Ironwithout Posted April 10, 2016 Share Posted April 10, 2016 So as the title says. These guys are a real tough nut to crack with all the high toughness battle automota and all the reduction in cover says. How do people deal with them? What have you learned when playing them? Any tips or tricks? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/321303-tactics-against-mechanicum/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runefyre Posted April 10, 2016 Share Posted April 10, 2016 Fulmentarus strike squads and tyrant siege terminators are my go to "destroy anything with a 3+ save" units when playing against mechanicum (at least for my ultras and iron warriors). Leviathans with storm cannon/claw combo is also quite good at clearing castellax off the board. You also must come to the realisation that you WILL take severe casualties in the engagement. Also librarians are surprisingly useful in this context, anything with instant death is golden against monstrous creatures. They're also quite susceptible to sweeping advances (except for rite of pure thought adsecularus tarpits of doom). Dark Angels Terranic great swords also looks like an excellent option against monstrous creaturs (str +2, ap3, instant death). Quad mortars with phosphex shells and medusas also work quite well. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/321303-tactics-against-mechanicum/#findComment-4360194 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminus Posted April 10, 2016 Share Posted April 10, 2016 Fulmentari need a 6 to wound Castellax, and 5s to wound Thallax/Vorax. The Castellax and Vorax are AP2. Doesn't seem like an ideal match-up. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/321303-tactics-against-mechanicum/#findComment-4360651 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted April 10, 2016 Share Posted April 10, 2016 S8 Krak Missiles from Cyclones vs T7 seem to me like they'd need a 3+ to wound. At Ap3 Castellax, Thallax and Vorax get no Armor save with Castellax Falling back on a 5++ Fulmentari and Tyrants being in Cataphractii for a 4++ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/321303-tactics-against-mechanicum/#findComment-4360661 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runefyre Posted April 10, 2016 Share Posted April 10, 2016 Perhaps Terminus is talking about close combat, in which case he'd be correct, stock fulmentarus come with power weapons, so at best they're wounding castellax on 4's with power mauls (though they can purchase power fists). As you pointed out (through contextual intuition) I am talking about shooting attacks. 10 str8 ap3 BS5 shots with interlocking tactics is extremely devastating to just about any mechanicum unit (except for thanatars). Bonus points if you go for a full 10 man squad for 20 krak missiles with interlocking tactics and -1 to enemy cover saves (though a maxed out unit is 700 points, without any chain/power fists). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/321303-tactics-against-mechanicum/#findComment-4360667 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted April 10, 2016 Share Posted April 10, 2016 Fulmentarus actually come with Power Mauls stock instead of Power weapons? Its a free swap to axes and swords, sure, but why would you in this case? So you dont really want to swap out to Swords or Axes its either Mauls or Fists which aren't all that bad. It just means S6 (mauls) vs T7 which is 5+ to wound vs Castellax. Sure, they get a 3+ Save but eh. If your Fulmentarus are in CC something went horribly, horribly wrong. +++ Tyrants are a different story since they all have Power Fists as standard anyways. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/321303-tactics-against-mechanicum/#findComment-4360672 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runefyre Posted April 10, 2016 Share Posted April 10, 2016 Fulmentarus rules are were written in an unorthodox manner (not uncommon from FW ). They come stock wit power mauls, but have option to quote: any model may exchange their power maul for a: -power sword or power axe............................free Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/321303-tactics-against-mechanicum/#findComment-4360682 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted April 10, 2016 Share Posted April 10, 2016 Yeaaaaaah. Saw that afterwards. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/321303-tactics-against-mechanicum/#findComment-4360687 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminus Posted April 10, 2016 Share Posted April 10, 2016 Whoops, the "strike squad" part threw me and I thought we were thinking about Locutarus. I never really considered the Fulmentarus terminators seriously, because they are SO much more expensive than Siege Tyrants (105 more for the base unit of 5, and then 20 points more for each additional dude). Plus the one time I saw a full squad of 10 in a game, they got chewed up by sniper fire. Also, you don't want to be on the receiving end of a charge of Vorax, trust me, they will force a crapton of wounds through rotor cannons and flamers, then charge you for 4 AP2 attacks wounding on 2+ (and re-rolling to hit with Scoria). So yeah, infantry-based melee is straight out. You guys will want to shoot these :cuss and missile launchers are a good choice! Thallax and Vorax only have 4+ saves, so they really don't like Kheres cannons. The Leviathan Storm Cannon and Siege Claw are tailor-made for killing Mechanicum. All the automata will struggle against Leviathan/Contemptor AV13 unless it's Castellax and they bothered to buy a siege wrecker. When Scoria and the Arlatax come out, all bets are off. ` Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/321303-tactics-against-mechanicum/#findComment-4360688 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runefyre Posted April 10, 2016 Share Posted April 10, 2016 it's a pity those vorax will never get past the krak missiles . I think an Armoured Breakthrough will get good mileage against mechanicum, stock preds with HB sponsons will mulch thallax, sicarans, sicaran venators, and plasma preds supported by medusas should take care of most everything else. Legion glaive could be awesome to. Though expect a high mortality rate in return, I know from experience mechanicum (when played right, which my flgs manager is quite good at) can be borderline op, I don't think I've ever beat him yet, just stalled him long enough for a draw . Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/321303-tactics-against-mechanicum/#findComment-4360699 Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted April 11, 2016 Share Posted April 11, 2016 If you're a cool kid you already play dark Angels and have acid shells! Suck it nerds!!! :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/321303-tactics-against-mechanicum/#findComment-4360812 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminus Posted April 11, 2016 Share Posted April 11, 2016 it's a pity those vorax will never get past the krak missiles . Maybe. Remember they have scout for outflanking shenanigans, and it takes a full squad of 10 Fulmentarus (700+ points) to kill 3 Vorax if they have 5+ cover after modifiers. And there may be a big scary Archmagos attached to them! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/321303-tactics-against-mechanicum/#findComment-4360860 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevatar Posted April 11, 2016 Share Posted April 11, 2016 The Arlatax are formidable, especially with the Rampage weapons they can purchase. Who are the Scoria again? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/321303-tactics-against-mechanicum/#findComment-4361030 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted April 11, 2016 Share Posted April 11, 2016 Scoria is a Near Primarch Equivalent Mechanicum Character. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/321303-tactics-against-mechanicum/#findComment-4361033 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runefyre Posted April 11, 2016 Share Posted April 11, 2016 Scoria is a Near Primarch Equivalent Mechanicum Character. But half the price . Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/321303-tactics-against-mechanicum/#findComment-4361038 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted April 11, 2016 Share Posted April 11, 2016 Depends on the Primarch. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/321303-tactics-against-mechanicum/#findComment-4361044 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runefyre Posted April 11, 2016 Share Posted April 11, 2016 I'm generalizing (with a hint of sarcasm). I seriously wouldn't want to take on Scoria though. I think certain legion specific terminators can tangle with castellax/vorax (Justaerin, Deathshroud, and Firedrakes). The only issue is you will generally not have more than one of those, whereas a mechanicum player can easily have 3+ units of castellax/vorax. Perhaps a pride of the legion SoH list could work well, alpha strikers can negate a certain amount of mechanicum barrage shooting, and Justaerin have enough durability to last for a little while. And banestrike is probably better than regular bolter rounds at taking on robots. If you're sticking to neutral tactics, I think even just regular cataphractii terminators in a pride of the legion (or primarch's chose) list provide enough durability to make a mark. Supported with podding leviathans (with storm cannon/claw combo) to provide an immediate distraction. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/321303-tactics-against-mechanicum/#findComment-4361066 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted April 11, 2016 Share Posted April 11, 2016 Mortarion and Vulkan (maybe others I forget) have instant death on thier weapons. Mortarion especially has the mobility to absolutely chew through anything the Mechanicum can throw at him. Plus incase you don't need his warp jump you can throw a phosphex bomb! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/321303-tactics-against-mechanicum/#findComment-4361237 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminus Posted April 11, 2016 Share Posted April 11, 2016 Scoria is a Near Primarch Equivalent Mechanicum Character. Lol, "near" Primarch? He will eat pretty much anyone except Horus. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/321303-tactics-against-mechanicum/#findComment-4361521 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runefyre Posted April 11, 2016 Share Posted April 11, 2016 Scoria is a Near Primarch Equivalent Mechanicum Character. Lol, "near" Primarch? He will eat pretty much anyone except Horus. Eh, he'd struggle mightily against Vulkan, it'd be a match of 3++'s as Scoria wouldn't get his FnP. same with Alpharius (though Mr. Sneaky only had a 4++, but has preferred enemy). Corax could also take him down, when using Shadow Walk fighting style Scoria would be hitting on 5's.....with only 3 attacks. Guilliman can also achieve this by the third round of combat. Precognition Lorgar also should be able to take him on successfully. Heck, Sigismund will probably beat him, on the charge Siggy will hit him first (I6) re-rolling to hit rolls with instant death (no FnP) and forcing re-rolls of successful invulnerable saves. Scoria's also only Ld. 7 against Curze's fear check, which would again force him to hit on 5's with only 3A. Though with arlatax bodyguard, I don't know what I'd do, probably just try to phosphex them off the face of the earth (or bring a falchion, which would be cheaper than Scoria and 3 Arlatax). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/321303-tactics-against-mechanicum/#findComment-4361662 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted April 11, 2016 Share Posted April 11, 2016 Scoria has Eternal Warrior, I hope you all know that, right? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/321303-tactics-against-mechanicum/#findComment-4361669 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runefyre Posted April 11, 2016 Share Posted April 11, 2016 Scoria has Eternal Warrior, I hope you all know that, right? Yup I've got a screen shot of his rules . That's the biggest struggle with him, that and his 3++, and his Shock Stick of Old Age. But with only 3A, he'll struggle against anything he can't hit properly. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/321303-tactics-against-mechanicum/#findComment-4361677 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brofist Posted April 12, 2016 Share Posted April 12, 2016 Doesn't he get 4 attacks if you upgreydd his abyent? Also he gets 2 extra attacks from his machinator array albiet at I1. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/321303-tactics-against-mechanicum/#findComment-4362043 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted April 12, 2016 Share Posted April 12, 2016 Scoria is just a monster. A fully insane monster. He hands out sweet sweet sweeping advance candy to his automata too :c Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/321303-tactics-against-mechanicum/#findComment-4362283 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runefyre Posted April 12, 2016 Share Posted April 12, 2016 Scoria is just a monster. A fully insane monster. He hands out sweet sweet sweeping advance candy to his automata too :c Mechanicum units generally don't have the best initiative ever. Though with that one cyberthurgery (can anyone properly spell that!) power that grants +2I, vorax become really scary. Unless you're EC. After some thinking, I've come to the conclusion that Death Guard are probably the best legion to counter Mechanicum. Mortarian, Poisoned frag missiles (courtesy of Morty, and great for forcing saves on Thanatars), rad grenades, and both deathshroud and grave warden termies can hang with most mechanicum units. Immunity to fear also comes in handy quite a bit. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/321303-tactics-against-mechanicum/#findComment-4362473 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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