Blood Angels in 30k, any experiences?

[Indefragable]

Looking for people's experiences using BA in Horus Heresy/"30k" games. 

 

Specifically, I am most interested to hear your thoughts/experiences on the Encarmine Fury Special Rule that means ALL BA units get +1 To Wound (-1 mathematically?) in melee. So, BA Tacticals ALWAYS wound other Tactical Marines on a 3+ before buffs from weapons, powers, etc... Punching out T3 models at 2+, etc... BA Tacticals would be wounding Nurgle Bikers on 5+, for example. That also means that BA can engage pretty much anything in melee, since stuff that would be out of reach (T8, T9, etc...) can be hurt on 6's now (if I understand the rule correctly). 

 

 

To me, the above-mentioned Encarmine Fury rule is probably the single best thing I have heard of for Blood Angels, especially since it's in ALL melee, regardless of whether or not you charged. 

 

I am wondering if that is an indication of the direction a future update for 40k BA may go. 

 

 

[The Pyrofessional]

I'm just waiting for the sanguinius model.

[Charlo]

In 30k BA are the shock and awe legion, as was thier way in the great crusade.

 

Encarmine Fury is really good and means that with a power axe you hurt things as efficiently as with a powerfist (as long as it's not a vehicle of course!)

 

The hand flamers/ inferno pistols (while expensive at 15pts each) are super good too, an extra attack in melee plus special weapon level shooting? Aces.

 

The Centurion and above accessible Blade of  Perdition is downright incredible and better than a Paragon blade in most cases, being ap2 and Initiative and making all wounds caused double, each needing to be saved separately. So yes, your HQ can kill twice as many models as he has attacks!

 

Then there is of course the hilarious Assault Cannon Spam. A personal favorite is attack bikes with assault cannons with an attached Preator/ Primus Medicae (super apothecary) on a bike with a Perdition Blade. Insanity.

 

Then you tie this package all together with thier Rite of War, the day of revelation that provides a massive boost to jump infantry. Lots more detail can be found on 1D4Chan and the BA tactics thread in the Heresy section of the forum. but shout out to destoryer marines who, with all of this combined can:

 

-Deep Strike Turn One.

-Gain 5+ Cover (not shrouded/ stealth so stackable with those OR if you are super mean a dread drop pod that if the enemy shoots through you get a 3+ Cover)

-Shoot with Twin Bolt Pistols and ap2 missiles that reduce toughness of models hit (if they don't die, note: NOT units).

-That cause pinning.

-Next turn you can charge and you wound on a 2+ in combat thanks to Fury and Rad Grenades

-Oh and you get +1 Initiative.

 

 

A bit of word vomit but hopefully some useful stuff.

[Blindhamster]

I've only played them in zone mortalis since they got rules so haven't used the rites of war yet. But I can testify to the blade of Perdition being amazing, allowing our characters that have it to be able to hold their own even vs groups of TEQ where most wouldn't be able to.

 

We aren't a close combat army really at this time as we lack the dedicated cc units to make it really work, but if we do get into a fight we'll do okay.

 

 

A note on encarmine fury, the concensus is that if you cannot normally wound something, you still can't because a wound of - cannot be improved.

[Indefragable]

In 30k BA are the shock and awe legion, as was thier way in the great crusade.

 

Encarmine Fury is really good and means that with a power axe you hurt things as efficiently as with a powerfist (as long as it's not a vehicle of course!)

 

The hand flamers/ inferno pistols (while expensive at 15pts each) are super good too, an extra attack in melee plus special weapon level shooting? Aces.

 

The Centurion and above accessible Blade of  Perdition is downright incredible and better than a Paragon blade in most cases, being ap2 and Initiative and making all wounds caused double, each needing to be saved separately. So yes, your HQ can kill twice as many models as he has attacks!

 

Then there is of course the hilarious Assault Cannon Spam. A personal favorite is attack bikes with assault cannons with an attached Preator/ Primus Medicae (super apothecary) on a bike with a Perdition Blade. Insanity.

 

Then you tie this package all together with thier Rite of War, the day of revelation that provides a massive boost to jump infantry. Lots more detail can be found on 1D4Chan and the BA tactics thread in the Heresy section of the forum. but shout out to destoryer marines who, with all of this combined can:

 

-Deep Strike Turn One.

-Gain 5+ Cover (not shrouded/ stealth so stackable with those OR if you are super mean a dread drop pod that if the enemy shoots through you get a 3+ Cover)

-Shoot with Twin Bolt Pistols and ap2 missiles that reduce toughness of models hit (if they don't die, note: NOT units).

-That cause pinning.

-Next turn you can charge and you wound on a 2+ in combat thanks to Fury and Rad Grenades

-Oh and you get +1 Initiative.

 

 

A bit of word vomit but hopefully some useful stuff.

 

Sounds glorious! 

 

Just the way it should be!

 

My impressions from reading through the 1d4chan articles on it is that BA and Salamanders have some of the biggest differences between 30k and 40k (Traitor Legions that get demonized and so forth, not withstanding), with the 30k versions really capturing both the fluff and crunch so much better than the 40k versions. This is not to lament or gripe, but rather it gives me hope that this is the direction BA in 40k will start to head, whenever GW's gaze returns to us. 

 

 

Sidenote: 30k Alpha Legion is hilariously awesome. 

[Indefragable]

A note on encarmine fury, the concensus is that if you cannot normally wound something, you still can't because a wound of - cannot be improved.

 

Ah. That's the kind of thing I was wondering about. I read the rule as saying shift the To Wound table one column to the left, but I can see how this reads the way you say. I am a bit wary, since too many players err on the side of whatever benefits them. I am trying to be self-aware about that, but I would certainly discuss with each and every opponent because even in my pretty friendly meta, there are people who tend to err on the side of "nope...it doesn't work that way for you but it does for me." 

[Charlo]

You'd be right.

 

They don't have LOADS of differences, as really they pretty much play like furious charge, +1 initiative marines with special pistols in both 30 & 40k. But the extra stuff they do have just makes them a little more awesome.

[Blindhamster]

I'd say there isn't much of a difference at all. 40k have more unique about them currently in fact. But the 30k version are likely to get more in a year or two

[Indefragable]

I'd say there isn't much of a difference at all. 40k have more unique about them currently in fact. But the 30k version are likely to get more in a year or two

 

40k have more unique units but 30k have more unique rules. 

 

Personally, IMO, I like the 30k flavor a little bit better. Captures the idea of being true CQC beasts a bit better. I'm hoping we get some combo of both in the near future, but I am at peace with the current state of Blood Angels. Reached Stage 5 of the Grief cycle of Wh40k. 

[Blindhamster]

They both get a strength buffing rule. But in 30k you have a limit on how many non infantry units can be taken.

 

In 30k you CAN take one of two formations, one which is kind of sucky and one which is good but relies on a terrible 30k unit.

 

The good one gives a bonus to init on the turn we charge, 1st turn deep strike coupled with mandatory jump packs and some restrictions to what can be used. plus a requirement to challenge, there is a cover save to make deep striking assault squads a teeny bit safer and pinning shooting which will only occasionally useful.

 

In 40k, you have a strike force that grants an init bonus or some formations that grant various other rules.

 

In 40k you have unique psychic powers and unique Warlord traits.

 

 

Note that i'm. Not poo pooing 30k, I have enjoyed playing it with the new rules, but it doesn't have anything beyond the 40k BA really, particularly when a lot of the time you won't use a BA rite of war.

[evildrcheese]

I've played a number of HH games at 1k with BA. I really like the 1 less to wound buff, it's so much better than FC in two ways. First off it's not just in the first round of combat, and most importantly since it's a permanent ability it's can't be nullified by someone taking charging you!

 

The only thing I'm sad about for our 30k rules is that there isn't a Lucifer pattern engine (fast vehicles) anywhere in sight. :(

 

EDC

[Phiasco]

I've come to the conclusion that I'm going to wait to see what our other special rules and units will be before trying to pin down what works and what doesn't for 30k. From what I have played, I have to agree with the others that Blade of Perdition are wonderful.

[The4thHorseman]

I've come to the conclusion that I'm going to wait to see what our other special rules and units will be before trying to pin down what works and what doesn't for 30k. From what I have played, I have to agree with the others that Blade of Perdition are wonderful.

 

Yea the Blade is crazy good. Wiped a whole squad of Terminators with spill over wounds from a Challenge.

[Charlo]

I think our special units will be the following:

 

-Veteran Assault Squad: Like Veterans, maybe wthout heavy weapon access but more access to combat weapons, pistols, special weapons and some different veteran tactics. Also Jump Packs of course.

 

-Sanguinary Guard: Flying Tartaros Terminators/ EC Palatine Blades on Steroids. They'll have an invuln in the Heresy and Glaive Encarmine will be much better. At least my bet.

 

-Wild Card: Maybe something totally unexpected? Has happened with others (Ultras units for example).

 

-Sanguinius.

[evildrcheese]

I hope we get a chariot type thing, based solely on an image from the Visions of Hersey book.

 

EDC

[Charlo]

I hope we get a chariot type thing, based solely on an image from the Visions of Hersey book.

 

EDC

 

Me too... I even started to convert my own pattern of them a few months back, to count at jetbikes/ Thunder Wolf Cavalry or something....

 

http://i1380.photobucket.com/albums/ah177/nevscorner/Snapchat--1405299609692188393_zpsnbzesadx.jpg

http://i1380.photobucket.com/albums/ah177/nevscorner/Snapchat-782636747449071555_zpsqcxd66fr.jpg

[Indefragable]

 

I hope we get a chariot type thing, based solely on an image from the Visions of Hersey book.

 

EDC

 

Me too... I even started to convert my own pattern of them a few months back, to count at jetbikes/ Thunder Wolf Cavalry or something....

 

 

 

 

 

 

To each his own...I can appreciate your excellent conversion skills but chariots are NOT my cup of tea. Santa Grimnar breaks the willing suspension of disbelief, IMO. Not knocking on your guys' hopes and dreams, just a chariot is definitely not something I would be interested in any way, shape, or form. 

[The Pyrofessional]

I think our special units will be the following:

 

-Veteran Assault Squad: Like Veterans, maybe wthout heavy weapon access but more access to combat weapons, pistols, special weapons and some different veteran tactics. Also Jump Packs of course.

 

-Sanguinary Guard: Flying Tartaros Terminators/ EC Palatine Blades on Steroids. They'll have an invuln in the Heresy and Glaive Encarmine will be much better. At least my bet.

 

-Wild Card: Maybe something totally unexpected? Has happened with others (Ultras units for example).

 

-Sanguinius.

Maybe fast tank

[Indefragable]

I think our special units will be the following:

 

-Veteran Assault Squad: Like Veterans, maybe wthout heavy weapon access but more access to combat weapons, pistols, special weapons and some different veteran tactics. Also Jump Packs of course.

 

-Sanguinary Guard: Flying Tartaros Terminators/ EC Palatine Blades on Steroids. They'll have an invuln in the Heresy and Glaive Encarmine will be much better. At least my bet.

 

-Wild Card: Maybe something totally unexpected? Has happened with others (Ultras units for example).

 

-Sanguinius.

 

My money is on Sanguinius being the last Primarch they release. Probably the last book in the Primarchs series as well. I am ok with that, in part because I want them to do both right and because it makes sense to have the big finale of both series be Battle of Terra/duel between Sanguinius and Horus. I am also willing to bet they come out with a "Chaos-Infused Horus" HH Character model around that time as well. And even the Big E himself. That's my guess. 

 

For HH, it will certainly be interesting to see what they come out with.

 

DREAMLAND TIME:

Perhaps my biggest personal wishlist item is that they make Sanguinary Guard in 40k as awesome as they deserve. AT LEAST make Encarmine Blades have the same stat lines as Relic Blades (S+2 AP3 Melee, Two-handed)...yes that would make SG S7 on the Charge but that's the point. I also would LOVE for them to have Monster Hunter and Fleet. That way, they are the MC-hunters of the Codex, going toe-to-toe with the big scary beasts of the galaxy (just like the Primarch they hung out with). I know it's unrealistic, given that they are essentially vanilla Honor Guard with wings. I just think they are woefully weak in the current codex compared to their fluff: they are the 30 best members (who haven't fallen to the Black Rage) of the Chapter best known for melee prowess, who are hand-picked for their badassery. Their rules should reflect that, even if they costs 75pts a model. But again, to each his own and that's my personal wishlist. 

[Charlo]

Because of how they fit into things and the way the books are currently planned out, Jaghatai Khan will be the last Primarch they do - if not Alpharius (because Alpharius) or even Dorn. Long explanation hidden below as not to clog the topic.

 

Hidden Content

Because of the time-line there is even a chance we will see Demon Angron before we see him!

 

Basically Book 7 is Prospero so that is Magnus and Russ. They've said these are in production (we've seen a preview of Russ) and will be out next.

 

Book 8 is either going to be DA & BA OR Calth 2 (hence the Demon Angron). Dorn is apparently very low on the Priority list as IF weren't even supposed to be in book 3. They did the Iron warrior and decided to tell the story of Phall so put them in as well. There is a reason the IF units are all upgrade kits and not full sculpts ;)

 

ON TOPIC though!

 

I've got no actual 30k experience myself, I don't even play that much 40k, but I am a god damn rules sponge and practically spend my days on this bloody forum :P

 

I just want the SG to be represented well and have actually hyped myself up for Veteran Assault Squads.... Although I'm sure we could end up with a more, interesting unit choice perhaps.

[The Pyrofessional]

 

 

 

I think our special units will be the following:

 

-Veteran Assault Squad: Like Veterans, maybe wthout heavy weapon access but more access to combat weapons, pistols, special weapons and some different veteran tactics. Also Jump Packs of course.

 

-Sanguinary Guard: Flying Tartaros Terminators/ EC Palatine Blades on Steroids. They'll have an invuln in the Heresy and Glaive Encarmine will be much better. At least my bet.

 

-Wild Card: Maybe something totally unexpected? Has happened with others (Ultras units for example).

 

-Sanguinius.

 

My money is on Sanguinius being the last Primarch they release. Probably the last book in the Primarchs series as well. I am ok with that, in part because I want them to do both right and because it makes sense to have the big finale of both series be Battle of Terra/duel between Sanguinius and Horus. I am also willing to bet they come out with a "Chaos-Infused Horus" HH Character model around that time as well. And even the Big E himself. That's my guess. 

 

For HH, it will certainly be interesting to see what they come out with.

 

DREAMLAND TIME:

Perhaps my biggest personal wishlist item is that they make Sanguinary Guard in 40k as awesome as they deserve. AT LEAST make Encarmine Blades have the same stat lines as Relic Blades (S+2 AP3 Melee, Two-handed)...yes that would make SG S7 on the Charge but that's the point. I also would LOVE for them to have Monster Hunter and Fleet. That way, they are the MC-hunters of the Codex, going toe-to-toe with the big scary beasts of the galaxy (just like the Primarch they hung out with). I know it's unrealistic, given that they are essentially vanilla Honor Guard with wings. I just think they are woefully weak in the current codex compared to their fluff: they are the 30 best members (who haven't fallen to the Black Rage) of the Chapter best known for melee prowess, who are hand-picked for their badassery. Their rules should reflect that, even if they costs 75pts a model. But again, to each his own and that's my personal wishlist. 

 

Or even a invulnerable save..5++.

[m0nolith]

In 30k BA are the shock and awe legion, as was thier way in the great crusade.

 

Encarmine Fury is really good and means that with a power axe you hurt things as efficiently as with a powerfist (as long as it's not a vehicle of course!)

 

The hand flamers/ inferno pistols (while expensive at 15pts each) are super good too, an extra attack in melee plus special weapon level shooting? Aces.

 

The Centurion and above accessible Blade of  Perdition is downright incredible and better than a Paragon blade in most cases, being ap2 and Initiative and making all wounds caused double, each needing to be saved separately. So yes, your HQ can kill twice as many models as he has attacks!

 

Then there is of course the hilarious Assault Cannon Spam. A personal favorite is attack bikes with assault cannons with an attached Preator/ Primus Medicae (super apothecary) on a bike with a Perdition Blade. Insanity.

 

Then you tie this package all together with thier Rite of War, the day of revelation that provides a massive boost to jump infantry. Lots more detail can be found on 1D4Chan and the BA tactics thread in the Heresy section of the forum. but shout out to destoryer marines who, with all of this combined can:

 

-Deep Strike Turn One.

-Gain 5+ Cover (not shrouded/ stealth so stackable with those OR if you are super mean a dread drop pod that if the enemy shoots through you get a 3+ Cover)

-Shoot with Twin Bolt Pistols and ap2 missiles that reduce toughness of models hit (if they don't die, note: NOT units).

-That cause pinning.

-Next turn you can charge and you wound on a 2+ in combat thanks to Fury and Rad Grenades

-Oh and you get +1 Initiative.

 

 

A bit of word vomit but hopefully some useful stuff.

Pretty much all of this.

 

The clear winners of book 6 were clearly White Scars, but we ended up doing pretty well too.

Poor Dark Angels players tho...

 

 

Edit: Also, Id like to seriously emphesize the assault cannon spam. 

A Leviathan dropped in with an assault cannon in each hand and assault cannon nipples....yes, ohhhh yes!

[ElectricPaladin]

My impressions from reading through the 1d4chan articles on it is that BA and Salamanders have some of the biggest differences between 30k and 40k (Traitor Legions that get demonized and so forth, not withstanding), with the 30k versions really capturing both the fluff and crunch so much better than the 40k versions. This is not to lament or gripe, but rather it gives me hope that this is the direction BA in 40k will start to head, whenever GW's gaze returns to us. 

 

I play Salamanders in Heresy and Blood Angels in 40k, and I can attest that both of these statements are true. I am really enjoying my 30k Salamanders. They have a lot of flavor and are a lot of fun.

[m0nolith]

And one more thing.

Keep in mind if you run the Day of Revelation Rite of war, the 5+ cover save you get when you arrive via deep strike, this applies to all deep striking units.

Dreadnaughts, Leviathans, Storm Eagles carrying 20 pissed off chainwsord wielding red guys, it all gets 5+ on the turn it arrives.

[Charlo]

Leviathans are moot because the pod it comes in is a 2hp void shield with 5+ cover when it arrives anyway, plus a 4++ native but everything else is a great point!

 

Especially the Storm eagles.