aura_enchanted Posted April 9, 2016 Share Posted April 9, 2016 the contempor dreadnaughts is having a rules overhaul for 40k play, 30k armies can continue using his existing rules in imperial armour/hh books as normal but this is a major change for everyone else: the following weapons are probably no longer legal: volkite culverine icarus lascannon autocannons heavy bolter arm flamer mounted in hand or volkite mounted in hand relic plating or other upgrades in imperial armour 3: war mahcines of the adeptus astartes his new rules are in the angels of death codex supplement and all the proof i need: http://cdn.bols.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/AngelsOfDeathPsychicCardBundleENG_ProdSlide.jpg this might mean he jumps up to 4 attacks base though like the other dreadnaughts, and it means hes likely to now be over the counter full time as a plastic which is nice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eurieus Posted April 9, 2016 Share Posted April 9, 2016 Interesting, but will they be available to other chapters than the one in the C:SM ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aura_enchanted Posted April 9, 2016 Author Share Posted April 9, 2016 Interesting, but will they be available to other chapters than the one in the C:SM ? unclear it could mean that these are the rules for codex marines and we get the old rules for now, which would be interesting. awfully convenient of them to give us the old rules though, would me we get the better dreadnaught XD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frostbite Posted April 9, 2016 Share Posted April 9, 2016 If you look at the rumour thread, the rules have been posted. Not sure about which chapters can take it, but it's weapons options are limited to multimelta or kheres assault cannon on the right arm, and a power fist on the left. Oh, and it has gone up to 4 attacks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eurieus Posted April 9, 2016 Share Posted April 9, 2016 If you look at the rumour thread, the rules have been posted. Not sure about which chapters can take it, but it's weapons options are limited to multimelta or kheres assault cannon on the right arm, and a power fist on the left. Oh, and it has gone up to 4 attacks Yeah it's really to use the B@C dread out the box :) I really hope the terminators are available to us as well, but i'm hoping too much i think ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Blaire Posted April 9, 2016 Share Posted April 9, 2016 If it doesn't say "usable by C:DA", then it isn't usable. These rules don't automatically replace all FW rules for Contemptors for 40K unless there is a rule that actually specifies this (which I didn't see on the Contemptor rule sheet). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interrogator Stobz Posted April 9, 2016 Share Posted April 9, 2016 If they don't specify it's for Mortis pattern Contemptables then as that is a separate entry in IAV2E2 all the twin options should remain. That's the best way by far to field them anyways so I hope any changes are to the base model. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Lucifer Posted April 10, 2016 Share Posted April 10, 2016 These new rules are only for the C:SM. BA, DA and SW will still use FW rules . Same goes for the Cataphractii... also SM only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Blaire Posted April 10, 2016 Share Posted April 10, 2016 Is there something in the rules that says "You are forbidden from using the FW rules for these models in your 40K games?" ALL of my Contemptor rules in my FW books still have the "Warhammer 40K" stamp on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interrogator Stobz Posted April 10, 2016 Share Posted April 10, 2016 Only if they get officially superseded, but if the new book doesn't include us (and it looks like it doesn't, at least for now) then we are free to 'officially' use the FW rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Blaire Posted April 11, 2016 Share Posted April 11, 2016 Stobz, do you know of a place where this "officially superseded" phrase occurs in the rules? Until there is officially a statement, official rules are official rules, regardless of source. There would have to be a statement that they are invalid for anyone's argument to hold water. People are reading a LOT into something that the text has yet to actually say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interrogator Stobz Posted April 11, 2016 Share Posted April 11, 2016 Nope, not off the top of my head, it has been a convention for some time thought. I seem to remember it being at the front of an IA book or a FAQ or some-such, I'll have a look when I get home. If GW introduce their own Contemptor rules in the C:SM AoD supplement, you can bet your bottom dollar that FW will FAQ their IA rules in due course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodiger Posted April 11, 2016 Share Posted April 11, 2016 I’m wondering if using the Contemptor rules in the Angels of Death Supplement only for Codex Space Marines is so cut and dry. The issue is the use of the word ‘any’ So the rules say “Contemptor Dreadnaughts can be used in any Space Marines Detachment or Formation that lists ‘Dreadnoughts…’” Now on the one hand I can completely see this meaning that they can only be taken by Codex: Space Marines, the ‘any’ means any chapter in Codex: Space Marines, if they were for all chapters why not release them as free rules like Deathwatch or put them in White Dwarf, technically Dark Angels and the other chapters are not Space Marines we are Adeptus Astartes Dark Angels etc., and they have chapter tactics listed on the rules which the other Codexes can’t use. On the other hand I think there is a good argument for the ‘any’ meaning all the Space Marine chapters, Firstly The Angels of Death Supplement is listed under all of the Space Marine chapters tabs on the GW website, check that army only box and it appears in Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Grey Knights, Space Wolves. Secondly the way the text is written does not state Codex: Space Marines, only in the example it says Codex: Space Marines. The new psychic powers were intended for all chapters, why not this too. Furthermore the models are from Betrayal of Calth, they were designed to be used for anyone who wanted to make any of the original 18 legions out of them, they even sold chapter specific upgrade packs, why make them Codex: Space Marines only now. Fluff wise why should successor chapters have access to these but not the original legions. It is a Space Marine birthday, the Dark Angels are Space Marines, even Chaos are Space Marines and they have a limited release too. I am not entirely convinced by either side, I’m on the fence, but I don’t think this issue is solved yet, I think it needs an FAQ or an O.K from White Dwarf. Personally I would let any Dark Angels, Blood Angels etc. players use them if they wanted to. Thoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
march10k Posted April 11, 2016 Share Posted April 11, 2016 I’m wondering if using the Contemptor rules in the Angels of Death Supplement only for Codex Space Marines is so cut and dry. The issue is the use of the word ‘any’ So the rules say “Contemptor Dreadnaughts can be used in any Space Marines Detachment or Formation that lists ‘Dreadnoughts…’” Now on the one hand I can completely see this meaning that they can only be taken by Codex: Space Marines, the ‘any’ means any chapter in Codex: Space Marines, if they were for all chapters why not release them as free rules like Deathwatch or put them in White Dwarf, technically Dark Angels and the other chapters are not Space Marines we are Adeptus Astartes Dark Angels etc., and they have chapter tactics listed on the rules which the other Codexes can’t use. Good thought...if it says "any adeptus astartes army" or something like that...well, the webstore has every flavor of space marines listed as Adeptus Astartes: [flavor here]. In either event, it would seem to apply to contemptors, but not mortis contemptors...I'm good with that...no more culverin/fist combo, or whatever, but the icarus mortis contemptor aircraft-throat-puncher (for the cost of a land raider, almost) would still be ok. Stobz, do you know of a place where this "officially superseded" phrase occurs in the rules? Until there is officially a statement, official rules are official rules, regardless of source. There would have to be a statement that they are invalid for anyone's argument to hold water. People are reading a LOT into something that the text has yet to actually say. Does the latest C:DA explicitly state that its publication invalidates the previous codex? I would love to continue fielding three crusaderloads of thundernators (and knights with the old S10 one-off) with a 4++ bubble bearing techmarine hitching a ride in the center tank... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Blaire Posted April 11, 2016 Share Posted April 11, 2016 Does the latest C:DA explicitly state that its publication invalidates the previous codex? I would love to continue fielding three crusaderloads of thundernators (and knights with the old S10 one-off) with a 4++ bubble bearing techmarine hitching a ride in the center tank...And you can't why? You've hit the nail on the head: the 7th Ed Codex doesn't "invalidate" the 6th Ed 'Dex. You can choose to use the rules you want to play with. People do actually do that, it isn't insane (well, I guess it's insane to those that want to straight jacket themselves to the rules as written only - though that's considered insane by others). There are people still out there playing 2nd Edition. The horror and gall! Now, my preference would always be to play the Codex edition matched to the rules edition played (otherwise things could/would get very weird), but you don't necessarily absolutely have to, you'd have to agree how to work out weirdness though. Sure, if you are playing in a tournament, the TOs probably have specific rules on what they are going to allow. Many of those are less than fun and interesting (potentially reflecting the TOs themselves - I know, I used to be one, and only truly started enjoying the game when I stopped being one). But even if you want to go by 7th Ed RAW only, until there's an Errata saying "The rules for Contemptors in the FW books lose their "40K" stamp" (or the like), then they are still legal, fieldable units. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aura_enchanted Posted April 11, 2016 Author Share Posted April 11, 2016 update: confirmed on many of the changes to the contempor and one interesting note the contempor cannot take a dedicated transport, the only way to get him embarked on a transport is paying for a force slot or to get him into a formation such as the ravenhawk that requires he ride a transport beyond that no changes of note over the old guy that we havent discussed in ad nauseam http://i.imgur.com/vmpl6fW.jpg here is the sheet for the cataphracts: http://i.imgur.com/1pKnzTW.jpg basically for the inability to take cyclone, plasma cannons, assault cannons and cyclones and thunderhammers/storm shields you get a vastly cheaper terminator, your sargeant has at base a masterd crafted power sword he can exchange for a power fist for free, he can mount a grenade launcher for 10 points on the top of his dome. those are all combi-bolters there wielding not storm bolters so they have a bit better shooting because bolter superior to storm bolter as a base group. and they have access to your standard array of transports and their baselines go unchanged from the same old same old of a tactical marine with a 2+/5++ so it narrows their focus into being more cc oriented but lowers there cost considerably. however you lose arguably the two best specialist weapons of the lot thunders and shields and assault cannons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harleqvin Posted April 11, 2016 Share Posted April 11, 2016 There is a Space Marine faction logo on them only in their Sheet correct?The rules spot that talks about them being substitutes for Captain, Dreads/Ven Dreads and Terminators says Space Marine and only mentions Codex: Space Marine.That would mean it's only useable by a formation/detachment for C:SM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aura_enchanted Posted April 11, 2016 Author Share Posted April 11, 2016 There is a Space Marine faction logo on them only in their Sheet correct? The rules spot that talks about them being substitutes for Captain, Dreads/Ven Dreads and Terminators says Space Marine and only mentions Codex: Space Marine. That would mean it's only useable by a formation/detachment for C:SM. while you are correct they are coming to us, wether u want it or not we are getting them down the line because it wouldnt be games workshop to re-release boxed set products and then say only a select list of people can use them. and at any rate this holds relevance if you (like me) run codex marines formations Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harleqvin Posted April 11, 2016 Share Posted April 11, 2016 I was saying that for the people that say it isn't so cut and dry that that they are only C:SM entries only. When it's evident they are.lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harleqvin Posted April 11, 2016 Share Posted April 11, 2016 I do find it funny that C:BA and C:SW still don't have Contemptor entries.Even the Forge World Contemptor entries are IA (BADAB army thing,) C:SM, and C:DA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slave to Darkness Posted April 11, 2016 Share Posted April 11, 2016 Blood Angels and Space Wolves do have FW rules. Imperial Armour Apocalypse 2nd ed pages 26-27. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interrogator Stobz Posted April 11, 2016 Share Posted April 11, 2016 Yup^^ EDIT: Oops, in the IA Apoc book, but they do exist ;) These new GW rules might just be their way of giving 'nilla Contemptors a bit of 'specialness'. Probably not though, it's probably a precursor to FW removing options from the resin stock list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Epher Posted April 11, 2016 Share Posted April 11, 2016 175 points for termintors. Seems rather cheap. No thunder hammers and storm shields for the cataphractii either. I'll take my Deathwing any day over these guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodiger Posted April 12, 2016 Share Posted April 12, 2016 I was saying that for the people that say it isn't so cut and dry that that they are only C:SM entries only. When it's evident they are. lol I was just trying to create a discussion on what will be a legitimate concern for the people who bought the Calth Box Set, I'm not arguing for either, I can just understand both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harleqvin Posted April 12, 2016 Share Posted April 12, 2016 Blood Angels and Space Wolves do have FW rules. Imperial Armour Apocalypse 2nd ed pages 26-27. Incorrect. Those are not rules pages. Those are time dates within 40k universe. The Data slates for Contemptor and Mortis pattern Contemptor state it's only for C:SM, C:DA, the Tyrant's Legion Army and Space Marine Siege Assault Vanguard army. Pages 177- 180. Edit. LOL I was looking at IA Volume 2: 2nd edition. I don't have the Apocalypse book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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