meant. 2+ rerollable jink saves on two chapters that are best friends by rules, but rivals by lore, is what I was referring to.

 

[ThatOneMarshal]

I'm intrigued by the idea of using allies and I definetly feel like we need them to be useable. For example sky hammer can be really good and it synergies pretty well with us.

 

I like the idea of using an imperial knight, as I have recently bought one. Any idea what's the best load out for them?

[Iduddy]

For all the gripping on this page, no codex has ever gotten more shafted than CSM. Does it suck that as soon as BA got their codex that SM got all the fun toys? Yes, however as soon as CSM got released within a month a codex was released with nothing but anti-CSM toys and rules, and that was followed by things like the Tau and Eldar. There hasn't been a worthwhile codex for CSM since 2003, and they are the supposed poster boys of the bad guys.

 

TL:DR while not and upper tier codex, BA are not CSM levels of screwed over.

[appiah4]

For all the gripping on this page, no codex has ever gotten more shafted than CSM. Does it suck that as soon as BA got their codex that SM got all the fun toys? Yes, however as soon as CSM got released within a month a codex was released with nothing but anti-CSM toys and rules, and that was followed by things like the Tau and Eldar. There hasn't been a worthwhile codex for CSM since 2003, and they are the supposed poster boys of the bad guys.

 

TL:DR while not and upper tier codex, BA are not CSM levels of screwed over.

 

What?  Seriously, WHAT?  What is there out there that :cusss over CSM but not BA?  Nothing.  And the BA are further handicapped by an older codex with less options.  How the hell does your reasoning even work?  Do Tau and Eldar have Anti-CSM guns that don't work on BA that I do not know of or something?  I want some of what you are smoking.  Good stuff my man.

[Iduddy]

 

 

For all the gripping on this page, no codex has ever gotten more shafted than CSM. Does it suck that as soon as BA got their codex that SM got all the fun toys? Yes, however as soon as CSM got released within a month a codex was released with nothing but anti-CSM toys and rules, and that was followed by things like the Tau and Eldar. There hasn't been a worthwhile codex for CSM since 2003, and they are the supposed poster boys of the bad guys.

 

TL:DR while not and upper tier codex, BA are not CSM levels of screwed over.

What? Seriously, WHAT? What is there out there that :cusss over CSM but not BA? Nothing. And the BA are further handicapped by an older codex with less options. How the hell does your reasoning even work? Do Tau and Eldar have Anti-CSM guns that don't work on BA that I do not know of or something? I want some of what you are smoking. Good stuff my man.

The Dark Angel codex was written loaded with anti-CSM rules.

[appiah4]

 

 

For all the gripping on this page, no codex has ever gotten more shafted than CSM. Does it suck that as soon as BA got their codex that SM got all the fun toys? Yes, however as soon as CSM got released within a month a codex was released with nothing but anti-CSM toys and rules, and that was followed by things like the Tau and Eldar. There hasn't been a worthwhile codex for CSM since 2003, and they are the supposed poster boys of the bad guys.

 

TL:DR while not and upper tier codex, BA are not CSM levels of screwed over.

What? Seriously, WHAT? What is there out there that :cusss over CSM but not BA? Nothing. And the BA are further handicapped by an older codex with less options. How the hell does your reasoning even work? Do Tau and Eldar have Anti-CSM guns that don't work on BA that I do not know of or something? I want some of what you are smoking. Good stuff my man.

The Dark Angel codex was written loaded with anti-CSM rules.

 

 

Like what?  What is in the DA codex that doesn't work against BA just as efficiently?

[ThatOneMarshal]

Hey guys let's all relax this ain't a contest to see whose army sucks the most (squats and sisters win). Let's all accept that we are all the way below in regards to our eldar, necron, and space marine overlords.

 

What I'm at least trying to figure out at te moment is specifically why we lag behind. Is it mostly due to not having all the updates that space marines have in regards to lack of formations and stat lines?

[appiah4]

Hey guys let's all relax this ain't a contest to see whose army sucks the most (squats and sisters win). Let's all accept that we are all the way below in regards to our eldar, necron, and space marine overlords.

 

What I'm at least trying to figure out at te moment is specifically why we lag behind. Is it mostly due to not having all the updates that space marines have in regards to lack of formations and stat lines?

 

Lack of a useful decurion, lack of good (actually the word you're looking for is ridiculously OP) formations, lack of updates on unit stats especially scouts and dreadnoughts, lack of viable AA, lack of a skyfire air unit and lack of grav centurions are the main reasons.

[Jolemai]

Whilst it's actually no effort to do, I'd rather avoid having to close this thread so can we discuss things like the gentlemen* that we are please?

 

* or lady if you prefer

 

There's no point hiding from the fact that our book has been left behind but we're not the only Faction that has been. As incredulous as it sounds, we don't actually have the worst Codex in the game so lets not bang on about how the world has ended and get to discussing the matter at hand:

 

As someone else whose been wanting to get back into Blood Angels I was wondering as to what is considered a good basis for a list for us? I was planning on using plenty forgeworld that I'm sharing with my heresy army so a chaplain is probalby needed. Is the Baal Strike Force still the best way to go? Can mass jump pack army do well? Are we stuck in a mono build like a lot of codexes nowadays? 

 

Debate it, answer it and let the thread evolve. Please refrain from Codex/Faction bashing and yes, that includes our own.

 

I've also edited a few posts where necessary.

[Dont-Be-Haten]

Whilst it's actually no effort to do, I'd rather avoid having to close this thread so can we discuss things like the gentlemen* that we are please?

 

* or lady if you prefer

 

There's no point hiding from the fact that our book has been left behind but we're not the only Faction that has been. As incredulous as it sounds, we don't actually have the worst Codex in the game so lets not bang on about how the world has ended and get to discussing the matter at hand:

 

Debate it, answer it and let the thread evolve. Please refrain from Codex/Faction bashing and yes, that includes our own.

 

I've also edited a few posts where necessary.

 

Yeah about that, the lads I play with always refer to Dark Angels as such, so that's the only way I know them. Wasn't meaning what I said in a demeaning light, and if offense was taken, apologies. That's the way my group refers to Dark Angels, so I just made the assumption most people referred to them as such.

 

Back on topic, ultimately it comes down to how you want to play your boys in red. I love mine, and while there are other better options, I have had to learn the strengths and weaknesses of the army and find ways to overcome that. Since I've been playing campaigns more than pick up games or the competitive scene, there has been a lot more leniency to list building. However, as I've recently gravitated more to the middle of pick up games and the like over the last year or so I've looked at more all comers lists and ways to work allies into my narrative. Plus there has been an arms race amongst a few of us lately, you all know how that goes if you play with a good club.

 

So the ways I look at C:BA is still all positive, and we can still play a very solid game as a mono chapter, and we make an amazing three tiered army in that right, but we also benefit from allies and fortifications to fill our lesser strengths.

 

As an example I wanted C:SM allies, but I wanted to play C:BA and because I love the centurions, so while it is a little beardy, I chose Carmine Blades, as they've only been Blood Angels for about 300-400 years, maybe less? And thus they still have access to the same gear as regular codex marines, and this links the struggle of identity for my personal vision of how they act and how they could be played.

 

Many of you know I'm more of the optimistic so,and I'm sorry for the long post, I'm just passionate about C:BA much like many of you are, its just not all doom and gloom, I promise.

 

I'm also not going to play the bloke at locals that runs 5 wraith knights and all the jetbikes in an 1850 list either, and yes, there is a guy that has brought that exact list. Unless I agree to it before hand, and know what I'm getting into, I'm not going to play a super powered list, just because that's not what "friendly" games are meant for in my opinion.

 

Now if I play in a tournament I'm going to know there's a lot of Death Stars and it's going to be a much harder game both tactically and codex wise, but that's why we come to this sub-forum is it not? I've read some your reasons as to why you play BA, and that's why I enjoy coming here rather than some of the other places.

[NTaW]

Like what? What is in the DA codex that doesn't work against BA just as efficiently?

The Deathwing special rule confers Hatred: CSM and the Bane of the Traitor rule which increases a weapon's AP by 1 when attacking units with the CSM Faction. I mean, I get where you're coming from, but there are rules in the DA Codex that (rightfully so) make them more effective against CSM than anyone else. It's like they really hate them for some weird reason...

As for the topic at hand I think that the competitiveness of any Codex is more defined by your knowledge of your army, your collection of models, and the meta you play in. Are BA a lower tier army in the grand circuit of tournaments and general 40k rule shenanigans? Absolutely. Does every opponent I ever face cringe when I play Dante with any unit, my pair of Fragioso Dreadnoughts, my Death Company, or when I charge in attacking at I5? Every time What's that meme I see floating around the internet every now and again..."before you diagnose yourself with depression (or rage at an inferior Codex in our circumstances), first make sure you're not entirely surrounded by jerks (adjective toned down, more appropriately here WAAC players)".

[Frater Antodeniel]

Instead of Comparing Blood Angels to Dark Angels, that possess two very different style of warfare, i prefer compare what is comparable. So i compare prefer compare Blood Angels with White Scars, the two being Assault Forces. So lets start with what the White Scars force possess.

 

White Scars benefits (Chapters Tactics + Detachments benefits) :

 

- Hit and Run + Reroll on dice for Run

- Skilled Rider (+1 to jink and ignore difficult terrain test) + +1 Strenght for Hammer of Wrath Attacks

 

- Reroll Failed Initiative Test for Hit and Run

- Bike move +1D6 and Speeders Flat Out +1D6. Fast Vehicle and Flyers move +2D6

- Units gains Hammer of Wrath if their Charge Roll >/=8

 

Those are fitting advantage for an Assault Army, one that will be hard to rival.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Blood Angels Benefits :

 

- Furious Charge

 

- +1 Initiative on Charge (BA Detachment)

- Rage if Charge Roll >/=10 (FT Detachment)

 

Currently, Blood Angels Advantage is near to nothing compared with the White Scars one (Plus, note that Bike provide +1 Toughness).

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Now, My opinion to what BA should look like, to rival the White Scars :

 

- Furious Charge + Fleet

- Jump pack units, ignore difficult terrain test (+/or) Scatter 1D6 less when DeepStrike

- +1 Initiative on Charge

 

- Rhino, Razorback, Land Speeders, and Baal Predator have the Skilled Rider Special rule, or at least, ignore difficult terrain. (Blood Angels mastery of their Fast Vehicles)

- Units gains Rage if their Charge Roll >/=8

 

This way, it would seem reasonable, while not copy/paste WS or RG chapter tactics.

[Damon Nightman]

Wow do white scars really get all those Benefits? I need to stop looking at other chapters rules, it makes me sad...

[Charlo]

TL:DR - Chaos are all scared to death of DA ;)

 

But yeah - Scars in particular get a metric tonne of buffs. It's kind of silly.

 

Personally though I think we can still compete - sure we don't get formations as easy, but we are also not limited by them.

 

You don't have to look far on the boards to see people moaning that they can't take Forgeworld units in their army because they run a Gladius.