Questions on the Imperial FIsts.

[Rommel44]

Hey mates. Always have been a huge fan of the Imperial Fists and what they accomplished during the Horus Heresy, and as it stands I am seriously considering fielding an army of them to run in both 30k and 40k (other choices are between the Raven Guard and Luna Wolves). For 30k, the Imperial Fists have solid Special Rules, field an awesome CC Unit in the Templar Brethren, and also apparently can field some of the best Terminators in the game, as well as field am Army of Breacher Marines if one decided to do so. With that being said, while 30k isn’t very popular in my area atm, I still would like to try and eventually gather an army and to do so I would appreciate as much help as possible. To start things off:

 

* Is the Imperial Fists Breacher Marine Formation worth fielding or would I be better off running something standard? From what I have seen, while they are tough and get HOW attacks due to the shields, they are very expensive for what they do and I doubt it is worth the cost in points.

 

* Mainly leaning the Imperial Fists due to the Templar Brethern, and when it comes to these guys, has anyone tried to field an Army of them? Or are these guys best suited for a One Squad of Doom with Sigismund?

 

* Are Terminator Lists possible in Horus Heresy? If so, I heard Imperial Fists have some of the Best in the game and what would be a very good way to utilize that if possible?

 

Appreciate any feedback you guys can give me so just let me know any tactical advice and your opinions and we can take it from there.

[Ironwithout]

Ok here is my experience.

 

• breacher marines are awesome and the Stone Gauntlet RoW is wicked! Seriously tough breachers can be a pain to deal with. The reality is though they are too expensive and you would do better with tactical marines. Once you get to larger points levels and people drop Medusas and Typhons the toughness of your troops rarely matters..... they are going to die.

 

• I think a Templar army could work much like a World Eater army would work. Land Raiders would be your friend. I think it would be a hard list to build and a hard army to play with and win.

 

•This one is challenging. So IF termies can be T5 and given Storm Shields which is insane. Give them a Primus medicae and laugh at everyone. The problem with this is to get T5 you need to run Stone Gauntlet RoW so you need breachers. This is ridiculously expensive and this is the problem. This stuff works in ZM but honestly with the points you invest its not worth it. You can however just give them SS and power weapons and a Land Raider. Would be cool in a Templar army

[DimDim]

Cant really touch on the breachers as I only have 10 (for the cools) and no experience but on the point of the 10 man sigi templar squad, I, and by extension (unfortunatly for them) my friends do.

 

Long story short, out of an assault boat (spartan, raider, or a stormeagle) they wreck the face of most they encounter.

 

So glorious. Sigi does what sigi does best and absolutely cuts down anyone in a challenge, while all that ap3 + some thunder hammers for support can rip a squad to pieces including those units your opponent had thought to bog you down with.

[lionofjudah]

I like the Sigi + terminator's with an assault cannon and 3/4 dudes with storm shields cause we can with a termi wearing primaris medicae in a spartan for the real realz LOLZ of FNP + Spartan + why not. Is a HUGE points investment but you get sigi wrecking face over everyone in HTH and the termi's wrecking just about everything else. The brethren are great for lots of stuffs but the reality is they struggle against ... termis... Considering most big baddy dudes sigi is going to roll up against are surrounded with bodyguards rocking the 2+ its always fun to show up to the party with some cats who can match, set, winz the day.

Fists are the bomb...painting all the glorious yellow, bolters hitting for sure, Polux and dudes with shields, I mean...we are awesome!

[Ishagu]

Imperial Fist Termies are awesome in the Heresy as they can deepstrike.

 

They can all take Combi Weapons, so 5 With plasmas and Cataphractii armour coming down in pretty deadly.

[Phalanx Warder]

(Cracks neck) Ok. 

 

Breachers: I am a little bias as I have 40 of them and another 20 on the way. I like them specially in a GoS list, but they have uses outside of that RoW. 40 shrouded Breachers materializing in your back field all tooled up is nothing to scoff at. They are a serious threat in Zone Mortalis but also a massive point tax, Zone Mortalis shields them from the high strength stuff a little bit and the +1 BS bolters brings home more hits so for me in ZM a tactical squad has a ton less value. They can carry special weapons and you can give each and everyone of them a Melta Bomb. 20 breachers charging out of a Spartan with 20 MB's will kill just about everything in the game that has an AV in a single round of assault, but kiss them good bye after that.

 

Terminators: They are what they say on the box... Terminators, we can deepstrike ours and give them a 3++ in the form of storm shields and assault cannons, that make them quite possibly the best terminators around IMHO. In the Stone Gauntlet RoW the shield equipped ones become T5 so they become a problem to deal with, they shine in ZM. You can do Terminator only lists if you so choose but the same things apply the them as to Breachers....... High points Tax and low body count. 

 

Templar Brethren: They rock! but I do not think that an entire army of them will do too well, they are pricey and you are going to want to give them assault transports that balloon the price even more. I would like to see an army of Templar's on the table though!

 

Hope that helps and the VIIth welcomes you!

[Ishagu]

Once Dorn comes out you should get him. Great budget Primarch :-D

[Slips]

Yes, Dorn is a great Primarch and, along with Fulgrim, possibly one of the better Candidates for the Primarchs Chosen RoW due to his cost not being 400+

 

His armywide benefits are also very useful:

• Armywide LD10 so long as he's on the board
• Buffs 3 Cover-Granting locations to re-roll 1s to cover and pinning tests
• Armywide +D3 to combat resolution which means you auto-win ties in most cases.
• Can get up to 9 Attacks on the Charge with Rampage and Reaping Blow at S6 Ap2 Shred -1Initiative OR Half as many attacks at S8 Ap2 Instant Death, Shred, -1Initiative.
• Has Furious Charge and Crusader meaning he goes up to S7 or S9 on a charge with his weapon profiles and due to being I5, with crusader, can sweep even Initiative 8 opponents.
• Surprisingly Tough with 2+/4++ and only ever being wounded on a 3+
• WS8 means that in CC hes also a decent combatant. Can get to WS9 when charged and accompanied by Phalanx Warders for extra hilarity.

But in general, the Imperial Fists have no real downside to their Legion Rules and are pretty flexible in what they can do theres nothing stopping or limiting you in what you can field/play/model under the Imperial Fists.

 

Tempalrs are Great. Furious Charge, 4A Each on the Charge, Power Swords, WS5, 2+/5++ in CC and squad wide melta bombs makes for a decent combat unit that wont get slowed down by a dreadnought or MC. Best used to mulch MEQ or Weaker what with 40 Attacks at 10 Men at S5 Ap3 on the charge.

 

Phalanx Warders are ok enough. They're kinda like Reverse Templar. They can take Power Axes and 1in5 Plasma Guns or Thunderhammers, have 3+/6++(shooting) or 5++ (CC), Defensive Grenades (bye bye charge bonuses) and +1WS when Charged. They have a bit more punch than Normal Breachers but are definitely not a dedicated offensive combat unit. Having used them, while expensive to start with, are surprisingly good at tanking a charge and coming out on top. Bonus points if Dorn is out and about for +d3 to combat resolution. Sweep an enemy on their turn!

 

Tartaros w/ Storm Shields and whatever weapons you can afford are one of the better Beatstick or Primarch Bodyguards; 2+/3++ and can Sweep. They do cost a ton in points though.

 

Buuuuuuutttt, having had a Squad of 10 + Primus Medicae + Dorn + Librarian (who really didnt do anything) tank ~100+ Wounds from 6 Rapiers Shelling them with Frag Shells (after their Spartan Blew up), 80 Bolter Shots from 2 20man Iron Warriors Tac Squads, survive the charge and go on to sweep both squads?

 

Wonderful. I will say though that without the Primus Medicae giving them all FNP 5+, they would have died a long time ago. Thankfully, the Iron Warriors Typhon that was present died the turn prior and they had no other massed Ap2 Shooting.

 

We also have the best Sniper Tac Vets squads because of BS5. So thats nice.

[MakoBoy88]

Having now played about 6 games with my fists, I have to say I am loving them more and more.

 

My average list is a Stone Gauntlet RoW and either uses Phalanx Warders with Polux, or Polux with Terminators. I mix up.

 

Both have performed really well and have survived more than they have any right to. But some words of warning.

 

The Termies with SS, for the 3++ will just get mauled by mass bolter Fire, as that's easier to pepper and swarm in wounds and then they will die. So make sure to only open them up at the right time. And phalanx Warders are good, but if they fight s unit with a few power weapons it's bye bye.

 

My next purchase will be some Templar and Siggy, as I was so caught up on Polux love when I bought the army (and being one of the few people in my local county who use him and not Sigismund) makes for a better narrative. But I have seen Sigismund, 10 Templar Brethren and Garrow Storm their way through Justaerin and Horus before.

 

Oh and if you want to do Terminators etc, and you go Pride of the Legion, remember as Slips said Sniper Vets are some of the best things in the game at killing elite infantry

[Hellrender]

What is the opinion on Legion Terminators with volkite chargers for IF? I'm considering such a squad, but i do lose out on the bolter bonus, so i wonder if it's worth it.

[Elzender]

What is the opinion on Legion Terminators with volkite chargers for IF? I'm considering such a squad, but i do lose out on the bolter bonus, so i wonder if it's worth it.

 

 Not a tactics expert, but I guess that while a valid option, maybe it is "wasting" the special additions that make them stand out: the BS5  and the use of storm shields. Then again, the combibolter being TL makes the bonus not that relevant, and with combiweapons I think it only applies to the bolter part, which you probably won't use that much (you probably want your termies punching stuff after the round of combi fire).

 

On the other hand, deepstriking a squad of choom next to some infrantry and toast them can be a funny thing to do, though you expose your unit to a charge next turn due to the cargers short range. If you're gonna roll them on a LR/Spartan, it could be nice to soften a tough unit before charging it. Let's see if there is somebody who has used them and can give some actual experience with them.

[Caustic63]

What is the opinion on Legion Terminators with volkite chargers for IF? I'm considering such a squad, but i do lose out on the bolter bonus, so i wonder if it's worth it.

 

I would always go with Combi-weapons on Terminators if I wanted versatility (as opposed to Close Combat supremecy where a Storm Shield makes more sense), especially with Imperial Fists because they have Teleportation and the bolter bonus. The Combi-weapon/Power Weapon combo on Terminators is not one that normal Space Marine players are used to, but I know its effectiveness from the times I've used it as Chaos. 

[Slips]

If youre wanting to deepstrike 10 Chargers on Cataphractii vs a Target thats succeptible to S5 Ap5 then go for it.

 

Otherwise, go for 10 Combi-Plasma for the same cost.

[Hellrender]

I want to make 2 terminator squads (Not sure if i will go IF until i have test painted something, but IF seem to be able to field most units comfortably, without feeling of penalty). One cataphractii squad with PW/Guns, and one with Tartaros and stormshields (most likely plus TH so i can use it in 40k too). However, i really really want some volkite. Terminators deep striking in next to a nuncio vox seemed like an idea. :P

 

If not on those TDA, what do you IF players put your volkite on?

[Slips]

Culverins on Heavy Support Squads since they gain Tank Hunters for free.

 

4 Shots at S6 per marine means that, even snap firing at flyers, you stand a good chance at taking down anything Av12 or Below. Otherwise, they just turn most infantry to dust.