stuka06 Posted April 12, 2016 Share Posted April 12, 2016 Greetings fellow Battle Brothers, While trying to assemble a Command Squad for the looming ETL, I looked our Codex and the question the entry of the Command Squad loadout presents. Can an Apothecary get additional war gear? Can the Company Champion get additional war gear. To me, that wouldn't really make sense. Why wouldn't I be able to give a melee oriented character a storm shield for better protection.Are they really so confined within the roles they serve in the Chapter that they don't have a say in what they carry with them? Even if we go by rules as written, it's tough to decipher. Can one give a "Veteran" additional wargear and then upgrade them to an Apothecary? I get that giving the Standard to one of these characters gives some kind of indication that maybe they are not just veterans? How would you actually handle it in a game, because that for me, is what it is all about. Would you protest, if someone would give the Apothecary a special weapon. Or even something like melta bombs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Lucifer Posted April 12, 2016 Share Posted April 12, 2016 At this point no one can say which way is the most correct. Some give special equipment to the vets and then upgrade to specialists, others will upgrade to specialists first and are barred from any further upgrades m Until it's faq'ed it's up to you and your gaming group to decide. If it's for ETL, consult Captain Semper to know how you can handle it. Me, I play it safe and my specialists only carry their specialist warhead. I prefer to not raise any discussion on something I can't back up 100% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackTriton Posted April 12, 2016 Share Posted April 12, 2016 As far as my group is concerned; Since Apo and champion have a different entrie, they are not veteran. order of operation does not matter, a apo cannot have the equipment of a veteran since he is no longer a veteran. this is base on the fact that in the writing of the rules for unit that can have a sergent upgraded to a veteran sergent, they feel the need to write: a sergent or veteran sergent can/may [...]. meaning that a sergent is not a veteran sergent, a upgrade purchasable for a sergent might not be for a veteran sergent and vice versa. thus we rulled no, a apo can not have a veteran loadout since he is not a veteran, since they have different entries. That sais, if someone have a convincing argument that suggest otherwise, let me know, i would like to field my combi-plasma apothecary. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cypher 102 Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 The way I've always seen it is that Apothecaries and Champions getting extra gear falls into the same boat as giving a Sergeant a heavy weapon or special weapon. If you look at the Scout squad you see that only Scouts can get the heavy weapon but "any model" can get a sniper rifle. This is one of those rules that traditionally ends up being 20 pages in the Official Rules forum because it's devolved into an argument over the English language. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interrogator Stobz Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 This has been discussed many many times in other threads here and in the OR; I go with the same interpretation as Brother BlackTriton above, an Apo is not a Vet (core rules about separate entries clarify that) and therefore can't be armed as one. There is no order of operations in that respect, it's the final result that must be compliant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CovertToaster Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 Let me put it this way. Battle scribe won't let you do it. I'm annoyed that a DW sarge can take TH/SS but a DW command squad sarge can't! Furthermore, you can't give an apothecary a SS but a DWK squad can take a perfidious relic and since that hands out adamantium will a Libby can be used to generate a 24" denial bubble via psychic hood! Seems like wonky rules writing to me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pigshead Posted April 14, 2016 Share Posted April 14, 2016 I'm at work and don't have the codex to hand, but isn't the DWCS sarge optional? Can you not just take any other terminator with TH/SS? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuka06 Posted April 15, 2016 Author Share Posted April 15, 2016 I'm at work and don't have the codex to hand, but isn't the DWCS sarge optional? Can you not just take any other terminator with TH/SS? He is The way I've always seen it is that Apothecaries and Champions getting extra gear falls into the same boat as giving a Sergeant a heavy weapon or special weapon. If you look at the Scout squad you see that only Scouts can get the heavy weapon but "any model" can get a sniper rifle. This is one of those rules that traditionally ends up being 20 pages in the Official Rules forum because it's devolved into an argument over the English language. This is a great point and imho signifies how the entries are written. While it may be strange, that you can't equip a Company Champion with Melta Bombs, It really actually doesn't say that you can, when other entries more specifically state what each profile may take Me, I play it safe and my specialists only carry their specialist warhead. I prefer to not raise any discussion on something I can't back up 100% That was basically the reasoning for my new topic. It didn't seem like there was an actually consensus so that's why I was unsure. @everyone: Thank you all for the great input. Maybe GW has to faq this just to clear it up, maybe change some of the options, but as of right now, I guess the writing is specific enough to say that the options have to mention the specific profiles. I will build my squad as such. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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