Ultramarine books

[Kriegsmacht]

Hey all

 

It's been a while since I read a 40k book. Was wondering if the Ultramarine books are alright. I'm not too concerned about differences to the lore as long as they're entertaining. Thanks

[Rob P]

Do you mean the Uriel Ventris ones? The Horus Heresy ones? or the other smattering of Ultramarine books out there?

[Prot]

In my opinion the best Ultramarine books are in the Horus Heresy category... by a mile.

 

I'll be honest and upfront and admit I really, really disliked the Uriel stuff. But for 'current' timelines in 40K I thought the Plague Harvest 3 book series (which is only a year or two old) is very fun. It might be the first book(s) that give you a glimpse of the operations of current units like Stormtalons and Centurions.

 

Going further back: And they shall know no fear - is very, very good. For me, Dan Abnett re-invented the era of how to write Ultramarines. They are far from the boring boy scouts you thought they were and this changes everything.

 

A 'hero' to come out of that is Aeonid Thiel. He is the "red marked" and his solo stories are short, but entertaining. (Nick Kyme did these and very well imho.... he seems to excel with this character for some reason.)

 

Those would be my 'introductory' suggestions into Ultramarines fiction.

[Kriegsmacht]

Sorry was typing on the phone didn't explain myself better. Already read know no fear but i was talking more about the uriel series or any Ultramarine books in 40k. I'm Not interested in horus heresy anymore.

 

Also saw a book i think involving them against tau at Damocles. Anyone read that yet?

[HeritorA]

Sorry was typing on the phone didn't explain myself better. Already read know no fear but i was talking more about the uriel series or any Ultramarine books in 40k. I'm Not interested in horus heresy anymore.

 

Also saw a book i think involving them against tau at Damocles. Anyone read that yet?

Horrible bolter porn from Phil Kelly. Young Sicarius in attendence

[Akylas]

I kind liked The Fall of Damnos. The Ventris series was ok, but not very representative of the Ultramarines. I remember someone here saying to treat it like Gotrek and Felix in space if you want to enjoy it.

[Kriegsmacht]

Would you say bolter porn is the equivalent to an '80s action movie like comando, Rambo 2 and 3, etc.? 80s would be ok with that if yes.

[Rob P]

If you like bolter porn (i.e. where the story is almost entirely about things getting shot at and shooting and battle) then try Fall of Damnos. When I first read it I thought it was so bad that I thought that people giving it positive reviews were ass kissing to get ARCs. I've now matured a bit and can accept that people like significantly different things, but it will never be my cup of tea. It was the first taste of the NEWcrons.

 

The Ventris series is alright. It's not really an Ultramarine novel in the sense that it follows a few specific characters that spend little time with the Ultramarine chapter. I thought The Killing Ground was decent.

 

I've not read the new Tau/Ultramarine one, but nowhere near as critical of Phil Kelly as others, so would give it a go.

[Kriegsmacht]

Thanks for the info. :)

[HeritorA]

Phil Kelly = NIck Kyme = unreadable bolter-porn for bolter-porn

[DarkChaplain]

That's a pretty bad overgeneralization. Kyme writes a bunch of stuff that is hardly involving bolters at all. Chirurgeon, for example. Even the action pieces he does are cleverer than mindless bolter porn.

[HeritorA]

That's a pretty bad overgeneralization. Kyme writes a bunch of stuff that is hardly involving bolters at all. Chirurgeon, for example. Even the action pieces he does are cleverer than mindless bolter porn.

But also he written Vulkan lives, Deathfire, and horribly horrible Salamanders W40K books

[Kriegsmacht]

I think thAt means he should work on a different legion/chapter. :d

[HeritorA]

I think thAt means he should work on a different legion/chapter.

Yeap

[Veteran Sergeant]

Have to agree on avoiding the McNeill series. It takes a long time to detail everything wrong with the series, but at the basic level, it presents an irrational and confusing picture of an Ultramarines chatper that, instead of being the "Greatest of all Space Marine Chapters" as they were called on the back of their 2nd Edition codex, they are instead a bunch of hidebound buffoons who argue about whether or not it is okay to use an improvised explosive device to destroy a bridge, and believe that reconnaissance forces should always engage the enemy whenever possible. Oh, and that is just in the prologue of the first Omnibus.

 

Those books basically read as if somebody who has no concept of strategy and tactics were to try to write a book where the characters describe the best practices for strategy and tactics. An "Ultramarines for Dummies", except where it's the dummy writing the book, rather than reading it.  McNeill has an easy time writing long, colorful combat prose, and a hard time writing battle scenes that make any sense.

 

Basically, only worth reading if you can't find anything else to read. He tends to do better when he's not writing about Space Marines. I thought the Priests of Mars books were okay, for example. They're riddled with editing errors (characters losing arms and the magically getting them back, characters running out of ammo in one scene but having more ammo in the next), but I want to put that on Black Library as much as McNeill himself.

[Kelborn]

Though A Thousand Sons was awesome. ;)

 

But I agree. Looking back on the UM books (which were my first Warhammer books), they are kind of meh. Especially that one with Tau involving. Hoped to get a great book with UM vs. Tau.

What did I get?

Purest bolterporn... :/ (story was not good, battle scenes where just like: shooting here OH a new enemy! CHARGE! shooting shooting slicing - didn't enjoyed it; Damocles was way better)

[DarkChaplain]

Gotta remember that the series is from a very different time in Black Library's history. Nightbringer was one of the earliest novels, wasn't it?

For what it's worth, I am still very fond of Nightbringer and Warriors of Ultramar, but Black Sky, Dead Sun dragged on far too much for my liking.

The Killing Ground was alright, but doesn't mesh so well with up-to-date background material.

 

Which is true for the whole series, I'd say. There have been so many revisions and changes to the Ultramarines in particular that expectations and standards have shifted greatly since back then. Still, even by today's standards, and with all the authors who wrote Ultramarines since, all of McNeill's works are still leagues ahead of Dan Abnett's script for the Ultramarines movie, and the graphic novel prequel.

[HeritorA]

Gotta remember that the series is from a very different time in Black Library's history. Nightbringer was one of the earliest novels, wasn't it?

For what it's worth, I am still very fond of Nightbringer and Warriors of Ultramar, but Black Sky, Dead Sun dragged on far too much for my liking.

The Killing Ground was alright, but doesn't mesh so well with up-to-date background material.

 

Which is true for the whole series, I'd say. There have been so many revisions and changes to the Ultramarines in particular that expectations and standards have shifted greatly since back then. Still, even by today's standards, and with all the authors who wrote Ultramarines since, all of McNeill's works are still leagues ahead of Dan Abnett's script for the Ultramarines movie, and the graphic novel prequel.

 

Nightbringer was the first McNeil Ultrasmurfs novel. At that point they still had some charisma and brains. In every book after that their characters and any love for them was eroded piece by piece.