Rangdan Xenocides?

[1ncarnadine]

Probably not just the Slaugth, or it might be called the Rangdan Xenocide instead of the Rangdan Xenocides (plural). I feel like that implies the attempted extinction of several species, although it admittedly could be many attempts at just the one.

[depthcharge12]

God....imagine the Dark Angels without the Rangdan Xenocides. If they spanked the NLs with only a reduced fleet, imagine their impact on the Heresy if they had Ultramarine numbers.

[Jerichus]

To be fair; the DA had the benefit of a super-powerful archaeotech xeno-warp drive which the NL didn't. The two armies actually had about equal size armies during thramas(maybe a slight leaning toward NL as caliban hadn't given recruits for awhile), so of course the Ist would've crushed the Night Lords if they were still at UM numbers.

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

Lets not forget the DA had a not insane Primarch in charge

[Forward Assist]

The two armies actually had about equal size armies during thramas(maybe a slight leaning toward NL as caliban hadn't given recruits for awhile)...

Nostramo probably had been dilly-dallying with sending reinforcements too!

[Conn Eremon]

The two armies actually had about equal size armies during thramas(maybe a slight leaning toward NL as caliban hadn't given recruits for awhile)...

FW implications are that the Dark Angels were still in the 150,000+ range. I honestly can't remember the Night Lords' size, but I think it was closer to 100,000.

[Lord Blackwood]

can you imagine if there was a 40k conflict where they lost 50 thousand marines   

Fifty space marine chapters wiped out of existence

I mean  the nids couldn't even take down the boys in blue alone 

When you think about it , imagine if we had legion numbers  now all the little issues would likely just not be issues but I guess thats why it was called the great crusade. 

 

[Jerichus]

The two armies actually had about equal size armies during thramas(maybe a slight leaning toward NL as caliban hadn't given recruits for awhile)...

FW implications are that the Dark Angels were still in the 150,000+ range. I honestly can't remember the Night Lords' size, but I think it was closer to 100,000.

I wasn't aware that the gulf between the two was so great. I had figured that they made up the difference due to Horus' funneling resources to the traitor legions but you know what they say about what happens when you assume .

@Forward Assist: Yeah; I guess it'd be hard for them to send recruits, what with the being blowed up and all.

@Bladewolf: I mean, there was that one time that ecclesiarch sent 30 chapters into the eye of terror.

[noigrim]

can you imagine if there was a 40k conflict where they lost 50 thousand marines   

 

Fifty space marine chapters wiped out of existence

 

I mean  the nids couldn't even take down the boys in blue alone 

 

When you think about it , imagine if we had legion numbers  now all the little issues would likely just not be issues but I guess thats why it was called the great crusade. 

 

 

well there was that marine crusade into the eye of terror...

[RedFurioso]

There is something wrong with the dates...

Official accounts found in both the arcanlooms of the Logistica Corpus and the more prosaic works of the Remembrancers place the Alpha Legion's appearance as an active Legion force in its own right to either the decade immediately preceding the commencement of the Farinatus Extermination or as appearing as an unexpected reinforcing power during the darkest days of the third Rangdam Genocides. This represents a discrepancy of some thirty sidereal years [...] - HH3 Extermination

The Farinatus Extermination was at 972.M30.

 

Therefore, we can assume that the Third Rangdan Xenocide was at ~942.M30 or ~002.M31 (the latter is impossible).

But then I found this.

Though not yet having reached the decisive numerical superiority of the other Legions, it would manifest by the time of the Horus Heresy, yet the Ultramarines of 899.M30 were perhaps on the cusp of becoming so, as their ranks, then at around approximately 166,000 Legionaries, stood them in the forefront of their peers. The Dark Angels, who in the previous decade to this had been undoubtedly the most powerful single Legion, had fallen in number and evened this figure, having suffered massive casualties holding the line during the famed Third Rangdan Xenocide; the blood of 50,000 Space Marines spent in preventing the destruction of perhaps the entire northern Imperium by the menace from the outer darkness. - HH5 Tempest

 

Two dates of the same battle. 890.M30 and 942.M30. Guys, I don't understand.

[Daemon2027]

Might not be the same battle, just part of the same campaign. One very long protracted campaign. The 50,000 Dark Angles probably won't all killed in one engagement but over the course of the war. Holding the line could refer to them fighting to protect several imperial controlled planets and halt a xeno invasion. Later the Alpha Legion were involved in another phase of the campaign, and if the AL are involved I would say there was humans fighting for the xenos or the xenos were skilled infiltrators. Would also hint why it's called a genocide, maybe they had to put down a lot of the human population to contain the xeno threat.

[Sandlemad]

More fuel for the fire: was reading the background on House Orhlacc and it notes that they lost 48 knights "desperately holding the line against the faceless tide of grey abomination in order to buy time for the Imperium to gather its forces and counterstrike", for which they received a Memento Mori from the Emperor himself.

 

That could fit the Slaugth - faceless but made of worms? -  but it's not conclusive.

[Balthamal]

 

The two armies actually had about equal size armies during thramas(maybe a slight leaning toward NL as caliban hadn't given recruits for awhile)...

FW implications are that the Dark Angels were still in the 150,000+ range. I honestly can't remember the Night Lords' size, but I think it was closer to 100,000.

 

 

It's stated that the true scale of the VIII Legion was unknown given the amount of time they spent incommunicado after Nostramo blew. Whilst there's no conclusive evidence it's strongly hinted that the Night Lords were a lot closer to the 180k-200k mark than 100-120k

[Interrogator-Chaplain Ezra]

More fuel for the fire: was reading the background on House Orhlacc and it notes that they lost 48 knights "desperately holding the line against the faceless tide of grey abomination in order to buy time for the Imperium to gather its forces and counterstrike", for which they received a Memento Mori from the Emperor himself.

 

That could fit the Slaugth - faceless but made of worms? -  but it's not conclusive.

 

I can imagine FW pulling a Lovecraft with the Slaught.

 

"...and things have learnt to walk that ought to crawl."

[Conn Eremon]

 

 

 

The two armies actually had about equal size armies during thramas(maybe a slight leaning toward NL as caliban hadn't given recruits for awhile)...

FW implications are that the Dark Angels were still in the 150,000+ range. I honestly can't remember the Night Lords' size, but I think it was closer to 100,000.

It's stated that the true scale of the VIII Legion was unknown given the amount of time they spent incommunicado after Nostramo blew. Whilst there's no conclusive evidence it's strongly hinted that the Night Lords were a lot closer to the 180k-200k mark than 100-120k

Well, not according to FW, which gives the lower range as 90k and the upper range as 120k. There was no conclusive evidence, but those were the extreme estimations.

[Forward Assist]

More fuel for the fire: was reading the background on House Orhlacc and it notes that they lost 48 knights "desperately holding the line against the faceless tide of grey abomination in order to buy time for the Imperium to gather its forces and counterstrike", for which they received a Memento Mori from the Emperor himself.

 

That could fit the Slaugth - faceless but made of worms? - but it's not conclusive.

Kill it with fire!

 

.../CHOOM.

[Balthamal]

 

Well, not according to FW, which gives the lower range as 90k and the upper range as 120k. There was no conclusive evidence, but those were the extreme estimations.

 

 

In Massacre it states that the Legions strength at Istvaan was reported as low as 90k and up towards 120k while also stating that there were likely elements of the Legion elsewhere and not present. Afterwards there were suppositions that by employing rapid implantation techniques there was evidence to support the theory that the Night Lords were at least on par with the more numerous Legions. Since it's been said that only the Ultramarines and Word Bearers cleared the 200k barrier and we know that the Ravan Guard, Thousand Sons, Salamanders, Space Wolves and Death Guard were all under 100k strong that leaves "par" as being with the Sons of Horus (~170k) World Eaters (~150k) Iron Warriors (~180k) and possibly the Dark Angels given the strength they have retained on Caliban for decades and forces deployed around the galaxy. So the lower estimate on that would be 150-170k and the upper to 180-200k. Alas it'll never be confirmed one way or the other, just like the size of the Alpha Legion.

 

 

 

Kill it with fire!

 

.../CHOOM.

 

 

Surely this is the default option when fighting any organics?

[Corsovitt]

When it comes to the VIII Legion we were in the deep darkness for two decades after Nostromo and extremely fractured, who knows how many thousands of Night Lords were still out there following their own agendas and building their own mini empires...

[Augustus]

When was Nostramo destroyed? I'd like the see way more non Nostramo-an Night Lords than is currently portrayed in HH and especially 40k fiction. I guess they could have been pulling from the ships population but that strikes me as a last resort. 

[Arkangilos]

When was Nostramo destroyed? I'd like the see way more non Nostramo-an Night Lords than is currently portrayed in HH and especially 40k fiction. I guess they could have been pulling from the ships population but that strikes me as a last resort.

Before Istvaan

 

It's one of the reasons they sided with Horus.

[Corsovitt]

Well the consensus appears to be about two decades between Night Haunter nuking Nostromo and the dropsite massacres although I'm not clear on any fluff which states that as a concise fact... 

[Balthamal]

20 or so years is the common figure thrown out. Think it's in either Massacre or possibly one of the shorts about Curze attacking Dorn and running with his Legion. Nostramo is destroyed and to all intents and purposes the Night Lords vanish into the dark reaches of the galaxy. One theory put forward as to why the Emperor didn't censure the Legion is because of the imminent campaign at Ullanor and afterwards there was Horus to deal with and then Nikea. 

 

There's some discrepancies thrown up now with Fel Zharost actually going to Nikea to plead on behalf of the librarians and after the edict he returned to the Legion for judgement, which was handed down by Sevatar instead of Curze because he was "being schooled by his brothers" this doesn't exactly fit into the previous material of Istvaan being 5/6 years after Ullanor and at that time nobody had heard from the VIII Legion in decades. 

 

Something missing somewhere in all that

[Sevatar]

Interesting. As a general point, why is it that (so far at least) the Traitors seem to have such superiority in numbers, even pre heresy?  

[Leif Bearclaw]

we know that the ... Space Wolves ... were all under 100k strong

Um , how? Beyond the old 2nd ed codex saying they were a small Legion (which can hardly be taken as Gospel these days), I was under the impression we had no idea yet of numbers for the VI. And given that there were at least 81k Thousand Sons (RG being the smallest at that figure), the vast majority of them were at Prsopero, and the Wolves had a significant numerical advantage over them, where do you get the sub 100k figure from?

Interesting. As a general point, why is it that (so far at least) the Traitors seem to have such superiority in numbers, even pre heresy?

Possibly because it lets FW do their 'oh this is so mysterious' thing, like they've apparently done with the NL. Or so it's to justify the Traitors having an advantage, now the Heresy's not just Istvaan, Prospero, Calth, rush to Terra. Or to help justify there actually being a number or Heresy vets circa m41, despite the attrition of the Heresy, Scouring, Legion Wars and existence in the Eye. Or maybe FW just secretly hates the Loyalists side .

Edit: Derp, I meant to combine these two posts with an edit, not post twice. My bad

[Balthamal]

 

Um , how? Beyond the old 2nd ed codex saying they were a small Legion (which can hardly be taken as Gospel these days), I was under the impression we had no idea yet of numbers for the VI. And given that there were at least 81k Thousand Sons (RG being the smallest at that figure), the vast majority of them were at Prsopero, and the Wolves had a significant numerical advantage over them, where do you get the sub 100k figure from?

 

 

Well considering the bits and pieces that have always said they were a small Legion, along with others who've always had the "small" tag added on like the RG/Salamanders/TS I don't see anything to contradict that supposition. Additionally (can't recall where it's noted but it's somehwere) there's the fact that they recruit exclusively from Fenris as opposed to other Legions who still picked up recruits on their conquests and you've got an instant handicap on the numbers.

 

Where is it stated that the Wolves had a significant numerical advantage? From what I recall of Prospero Burns the only advantage the Wolves had was in taking the Thousand Sons utterly by surprise, not to mention the fact that they were bulked out by a significant cadre of the Silent Sisterhood, I don't remember anything about vastly outnumbering