Ionic Flare Shield

[Kaspar]

Does an Ionic Flare Shield count as an Ion Shield in a Baronial Court to recive the +1 invulnerable save???

[librisrouge]

As much as I don't like it, I would say no. The specific rules for it never refer to it as an Ion Shield, but rather as an Ion Flare Shield specifically. Now, if your group is fine with a little RAI than I'd take it up with them, otherwise I think you're outta luck my friend.

[Carlson793]

Actually, because of one little overlooked word when they copy/pasted from the base ion shield rules, it does count as an ion shield. See the FW download. In the first paragraph, it's referred to as an ion shield, not an ion flare shield. Unfortunately, because of that specific wording, you can't do the Lancer trick to take both the ion gauntlet shield and Sanctuary, but that's no different from other 'should I take this or that?' decisions.

[librisrouge]

Depends on which Ionic Flare Shirld you're talking about I guess. The Magaera doesn't have that wording, unfortunately. Good find. Lucky for Atrapos players.

[Spanish_Muffin]

Depends on which Ionic Flare Shirld you're talking about I guess. The Magaera doesn't have that wording, unfortunately. Good find. Lucky for Atrapos players.

So, (please let me know if I'm misunderstanding this, as I run the Atrapos, and didn't realize the wording gave us another 1+)

 

The Atrapos in a Baronial Court with Sanctuary relic can have:

 

3+ front shield (ionic flare shield, because it's worded as an Ion shield)

4+ another side (from the Sanctuary adding another ion shield ***)

6+ on it's last 2 sides?

 

 

*** I don't run Sanctuary myself on him, but as far as I know, this debate on adding another shield vs replacing the original shield is still occuring.

Edited April 5, 2016 by Spanish_Muffin

[fedratsailor]

sanctuary relic gives a 6+ to all sides not covered by the main arc, so if the shield is facing front it has a 4+ while the sides and rear have a 6+. no matter what arc the main part is protecting, you will have an invulnerable save to all arcs. improvements can make them better of course.

[Spanish_Muffin]

Unless its been FAQd somewhere;

 

The argument for Sanctuary relic is that it adds a second ion shield (wording says it counts as an ion shield, and there's nothing in the codex that says that it replaces or is taken instead of).

 

The second ion shield can be put on another side: gives two sides with 4+, and 2 with 6+.

 

If the baronial court adds another +1 on the front, your looking at a 3+, 4+, and two 6+.

Edited April 6, 2016 by Spanish_Muffin

[jeffersonian000]

Sanctuary counts as a 6++ Ion Shield that covers the other three facings. There is no rule support for a second positionable 4++ Ion Shield.

 

SJ

[CommodusXIII]

Sanctuary counts as an ion shield, and in addition the Knight bearing it has a 6++ save on its other facings.

 

The arguments for stacking Sanctuary on other Knights vary, but the standard one specifically made for the Lancer is that it doesn't have an ion shield to begin with.  Its "ion gauntlet shield" is a distinct item of wargear that is both modeled completely differently and that carries a different set of benefits/drawbacks/mechanics.  The argument is that Sanctuary would give the Lancer a true ion shield, in addition to the gauntlet shield bolted to its arm.

 

The problem is that there is no clear language on how Sanctuary is applied.  The Ravager and Paragon Gauntlet both dictate that they replace other weapons.  Sanctuary says nothing about replacing the standard Ion Shield, or how it can be applied to oddball Knights like the Lancer.  Maybe it stacks on all Knights, giving even a Paladin two positional 4++ arcs and a 6++ on the other two.  Maybe it replaces/upgrades an existing shield - one positional 4++ arc, and a 6++ on the other three.  Maybe the Lancer can't take it at all, since it technically doesn't have an ion shield to begin with.

 

There are arguments, both strong and weak, for all sides of the issue.  Until its FAQed it falls into the category of "talk it out with your opponent/TO".

Edited April 6, 2016 by CommodusXIII

[jeffersonian000]

Then perhaps people need ro FB the Sanctuary question to GW, now that they are taking questions?

 

SJ