Tactics against Mechanicum.

[helterskelter]

Night Lords. +1 to wound with talent for murder sooo glaived up night raptors, terminators for a start. The terminators jointly so with the Blood Angels. Also of the same ilk tooled destroyers, full squad with rad missile launchers stripping toughness on the way in, in addition to the rad nades makes robots extra squishy. Unless they aren't affected by rad.

But must be NL or DA for that all important plus one to wound so you are making all those dice count.

Tooled sergeants for appropriateness.

Also by the same count forgelords and praevian leading their own automata. Fight fire with fire and the bonus of preferred enemy with praevian shooting first

[Runefyre]

And Night Lord castellax/vorax gain a Talent for Murder to boot!

[Terminus]

 

 

 

 

Scoria is a Near Primarch Equivalent Mechanicum Character.

Lol, "near" Primarch? He will eat pretty much anyone except Horus.

Eh, he'd struggle mightily against Vulkan, it'd be a match of 3++'s as Scoria wouldn't get his FnP. same with Alpharius (though Mr. Sneaky only had a 4++, but has preferred enemy).

 

Corax could also take him down, when using Shadow Walk fighting style Scoria would be hitting on 5's.....with only 3 attacks. Guilliman can also achieve this by the third round of combat. Precognition Lorgar also should be able to take him on successfully.

 

Heck, Sigismund will probably beat him, on the charge Siggy will hit him first (I6) re-rolling to hit rolls with instant death (no FnP) and forcing re-rolls of successful invulnerable saves.

 

Scoria's also only Ld. 7 against Curze's fear check, which would again force him to hit on 5's with only 3A.

 

Though with arlatax bodyguard, I don't know what I'd do, probably just try to phosphex them off the face of the earth (or bring a falchion, which would be cheaper than Scoria and 3 Arlatax).

Scoria has 6 attacks, 4 of which are absolutely devastating. He has Eternal Warrior. His opponents do not get FNP or IWND.

 

Arlatax bodyguard would be a bad idea, so I don't think you have to worry about that ever.

[disease]

The thing with Scoria, is that he doesn't have to roll to wound - each hit auto does D3 wounds ignoring FNP and IWND, while himself enjoys 5 wounds of eternal warrior, T6, 2+, 3++  (assuming abeyant).  Its the sheer speed in which he can take down other high value combatants that is scary. It should not be forgotten, that he provides considerable buffs to units around him, thanks to his traits and cyberthurgy (equivalent mech psychic powers) and has a huge amount of dakka too.

 

 

Just look at his rules if he takes an abeyant:

 

Eternal Warrior
Adamantium Will
Stubborn
Battlesmith
Cybertheurgy
Patris Cybernetica
Feel no Pain (5+)
Independent Character
Relentless (Photon thruster, flamer, meltagun and two mastercrafted archeotech pistols)

It will not Die

Move through cover

Hardened Armour

 

 

The Rite of the Beast (Cyberthurgy power)

The Homonculex (special arletax bodyguard)

Forbidden Protocols (Warlord trait)

 

 

Assuming two domitar bodyguards accompany him and you make a charge (+1 move and charge distances) you get 8 attacks on the charge at initiative 5, which are S10 AP2 that re-roll to hit.  Scoria himself has 5 attacks on the charge which with the best rolling will give you 15 AP2 wounds that ignore FnP and IWND also at initiative 5. He then he also gets a further 2 x S6 AP2 shred/armourbane attacks at I1. They will then sweep too.

[helterskelter]

You could only hope to blast him with a couple of rad missiles first, hope it gets through everything so rad phage can do its stuff and hit him after that with anything high power enough.

If you're lucky enough to keep hitting him with rad missiles so the phage keeps affecting him all the better.

That or volkite culverin and drown him in dice

[Terminus]

You could only hope to blast him with a couple of rad missiles first, hope it gets through everything so rad phage can do its stuff and hit him after that with anything high power enough.

If you're lucky enough to keep hitting him with rad missiles so the phage keeps affecting him all the better.

That or volkite culverin and drown him in dice

Rad phage wound reduction sticks around all game.

[helterskelter]

 

 

You could only hope to blast him with a couple of rad missiles first, hope it gets through everything so rad phage can do its stuff and hit him after that with anything high power enough.

If you're lucky enough to keep hitting him with rad missiles so the phage keeps affecting him all the better.

That or volkite culverin and drown him in dice

Rad phage wound reduction sticks around all game.

Aye, as he's iwnd and can get his wounds back it's a case of stacking the phage until his toughness is low enough to hit him with all the plasma/melta/whatever you have enough of to double out, and force him to fail invulnerable with dice content

[Slips]

He Has Eternal Warrior so doubling out doesnt matter and rad phage doesnt stack with itself.

[1ncarnadine]

You almost have to mass plasma him but even then he's still got a 3++.

 

Truly ridiculous, he could be 50-100 pts more expensive and a LoW and he would still be a powerful option.

 

I'm afb and can't check but how does he do against dreadnoughts? He only has the two machinator armorbane attacks right? Maybe a Leviathan's severing claw would help, or the rare WB Mhara Gal's ghost razor attacks. But then you still have to contend with a probable automata guard with buffed initiative..

[TompiQ]

You almost have to mass plasma him but even then he's still got a 3++.

 

Truly ridiculous, he could be 50-100 pts more expensive and a LoW and he would still be a powerful option.

 

I'm afb and can't check but how does he do against dreadnoughts? He only has the two machinator armorbane attacks right? Maybe a Leviathan's severing claw would help, or the rare WB Mhara Gal's ghost razor attacks. But then you still have to contend with a probable automata guard with buffed initiative..

 

His sceptre deals an automatic hull point in damage per hit. So he's as brutal versus walkers as he is versus non-AV foes.

 

Truly brutal, he is the one character in the game that beats Horus in a mathhammer fight.

[1ncarnadine]

Ah yeah, I semi-remembered he had some other anti-vehicle rule but just couldn't recall it. He has soooo many rules.

 

I guess on the very brightest side, he can't tank against shooting for a bodyguard of automata due to Patris Cybernetica...

[Terminus]

You can't be any sorrier if you choose to mess with Scoria!

[helterskelter]

He Has Eternal Warrior so doubling out doesnt matter and rad phage doesnt stack with itself.

Sorry allow me to clarify was at work so was thinking mainly about grass :p

What I meant by doubling out, was that he doesn't get his FNP thus reducing his insane survivability a touch.

Didn't know you couldn't just keep pummelling people with rad missiles so my mistake there :)

However calculated risks therein after would be a radnade toting forgelord and powerfist toting squads of terminators

Maybe a techmarine with combat servitors.

Hopefully done enough via shooting and then the charge after should end him all being favourable.

Granted you probably have to throw daft numbers of dice to do it but pressure application eventually works if you do it right. Right? *looks nervous at armies containing scoria*

[Charlo]

You would just need to suicide a unit of power-fist terminators or the like as you say Helter. Maybe Red Butchers could do it, but they'd only be wounding on 5s?

[Slips]

Firedrakes and IF PF/CF/TH&SS Termies might have the resilience and punch necessary to, if not bog him down for long enough, potentially off him.

 

Or, a 20 Man WE Inductii Squad.

 

Or a Full Strength Fearless/Rending Levy Squad. 

 

If quality can't do it, volume might.

[Charlo]

*maniacal laugh*

"You post-human vermin cannot hope to defeat Scoria!"

*20 inductii mob him*

"Oh.... Oh God.... No.... NOOO. Not like this.... Not like thiiiiisssssss!"

*Chain axes whir*

 

A heap of metal with bloddied robes are on the floor where Scoria used to be... Surrounded by the bodies of 20 inductii.

 

*Karn faces the camera and gives a thumbs up*

[Runefyre]

There's also the new psychic powers which FW okayed for Legion Librarians, and there's one power that reduces enemy invuln saves by -2.

[Charlo]

There's also the new psychic powers which FW okayed for Legion Librarians, and there's one power that reduces enemy invuln saves by -2.

 

They most certainly have NOT okayed them for Legions :P

 

The post in question was a "...Sure, why not?" response. Those powers would drastically alter 30k IMO, especially for Word Bearers.

[Runefyre]

I fail to see how a "sure, why not" doesn't come off as a yes (I get it's not an "official" "yes" response and still up to personal/communal interpretation)

Though even for WB's, psychic powers aren't super reliable and more for having fun. Which the new psychic powers do look like a lot of fun (at least for me). None of them look that gamebreaking and the strongest powers still suffer from the randomness that limits psychic power competitiveness.

Anyway (back on topic, sorry 'bout that ) psychic powers can be a gimmicky (but fun) way to counter mechanicum's tougher units (I'm looking at you psychic shriek).

[Charlo]

I'd argue that in the Heresy, some of them are game breaking - especially Primarch first turn charges and such, but a different topic entirely!

 

Would an Auto-cannon heavy squad get good mileage against Mechanicum? Seems like it'd make money against Vorax and possibly force saves on Casrellax etc.

 

Plus deal with blobs and AV12.

[disease]

I forgot to mention earlier, Scoria can use battlesmith and cyberthurgy to restore wounds to him / his unit, you know, just incase.

 

Honestly, smother him in stuff and tie him up. I think that is all you can do

[Terminus]

I fail to see how a "sure, why not" doesn't come off as a yes (I get it's not an "official" "yes" response and still up to personal/communal interpretation)

Though even for WB's, psychic powers aren't super reliable and more for having fun. Which the new psychic powers do look like a lot of fun (at least for me). None of them look that gamebreaking and the strongest powers still suffer from the randomness that limits psychic power competitiveness.

Anyway (back on topic, sorry 'bout that ) psychic powers can be a gimmicky (but fun) way to counter mechanicum's tougher units (I'm looking at you psychic shriek).

Did you read them closely? They are game breaking in 40K, much less 30K. Librarius, Fulmentarus or Geomancy have some crazy stuff, and the machine one would be useful depending on what you're running too. When you can teleport a squad of 10 terminators and a Primarch for a first turn charge, or move entire terrain pieces with all the models that are on them, they are literally God-like power in the game.

The Thousand Sons who will probably have a lot of psyker stuff going on would wreck all the faces with these powers.

[The laughing raven]

So I know a lot of players obsess over spec characters, but are there any good tactics for dealing with the troops etc such as if your opponent has 15 kataphron things with grav cannons, my group play 2-2500pt games and all the mech p[layers field at least 9 of these a game, managed to kill them all off once when i managed to sneak my breachers in to combat but they were all that was left by this point, what are other peoples cures for non primarch games as such?

[Slips]

Well, your main problem is playing 40k vs 30k which means things are already imbalanced in the favour of 40k.

 

Vs Mechanicum (different to Adeptus Mechanicus) its less of a problem since they have Less, but tougher, models on the table and dont have acess to (as much) 40k Grav.

 

+++

 

Define Non-Primarch Games.

[The laughing raven]

Fair enough on that, to be honest all the types of mech stuff are a little hard to distinguish as nearly all my opponents have been some forms of mech and I lose track which is which era, always played whfb and just read the novels, so catching up ;)

 

Non-primarch would be like 2500 or less where the lords of war choices are less common so more basic troops have to be used, many of the lists people post for advice are usually between 1000pt Zm forces up to 2500pts (such as the GoS force you helped me with)only the real hardcore/old school have collections above and if they do they rarely post lists unless it's to go with a painting display, (which I have to say make me green with envy sometimes!) thinking for the lower ranked generals with more limited means as such ;)