New battle brother to the first legion

[Requiemnex]

Hello brothers!

 

I am a returning warhammer player, previously playing Sisters of Battle, Iron Warriors, Eldar, Crimson Fists, and a wee bit of necrons. I am getting back into the hobby and have not played since fifth edition.

 

I have not even picked up the rulebook. I downloaded battlescribe on my ipad and looked at various units. I havent purchased any models yet but a buddy of mine is going to sell me the DA side of the Dark Vengeance box set on the cheap with the rare chaplain.

 

I am curious what are some good buys? Models I should be looking for?

I came into this looking to make a fallen army but changed my mind once i noticed cypher cant join dark angels at all *mutters bad words*

 

I am a competitive player but enjoy doing theme armies. I am not sold yet on bikes, dudes, or terminators.

 

I am wondering what is competitive? What is considered absolutely not viable? If you want to be competitive do you have to branch out into other codex?

 

Any insight would be greatly appreciated!

[aura_enchanted]

Hello brothers!

 

I am a returning warhammer player, previously playing Sisters of Battle, Iron Warriors, Eldar, Crimson Fists, and a wee bit of necrons. I am getting back into the hobby and have not played since fifth edition.

 

I have not even picked up the rulebook. I downloaded battlescribe on my ipad and looked at various units. I havent purchased any models yet but a buddy of mine is going to sell me the DA side of the Dark Vengeance box set on the cheap with the rare chaplain.

 

I am curious what are some good buys? Models I should be looking for?

 

I came into this looking to make a fallen army but changed my mind once i noticed cypher cant join dark angels at all *mutters bad words*

 

I am a competitive player but enjoy doing theme armies. I am not sold yet on bikes, dudes, or terminators.

 

I am wondering what is competitive? What is considered absolutely not viable? If you want to be competitive do you have to branch out into other codex?

 

Any insight would be greatly appreciated!

cypher can join dark Angels just not in any lists you could take to a tournament ( a new army format called unbound where it's basically a madhouse for army design. You can basically build an army from ANYTHING).

 

What's tournament viable? Actually quite a bit and it varies on if the tournament is GW official, or if it's ITC based, or if it's neither. The most competitive ways to go is ravenwing bikes and speeders. Fairly straight forward follow the ravenwing strikeforce rules and you should be fine (download the codex errata).

 

Then you have the double lions blade this comes as one of two configs either your playing drop marines, or your playing razorback trailer park. This is because when you run what's known as the double lions blade Demi company army you don't pay for transports for any units in them. This army caps out at 1850 points sadly so any game bigger then that won't be covered by them alone.

 

What's worthless? Well the terminators, terminators have officially been dumped there's no point trying to run them or make them work unless your runnin a land raider because it just isn't happening. I am getting out of them after 2 editions of them getting worse and worse and now there just so unplayable in my local community it's hard to justify more then 1 squad in a raider.

 

Company masters and asmodai are pretty Junk beyond being something your pidgeon holed into taking for the lions blade. And with the death of terminators belial is also Junked. Azreal is the worst lord of war commander in the game right now so he's not useful anymore. And I honestly wouldn't bother with the basic dreadnaught unless he's in a lions blade which brings his cost down. Also don't bother with the nephilim... Ever the dark talon is fine but the neph is awful, you'll thank me later for saving you from that nightmare of a thing if you start reading up on other armies planes.

 

We lost a lot of flavour this codex edition, GW basically told us all to stop playin dark Angels and to go play codex space marines instead by systematically ripping out the flavour of dark Angels from our codex and gutting out special wargears and banners with the dumping on terminators being the cherry on top.

[eurieus]

Welcome to the rock !!

 

I don't play tournaments, but as far as competitive list ravenwing is very very strong. Ravenwing support squadron is awesome as well. You can combine that with a C:SM librarius conclave, or some thunder wolves cavalerie for extra cheddar.

 

I have yet to try the double demi, but full BS overwatch and free transport is suppose to be really strong !!

 

Deathwing is not suited for competitive play, but it's fun,challenging and they look awesome

[frostbite]

Welcome back!

 

Your first move should definitely be to pick up the Codex and Rulebook. Things have changed considerably since the days of 5th ed, especially in the realms of army selection/creation. Much of what I'm about to say might not be completely clear until you've got a handle on how building an army list works these days.

 

The general consensus is that the Ravenwing is the most competitive of our current builds. The Ravenwing Support Squadron formation in the Codex is simply amazing and the Ravenwing Strike Force Detachment is great, allowing you to field a full RW army.

 

The 'Greenwing' saw significant buffs in the most recent Codex. The Lion's Blade detachment works very well for MSU play, and it also allows models in the detachment to fire Overwatch at their full BS, along with a lot of units getting the Objective Secured special rule. If you choose to run a full Battle Company as part of it, you also get transports for free.

Running a normal Combined Arms Detachment is still viable though, and is the only way to get FW stuff into your army without going unbound.

 

Deathwing took a bit of a hit, however, as the rules to Deathwing Assault changed considerably. Now Deathwing formations must be held in reserve and cannot enter play until Turn 2 (with the exception of Venerable Dreads in pods). This means that, at best, you're going to have a couple of Dreadnoughts on the board for an entire turn, which greatly increases the chance of your opponent tabling you before your army arrives. So pure DW armies are tricky, at best. Adding some DW to your army is better, but still has its own issues. Both the DW formations, the DW Redemption Force and the DW Strike Force, have a minimum of two Termie units and a Termie HQ, meaning they are a significant chunk of points (around 500 for the cheapest build). Taking a single squad in a CAD works, but then they lose many of the cool DW special rules.

 

Adding allies to your army can certainly be a good idea. The DAs work well with the other flavours of Marine, especially from Codex: Space Marines. Being an 'Army of the Imperium', they can freely ally with any other Imperial faction, which is quite helpful.

 

Hope some of this helps!

[Chaplain Lucifer]

Welcome!

 

Like others said, at this point, RW is very good as is the Lion's blade. Terminators are more difficult to work with but that is true for any other army with terminators except Grey Knights.

I find odd that you are not sold on bikes, dudes or terminators because that's what DA have to work with... So are you sure DA is what you want?

Cheers.

[dalleron]

If you really don't like bikes, termies or boots on the ground, well then why DA?  If you were dead set on playing DA, then you could go RW strike force with speeders, speeders, more speeders and fliers.  Sammael on his speeder for your HQ.  Then take the hammer of caliban. 

[Requiemnex]

Hello again and thank you all for your replies. I should have been more clear. I was not saying that I dont like them but that I am not sold on any one unit. I am not looking at anything and thinking OH GOD I MUST USE THIS. My idea was for cypher because i love the fluff behind him.

 

What draws me to the DA is their fluff and the darkness behind them. After reading a lot of their fluff I have become convinced that the legion that was pulled into the warp and displaced was actually the true chapter and the legion that was left behind were the actual fallen. I havent read all the fluff and that may be thrown out the window but it just seems odd that many of the fallen DA when questioned seem to talk of their loyalty and such.

 

I have started making a list using some of the more competitive stuff. I am not really interested in the typical space wolf / DA combined list i see a lot of.. I enjoy the librarian formation that many people seem to tie them into.

 

Can Ravenwing / Deathwing work well together? How is deathwing in a landraider?

 

The Dark Tallon, seems fragile, should i take them in two or is single ok given target saturation? i am warming up to the idea of bikes and speeders I have always thought to be cool. I just dont want to show up and be "that guy" but the fluff fits for the 2nd.

I really enjoy the sammael model and the little bit of his story i know of.

[Chaplain Lucifer]

As for the fallen are the true DA theory, after you read a few books, you will see it is not the case.

Deathwing And Ravenwing do work well together and it's probably the best way to deploy Deathwing because land raiders are expensive.

The dark Talon is a nice flyer and you can probably manage with only one because of target saturation like you said, if you play Msu.

 

I would advise you to jump into the army list forum and take a look around to see what ate people using more.