GreyCrow Posted April 20, 2016 Share Posted April 20, 2016 Hello guys ! Just out of curiosity, since the new Red Book came out, how would you rate the new Legions in top, middle and bottom tiers ? I know this is an arbitrary measure depending on many factors, but I'm curious about your take on that ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/321659-since-the-new-red-book-what-new-legion-ratings/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted April 20, 2016 Share Posted April 20, 2016 Even. No, seriously. None of the legions (at least those will full unit support) are bad now. They've all got inherent Strengths and Weaknesses. I think from a pure HOLY CRAP stand point though SoH are up there. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/321659-since-the-new-red-book-what-new-legion-ratings/#findComment-4371103 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevatar Posted April 20, 2016 Share Posted April 20, 2016 Interesting question. I would say the top Legions are now the Sons of Horus, the Night Lords and the Alpha Legion. The AL have superb flexibility due to their rules - Tank Hunter is superb. The Night Lords +1 to hit and +1 to wound is killer while the additional rules of 5+ cover save and Night Vision (as well as the trivial penalty of a leadership check) mean they are arguably the top Legion. The SoH have been boosted with the addition of Death Dealers. Previously it was a struggle to outnumber opponents so this ties in well with Merciless Fighers. Slightly below these 3 are the Raven Guard and the Emperor's Children. The +1 to iniative on the charge the EC benefit from, as well as Crusader is a key benefit in marine vs marine conflicts as are the Sonic Shriekers. The only slight consolation is that they lack the punch of the NL or SoH. While Furious Charge isn't something to shout about the Infiltrate the RG benefit from is good for alpha strikes and simple positioning. The Legions that stand out as the worst by far are the Dark Angels. Masters of the Blade is a poorly written rule indeed. It only activates if you have a blade weapon and have equal weapon skill. They should at least have given +1 to hit - a Praetor with a Paragon Blade will gain nothing from it against plain Tactical Marines while Terminators and models nor will power axes, mauls or spears. The Covenant of Death is crippling too in tight games. Just plain disappointing. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/321659-since-the-new-red-book-what-new-legion-ratings/#findComment-4371138 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Asvaldir Posted April 20, 2016 Share Posted April 20, 2016 I mostly agree with Charlo, among all the legions with unique units/characters, they are all pretty balanced and can all do well. Pretty much everyone has a good RoW to run now, and most legions have a good unique unit as well, certainly couldn't go wrong with any legion. That being said, I do think the three new legions from book 6, in particular the Dark Angels, are a bit behind in power levels. Sure, DA have a bunch of special equipment, but most of it is fairly sub par, and both their RoWs are super restrictive. BA are doing better since their assault rite is not bad, but they really need a unique jump infantry unit before they can shine. White scars are definetly the best off of the three, enhanced biker armies are just always going to be solid in the current iteration of 40k rules so no surprise there. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/321659-since-the-new-red-book-what-new-legion-ratings/#findComment-4371161 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quixus Posted April 20, 2016 Share Posted April 20, 2016 So how do the legions compare to the other 30K factions (Solar Auxilia, Mechanicum etc.) BTW does 30k have rules for battles against Xenos of that era or would they get their normal 40K rules? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/321659-since-the-new-red-book-what-new-legion-ratings/#findComment-4371182 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted April 20, 2016 Share Posted April 20, 2016 No Xenos Rules. They suggest houseruling stuff to permit larger xenos squad sizes for their troops and that they only use the AoD FoC otherwise, nothing. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/321659-since-the-new-red-book-what-new-legion-ratings/#findComment-4371205 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElectricPaladin Posted April 20, 2016 Share Posted April 20, 2016 My legion is the best. The legion I've got a few models for that I run in Shattered Legions lists is the second best legion. Your legion sucks. There. That's it. Thread over. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/321659-since-the-new-red-book-what-new-legion-ratings/#findComment-4371206 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted April 20, 2016 Share Posted April 20, 2016 ಠ_ಠ +++ I'd like to know, Grey, why you're so interested in categorizing the various Legions in this way. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/321659-since-the-new-red-book-what-new-legion-ratings/#findComment-4371210 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted April 20, 2016 Share Posted April 20, 2016 ಠ_ಠ +++ I'd like to know, Grey, why you're so interested in categorizing the various Legions in this way. Because he still hasn't chosen a legion and wan't someone else to decide for him :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/321659-since-the-new-red-book-what-new-legion-ratings/#findComment-4371231 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElectricPaladin Posted April 20, 2016 Share Posted April 20, 2016 ಠ_ಠ +++ I'd like to know, Grey, why you're so interested in categorizing the various Legions in this way. Because he still hasn't chosen a legion and wan't someone else to decide for him That's easy. He should play Salamanders, because we're the best. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/321659-since-the-new-red-book-what-new-legion-ratings/#findComment-4371236 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kastor Krieg Posted April 20, 2016 Share Posted April 20, 2016 That's easy. He should play Templars, because they are the most zealous. *khem!* Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/321659-since-the-new-red-book-what-new-legion-ratings/#findComment-4371265 Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted April 20, 2016 Share Posted April 20, 2016 SoH and NLs definitely the highest, though I've yet to see all legions play eachother. I wouldn't discount the WEs especially after Gahlan Surlak and the subtle rules buffs they got. Inductii are absolutely terrifying and are the best, if not best contender, for basic tacticals in terms of killyness. I'm kinda glad everything has moved towards close ranged/assault legions as long range duels get boring. I think infiltrating legions have lost a bit of their luster due to these short range legions and Mechanicum being so anti infiltrate/cover. After watching MWG Steve use the new Ironfire RoW, I'm pretty convinced of how good it is - making IWs upper mid tier. These are a few armies you'd have uphill battles against IMHO at the moment: 1.) SoH 2.) NLs 3.) WEs 4.) IWs 5.) BAs (sleeper hit with great cc and nipple cannons everywhere) 6.) Mechanicus 7.) Solar Auxilia **note: not in any particular order Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/321659-since-the-new-red-book-what-new-legion-ratings/#findComment-4371267 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElectricPaladin Posted April 20, 2016 Share Posted April 20, 2016 That's easy. He should play Salamanders, because they are actually a legion. *khem!* Fixed that for you. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/321659-since-the-new-red-book-what-new-legion-ratings/#findComment-4371273 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreyCrow Posted April 20, 2016 Author Share Posted April 20, 2016 I do have trouble deciding on something, there are so many good stuff around (and can't collect them all :D ). Also a huge fan of the underdogs and the least represented Legions, usually there are some gems lying around. I also don't want to seem to be jumping on any bandwagon (I know that some Legions really needed the love of the good book !). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/321659-since-the-new-red-book-what-new-legion-ratings/#findComment-4371276 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quixus Posted April 20, 2016 Share Posted April 20, 2016 Because he still hasn't chosen a legion and wan't someone else to decide for him For the undecided, use the XX. They can play on both sides of the Heresy and they can even take the signature units of other legions ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/321659-since-the-new-red-book-what-new-legion-ratings/#findComment-4371291 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreyCrow Posted April 20, 2016 Author Share Posted April 20, 2016 But how would they fit within the level of power of the Legions ? I remember that when they came out, they were considered pretty OP. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/321659-since-the-new-red-book-what-new-legion-ratings/#findComment-4371311 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted April 20, 2016 Share Posted April 20, 2016 Doesn't matter. Honestly, you will have more fun in the Heresy by following your heart. That is what it's all about in this side of the hobby. I kept trying to stray becauae of poweful rules or the like but I always came back to DG. They just settled with me. Until BA get a full release of course ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/321659-since-the-new-red-book-what-new-legion-ratings/#findComment-4371326 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caillum Posted April 20, 2016 Share Posted April 20, 2016 Alpha Legion are still pretty powerful. Can wreck armour with army-wide Tank Hunters, and armour is king in 30k. Reserves manipulation is surprisingly good too. Unique units are uninspiring, but Dynat, Skorr and especially Alpharius make them brilliant. Sons of Horus gaining Death Dealer has brought them up to the top tier too as everyone has said. Add in the Justaerin super-buff and they can do as well as any Legion. Night Lords were already strong after the FAQ boosted Terror Assault, but gaining +1 to hit with Talent for Murder has made them truly scary (pun completely intended). World Eaters can run exactly like they should now - large blobs of Despoilers screaming forward with Gahlan Surlak messing with the 'nails. Many armies cannot deal with combat monsters like them. As for the new Legions: Dark Angels copped the worst Legion rules of all. Too specific in their bonuses and far too harsh in their penalties. Would rather take Stubborn/Furious Charge. Blood Angels look fine. Day of Revelations RoW is perfectly tuned to boost them (and Assault Marines in general). Cool wargear, cool rules. White Scars are the best of the new 3. Chogorian Brotherhood is very, very good, as are power glaives. Only issue is the £-cost of running a Jetbike army. Mechanicum are still strong as hell, especially since their Red Book hit. Solar Auxilia are likewise bloody strong - underestimate them at your peril. Imperialis Militia & Cults is cool, but haven't seen anything super powerful from them - best use is Fearless bodies in an Allied Detachment. Questoris Knights are what they are - an army of Lords of War is hard to face. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/321659-since-the-new-red-book-what-new-legion-ratings/#findComment-4371329 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted April 20, 2016 Share Posted April 20, 2016 People really :cuss on DA but I think they're fine. They just require a bit more finesse to use but Iron Wing/ Raven wing especially is quite Brutal. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/321659-since-the-new-red-book-what-new-legion-ratings/#findComment-4371333 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother-Chaplain Kage Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 Who cares about the power ratings? If that's your basis for choosing which Legion to play, you're choosing it for the wrong reasons. I'm also getting really tired of seeing these kinds of threads pop up because it's mostly opinions and no facts, and quickly turns into a downward spiral that gets locked. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/321659-since-the-new-red-book-what-new-legion-ratings/#findComment-4371382 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminus Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 Grey has been at this quite some time. He jumped from legion to legion, finally settling on Raven Guard because the Alpha Legion forum told him they're the best. Then those dastardly FW mixed it all up again. I expect him in the Sons of Horus sub-forum shortly. To address the topic: Very very close all around, with maybe a few standouts. "Best" traitors are probably Sons of Horus. Loyalists, maybe Raven Guard? Nah, it's very damn close, and if they improve some of the pricy units like assault marines, you will really be able to run pretty much whatever you want. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/321659-since-the-new-red-book-what-new-legion-ratings/#findComment-4371477 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 If you want to play the "Best" legion to just win, it's not really worth it. Make an army you can be proud of or go for something different to the norm. Nothing is more opposite to my jumpy speedy BA than my footsloggy, heavy armour/ guns DG. Plus it's all clean and gold contrasted with grime. Have you read much fluff Grey? If I were you I'd go and read all of the legion articles in the FW books, out of everyone except BA / DA / WS / TS / VF that will give you a good view of who you like the most. And even then we know a lot of fluff about those 5 still as they have quite established basic fluff. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/321659-since-the-new-red-book-what-new-legion-ratings/#findComment-4371558 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robzilla Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 To echo what people have mentioned, read the fluff, and find what you love. We all like having a force we can have fun playing with, but I think the trick is to find your legion first, and then figure out the army list second.. I'm surprised people are considering SoH top teir now. No doubt they received a buff, but I didn't think it was that major... In my eyes it's night lords and world eaters all the way now. Though as others have mentioned,changes to the legion Corr units like bleachers and assault marines will massively change the shape of things. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/321659-since-the-new-red-book-what-new-legion-ratings/#findComment-4371593 Share on other sites More sharing options...
God-Potato of Mankind Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 No one Legion is inherently better. Whatever Legion you choose, another Legion will be able to do something better and they will also do something worse. It's entirely down to personal preference. This isn't 40k, there are no glaring balancing issues or cheese to spam. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/321659-since-the-new-red-book-what-new-legion-ratings/#findComment-4371610 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 I'm surprised people are considering SoH top teir now. No doubt they received a buff, but I didn't think it was that major... I think it's just the fact that Deathdealers and Justaerian are so damn efficient now. BS5 Combi-Plas on termiantors with perfect Horus Deep Strike is an expensive but devastating tactic. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/321659-since-the-new-red-book-what-new-legion-ratings/#findComment-4371617 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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