Do you use Assassins or Cypher?

[Blackarmor_redtruth]

In my 1850 list I run a vindicare assassin and IK Paladin regularly with some nice success. Looking over some other assassins (less the psyker one, not a lot of psykics in my local oddly) I'm wondering if anyone has any experience with either Callidus or Evisor Assassins or Cypher (another powerful character, similar to the assassins)?

 

My generic list is

St Celestine

Canoness, rosarius, mantle/ophelia, melta bombs

x2 SoB x5, meltagun and melta bombs

x2 Dominions, meltaguns, melta bombs, immolator (MM)

seraphim squad with dual hand flamers (St C goes here)

x2 exorcist

IK Paladin

________?

 

 

Local meta has a wide spread of just about every army, extra emphasis on bikes usually.

 

So any advice or hints on how to throw in some more death via assassins (or Cypher)?

[ValourousHeart]

Both the Caladus and Eversor are nice, but like all of the assassins they may have a local impact on the board, but they won't have that much of an impact on the game.

 

Cypher... Well he is a different story.

He has the chance to screw your army over due to the -1 leadership he hits you with.

 

Why do you want an assassin or cypher?

 

Honestly for the points I would do 1 of 2 things.

1. Second squad of Seraphim.

2. RW Attack Squadron... Which can be as small as 1 Attack Bike and 1 Speeder (95 pts before upgrades) and gets some very nice rules.

 

Sisters and RW form a very devastating combo, between the two you can put low cost, high damage output units in every section of the board.

[grendal1989]

I like the callidus and culuxes and have used both to effect.

The callidus bringing the only snap shots on the turn she comes on is an ok short term distraction, potentially longer term if she lives long enough to get into combat after she super infiltrates/comes on from reserve. Also, an ap2 template, while only wounding on 4's is nothing to sniff at. Further, the reroll on Sieze is ok, the -3 to first enemy reserve roll is better.

 

Culuxes is good for more than just anti psyker, although it excels at that( driving one around in an empty rhino, shooting in psychic, and turboboosting away can cover a lot of board). Its psychic phase mind bullets can really hurt things with 2+ armor saves and don't prevent it from charging a different unit. Also, full time distraction since enemy only gets BS/WS 1 against it, just watch out for templates and blasts. Anecdote:  I once held an autarch +seer council for 3 game turns before ultimately killing them. Another Anecdote, murdered a DP of Nurgle getting that hot 6 instant death (on psykers it is full time ID in CC) and then killed a GUO doing the same thing after 2 turns (granted those last two did require hot dice).

YMMV but I have fun with them. I might see the Eversor being useful if you fight hordes of guardsmen/termagaunts....if you do not get shot to death.

[grendal1989]

I didn't touch on the vindicare because I have only used it in 2 games. 1 was an apoc where it immobilized 2 annihilation barges (no cover save apparently hurts) and the other was a non apoc game manning an aquilla stronghold with the double D templates giving it ignore cover and practically no scatter and I felt dirty.  I could see it being a good heavy/special weapon or sargent killer since it practically always hits and every hit is a precision shot that you can allocate that gives -2 to look out sir at ap 2 and 2+ to wound if you pick the right ammo to use.

[Naminé]

I've used Cypher before and I think he gives a lot to blob squads and Repentia in particular.  He's a really good tank for the Repentia and giving them shrouded and hit and run is a nice bonus, making the unit a nightmare that your opponents must deal with.  The drawback is that he is expensive, fair for his points, but not something you could run everytime in my opinion.

 

Good for a laugh, at any rate, and to shake things up if your list is feeling a bit stale.

[grendal1989]

For some reason I thought Cypher had infiltrate and couldn't join things without it. I don't have his data slate so someone more informed weigh in.

[Blackarmor_redtruth]

Cypher does have Infiltrate but that doesn't prevent him from joining things w/o it, just not during deployment. I think Namine is getting at, that he joins them after deployment, then provides the goodies and tanks for them. That's a pretty nice idea btw. I also like the idea of the Culuxes doing psykic drive by, pretty hilarious in my mind. Not sure if the points justify that. In fact that's what they all look like more and more, little spikes of fun.

 

I think the callidus sounds like she might fit in a list or two. Initiative double chance is okay, and I really like the -3 enemy reserve rolls. Just have to sneak her into combat turn two it sounds like, and that should tie-up something good until I deal with other things. Might even try double assassin and drop the IK. Oh the heresy!

 

Thanks for the input all, always appreciated.

 

 

[grendal1989]

IC's without squads in deployment make me worry. But then again i'm a worry wort.

[Naminé]

I wouldn't worry about cypher on his own, he's fast, a tiny model, has a massive save in cover and he has eternal warrior.

[Blackarmor_redtruth]

But do his points and threat range justify each other?

 

 

[ValourousHeart]

Like with all IC most of what makes them a threat on the table is the unit they are with.

This is also why assassins tend to underperform... They have all the same flaws that they typical IC has but they can't hide in a unit.

 

The reason for taking assassins and unique IC like Cypher, is because of the way they increase the fun you have playing.

 

By the fact that you even thought to ask the questions "but do his points...." Tells me unequivocally that you would be far better served with a work horse unit like another exorcist, more dominions, more seraphim, Ravenwing Attack Squadron, or even a Sister's command squad with 5 heavy bolters.

 

With very very rare exceptions IC never stand up well to that question.

 

Is he a good unit, well costed, with fun rules... Yes he is with a very big *

In comparison to the breadth of unit choices across all 40k codexes and supplements... That * means yes.

In comparison to what is acceptable to bring to a tournament... That * means no.

But understand that when discussing tournaments, more than 2/3rds of the codexes are rubbish and about 1/2 of the units in the remaining codexes are also rubbish.

[grendal1989]

Yeah, pretty much everything valorous heart said. Special IC's and assassins are a compromise. They aren't scat packs and shouldn't really be judged on the same basis of points efficiency. Can an assassin kill its points back in enemy units? yes, under the right circumstances and support. They also do other things that are difficult to measure in points efficiency, like provide distractions. When playing my friend who loves his BA Death company, she dies every game turn 1 (maybe 2 if ultra lucky), but  that is because she is put in  place to distract them for a turn to allow everything else to get in a better position or kill his other stuff. My culuxes took fire from half a tau army (I killed all the marker lights prior) because he was drop podded into their gun line and able to hurt  a lot of stuff being AP 2 in and out of cc.

 

So in short I bring them for the flavor and every so often they do something exceptional (a la kill a DP in cc) and make for great stories.

[Blackarmor_redtruth]

Good stuff ValourousHeart, ty. I'll chew on it a bit and mull things over. Yes I do love my vindicare, more for the threat it brings (and my [humble] awesome conversion) than any point-point swapping ability of which it almost never makes back but is still helpful and threatening IMO. I guess I let a little bit of my competitive side come out with my last statement, as I meant to splash them in as "fun" bits.

 

And I do love my CCA with heavy bolters.