Bat33.1 Posted April 4, 2016 Share Posted April 4, 2016 Hi, I'm building a new BA army and will be using the Strike Force Mortalis as a starting point. So far I've built and painted my first Stormraven in stock BA red, my second one will be in DC colours, and I will post some pictures of my progress later in the week. I've been around 40K for quite some time but very rarely play (I was happily playing WHFB with many at the local club until AoS killed fantasy stone dead there but this is not the place for that discussion) and have yet to play a game since 7th arrived! I do recognise my failure and will correct it once my new army is ready I've got some questions about kitting out my DC squads as I need to take three and plan on 5 man squads to keep points under control. Hopefully the members of the forum can help me out? Should I be taking Jump Packs, at 3 points per man it seems reasonably costed? Do they offer enough mobility to cover the extra points per squad? I was thinking of taking four of the squad with bolt guns rather than pistols for the extra shooting with one fist or hammer per squad. Am I on the right lines? Do I leave the fist guy with a pistol? Oh and on a slightly different topic, Blood Talons or fists on my DC dreads? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LutherMax Posted April 4, 2016 Share Posted April 4, 2016 Jump packs are good (and good value on DC). 5-man squads with one fist in each are popular (give the fist guy a bolter as he doesn't get the extra attack anyway due to specialist weapon). You could also add a power weapon (sword, maul, whatever you fancy) depending on points but the sheer number of attacks will usually win the day without the need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Father Mapple Posted April 4, 2016 Share Posted April 4, 2016 Warhammer 40k is the new ultra fluffy game of GW, so welcome! Since death company are relentless, and power fists are specialist weapons, it's best to go with bolters on the power fists. Relentless let's them shoot the bolters and still assault, and specialist weapons don't allow extra attacks from having pistols or another close combat weapon. 5 marine units are a little on the small side, but one power fist or hammer per five is just about right. The weight of attacks from the other 4 using bolt pistols and close combat weapons means they're good against tough and elites as well as hordes. I suggest you build one death company dreadnought as Cassor with blood talons and magna grapple for when you want to branch out of just the mortalis formation. I'd even build one squad of jump pack death company like Raphen's squad so you can have two troop choices for other detachment styles. Then you can try for Baal strike force for the +1 initiative that your close combat army would like. Good luck, and post progress pictures here too! This is the best forum on the internet for Blood Angels stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bat33.1 Posted April 4, 2016 Author Share Posted April 4, 2016 Thanks for the advice, noted and helpful :) I will take a look at the BSF formation and see if I can make use of it :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NTaW Posted April 5, 2016 Share Posted April 5, 2016 I'm a strong advocate of the lone power fist per five models. Never really had a problem with DC in combat with most infantry, but 2+ saves and Walkers are a big problem in my matches. Plus it's nice against T5+ models that don't like dying. Drop Pods or Jump Packs, occasionally in a Land Raider at higher points levels (and not using the Mortalis Formation of course). When it comes to Talons or Fists on DC Dreads it pretty much comes down to points. Do you really need Shred on a S10 model? ...unless you want to build up Cassor (ahem...Moriar...). Then Talons all the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkaniss Posted April 5, 2016 Share Posted April 5, 2016 I can see the sense in adding in things like a Power Fist for cracking tough nuts but since my DC are a few editions old and thus don't have any special weapons I've been running mine without. So let me add my anecdotal opinion that I find that 10 DC with Jump Packs in a Stormraven can still work without any upgrades. A lot depends on your meta of course and I admit my setup isn't exactly cheap points-wise. Anyway - for more generic (and perhaps more useful!) advice JPs may seem expensive but they give the DC much needed mobility. You don't want to leave them huffing it on foot trying to chase down a foe that doesn't want to be caught. As for the Talons as said they are nice additions if you have the spare points but a Furioso is killy enough already I find Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted April 5, 2016 Share Posted April 5, 2016 Death Company are your BIG BAD UNITTM People will go to insane lengths to make sure they don't get the charge. And why wouldn't they? Look at the below: In a Baal Strike Force a DC will have on the charge: -5 Attacks at S/I 5 Or in the Mortalis Formation if outnumbered: 6 Attacks at S5 I4 Pop in a Chaplain or Astorath to lead them for re-rolls to everything and things get silly. Hell roll up unleash Rage on a Librarian and you get a further extra attack. They are a BLENDER to pretty much anything. There is also some nasty combos if you are running the Veritas Vitae. How about Infiltrating Jump Pack Death Company with Move through cover? Imagine having a few small units with this buff. If even just two marines survive from each squad you could really ruin someones day! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LutherMax Posted April 5, 2016 Share Posted April 5, 2016 As for delivery, Stormraven is an option but 10 DC, even without upgrades, is a big point sink to put in a transport that may come in turn 2 for a turn 3 assault if it doesn't get shot down killing all on board... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted April 5, 2016 Share Posted April 5, 2016 As for delivery, Stormraven is an option but 10 DC, even without upgrades, is a big point sink to put in a transport that may come in turn 2 for a turn 3 assault if it doesn't get shot down killing all on board... Aye - you're better off with TH/SS Terminators in a Raven. They have a shot at surviving the blast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master of Asgard Posted April 5, 2016 Share Posted April 5, 2016 Plus 10 DC with jump packs don't fit in a Raven. The pack makes them bulky so it's a maximum of 6... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indefragable Posted April 5, 2016 Share Posted April 5, 2016 I will chant the mantra of "5x DC with 1x Power Fist/Bolter for every 5x DC" as well. It really is a tried-and-true formula. For me, DC have 2.5 builds that really get the bang for your buck: MSU: 5x DC with Jump Packs, 1x Power Fist, and everyone has bolters. Add a Power Sword or Maul if using BSF and you can spare the points. The secret to this is Relentless: 12" Jump Range (further to or further away from the enemy) + 24" Bolter range makes these little guys ridiculously annoying. And if you want something dead, jump into Charge range, double-tap the bolters, than Charge in to finish them off. This format will handle pretty much any non-dedicated CQC beatstick unit in the game. And if you face one of those, multi-charge with all of these and you will still stand a decent chance. Bomb: Astorath + 15x DC with Jump Packs, and 3-4 Power Fists/Bolters. Everyone else has pistols. Add Dante for more invuln tanking, Hit&Run, and an industrial vat of whoop*** if you have the points/it fits your list. This is the closest thing to a super unit we have, and man does it pack a punch. Pistols are better here than bolters since they stack better with all the re-rolls from Astorath. This thing is pricey as heck but rarely fails to deliver. .5: so the above two are what I advocate as they really get the most bang-for-your-buck. The ".5" way of building it would really only come up (for me) in rarer formats such as 750pt, 1000pt, 1250pt, etc... where you can't use the DC-Bomb but you may want something a bit heftier than just MSU DC. In that case, I a decent middle ground (IMO) would be 10x DC with Jump Packs, 2x PF/Bolter, and a Chaplain and/or Lemartes. Lemartes gets a lot of lamentation, these days, but never understate him. He's really not bad at all, but really it's just the Elites slot that he takes up that's the PITA. But of course, play around and discover what works for you. There's always a difference between what works for you and what "the internet says." Feel free to post your list in the Army List subforum of this BA section and people will tell you what they think (both in a good way and a bad way). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remtek Posted April 5, 2016 Share Posted April 5, 2016 Oh and on a slightly different topic, Blood Talons or fists on my DC dreads? I'd model them with Talons, they look way cooler and noone will care if your just playing them as fists. The talons are not worth it, but regardless of what you choose it's still close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bat33.1 Posted April 5, 2016 Author Share Posted April 5, 2016 Wow lots of helpful advice to digest here. Thanks all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bat33.1 Posted April 5, 2016 Author Share Posted April 5, 2016 Strike force Mortalis: Chaplain, jump pack, melta bomb, warlord 5x DC, power fist JP 5x DC, power fist JP 5x DC, thunder hammer? JP DC Dread, fist Magna, melta gun, heavy flamer pod DC Dread, fist Magna, melta gun, heavy flamer pod Stormraven T/L asscanon Flesh Tearers: Sang priest, jump pack, melta bomb 7x Sang guards, banner, 5x swords, 1x power fist, 6x scout, camo, sniper 5x assault marines, 2x melta sergent combi melta pod Stormraven T/L asscanon Something along this line is what I am looking at but as I'm building from scratch I'm open for suggestions as to the FT formation part of the list. I like DC so would like to use the SFM formation. I currently have one built and painted SR, one 5 man squad of DC with bolters and a fist and the following unbuilt kits - 1 SR, 2 DC, 1 BA TAC box, 1 sniper scout box, 2 Furiouso, 2 SG box, 3 DP, 1 Chaplin JP, 1 Sang Priest, but I can add in whatever is likely to give solid bang for buck, devs, more TACs, armour, etc I know this isn't going to be top tier competitive but I won't be either with 40K, just as I wasn't with WHFB lol, I just tend to pick an army I like the backround and models for and try to pull a decent list together that will be fun to play and put up a bit of a fight. So I am open to suggestions to adjust the basic list? Is the FT list a worthwhile basis of a second detachment given the DC will be around 1-1.2k points or should I look elsewhere to fill out to 1850? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted April 5, 2016 Share Posted April 5, 2016 I like it! If Chaplain is your warlord, get the Veritas Vitae relic on him and choose the strategic warlord traits. Will be gold with this list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LutherMax Posted April 5, 2016 Share Posted April 5, 2016 My favourite bit of this list is: Stormraven T/L asscanon Seriously though, it looks solid (and fun). The FT bit could do with some refinement perhaps, but there are others around better qualified to advise on that than I... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bat33.1 Posted April 9, 2016 Author Share Posted April 9, 2016 Finished my first ever Stormraven and I'm pretty happy with the way it turned out. I hope you guys like it too. http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y87/paulj1965/DSCF0211_zpskhfjha6r.jpg http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y87/paulj1965/DSCF0214_zpsqgwjvce8.jpg http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y87/paulj1965/DSCF0217_zpsgnsvkx5e.jpg http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y87/paulj1965/DSCF0215_zpspkdtjsem.jpg http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y87/paulj1965/DSCF0216_zpsjag2mmuz.jpg http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y87/paulj1965/DSCF0212_zps1gfawjlx.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-beard Posted April 9, 2016 Share Posted April 9, 2016 The Storm Raven looks awesome, nicely done! Lots of good advice above. I run my DC on foot with jumppacks, pistols, and CCWs. Typically I'll add in one power fist per 5 models. If you're running BSF, maybe consider one PF and one power sword or maul. DC are ALOT better if you run them with Astaroth or Lemartes. They went from WS5 to WS4 in the latest codex, and in my experience, that drastically hurt their effectiveness. Giving them re-rolls really really helps. Also, above all else, do not be on the recieving end of a charge with your DC. They need to be the ones doing the assaulting, otherwise they are merely average in CC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NTaW Posted April 9, 2016 Share Posted April 9, 2016 Also, above all else, do not be on the recieving end of a charge with your DC. They need to be the ones doing the assaulting, otherwise they are merely average in CC. It's worth keeping in mind that Zealot triggers first round of combat, and not on the charge. My brain has a few editions of 40k rules banging around in it and this little change in 7th edition is one that I completely missed for an embarrassing number of games. I mean...it's not +2A, +1S and +1I but the re-rolls really help to keep them relevant despite being a lot more average than usual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-beard Posted April 9, 2016 Share Posted April 9, 2016 That's true, but DC don't have zealot if you're running them by themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dakkamasta Posted April 10, 2016 Share Posted April 10, 2016 I'll also support the 5x DC with jump packs with a single fist per 5 guys. This unit can hurt pretty much every type of unit, has a very small foot print and doesn't cost much at all. I like other people's ideas of giving them all bolters, seems like an effective way to run them (mine are modelled with chainsword/pistols so I just run them that way). I find the main reason that the MSU approach for DC is so favourable is because you still get the full use that a DC squad can bring, but without giving your opponent a massive target to annhilate such as a big 10-15 man squad with Astorath/chaplain. I've used this type of squad many times and when the heavy firepower comes their way, a 3+ save and FnP won't save them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHelion Posted April 10, 2016 Share Posted April 10, 2016 MSU also pairs very well with Strike Force Mortalis' command benefits, which is +1 attack if the unit is outnumbered (And doesn't have rampage). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted April 10, 2016 Share Posted April 10, 2016 MSU also pairs very well with Strike Force Mortalis' command benefits, which is +1 attack if the unit is outnumbered (And doesn't have rampage). Charge a unit of 6 marines with a 5man w/fist set up and that is brutal. Each DC gets 2 + 1 + 2 + 1 = 6 Attacks. Fist gets 5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Pyrofessional Posted April 10, 2016 Share Posted April 10, 2016 I like it! If Chaplain is your warlord, get the Veritas Vitae relic on him and choose the strategic warlord traits. Will be gold with this list. or angels wing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LutherMax Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 Awesome Stormraven – really nicely done! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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