Since the new Red Book, what new Legion ratings ?

[Hergrmir]

 

-White Scars (we forgot about these blokes!)

 

I do like how the three arch-traitors (Horus the Warmaster, Lorgar the Vizier, Alpharius the Master of Whispers) are sitting squarely at the top, along with the sneakiest Loyalist Primarch.  Deception is truly the most crucial element in war!

 

 

That's okay, the whole crusade forgot about them for a while.

Also I see what you mean, but I don't think Alpharius really ranks up there in terms of the arch-ness of his betrayal.

[Terminus]

Maybe. There are some sources that blame him for the Istvaan V plan, and his infiltrators and demagogues turned more worlds intact to the Warmaster's side than probably the rest of the traitors combined.

 

As for Salamanders, they have the toughest terminators, their heavy flamer and volkite jetbikes are terrors, their best stick characters have ubiquitous eternal warrior, and they can all get cheap master crafting which is a great bonus. Vulkan himself is among the toughest Primarchs to remove, if not the toughest.

[God-Potato of Mankind]

It's not ridiculous. You lose SCORING.

 

Like I said in the tactica thread - who cares if they aren't scoring when they can wipe out the scoring unit they charge (ie, other tacticals) and can then put the hurt on things tacticals usually can't hurt. 

 

Great denial is as powerful as flexible scoring imo

 

AND you don't concede a VP for a lost inductii squad - which further amps up the epic denial.

[Ishagu]

The problem with World Eaters is that all of their bonuses are earned on the charge.

 

If you charge them instead, they aren't anywhere near as scary or capable of overpowering similar units...

[Charlo]

Don't know about you but the last thing I want to do is charge World Eaters!

[Ishagu]

Unless it's a squad of Red Butchers or I'm very much outnumbered I have no fear of charging them. Will likely lock them up for the majority of a game.

[Flint13]

The problem with World Eaters is that all of their bonuses are earned on the charge.

 

If you charge them instead, they aren't anywhere near as scary or capable of overpowering similar units...

 

Unless it's a squad of Red Butchers or I'm very much outnumbered I have no fear of charging them. Will likely lock them up for the majority of a game.

 

'Cept for the Str5 and two close combat weapons when talking Inductii.

 

Tac marine on marine combat is typically won by the charging side b/c it literally doubles the number of attacks on one side to push that 4+,4+, 3+ math in the direction you want it. 

 

If we're talking "overpowering similar units" you're probably going to come to a push on that first charge with an equal number of tac marines into inductii (possibly even a loss depending on their Crimson Path or Berzerker Assault positioning) b/c you ate overwatch and they slightly outmatch you in combat power, then slowly start to lose as they wound more consistently than you do and you've lost your own charging bonuses. 

 

But then again, this is all a hypothetical "in a vacuum" scenario. I can tell you from experience, World Eater players get really practiced at setting up good charges and denying their opponent the same. Much like an Ultramarine player gets well practiced at setting up overlapping unit fire to take best advantage of interlocking tactics.

 

Unless your WE opponent is asleep at the wheel, they aren't going to let you charge anything they don't want you to. 

[Terminus]

 

It's not ridiculous. You lose SCORING.

 

Like I said in the tactica thread - who cares if they aren't scoring when they can wipe out the scoring unit they charge (ie, other tacticals) and can then put the hurt on things tacticals usually can't hurt. 

 

Great denial is as powerful as flexible scoring imo

 

AND you don't concede a VP for a lost inductii squad - which further amps up the epic denial.

That's fair, it's just not enough to put World Eaters among the "best" in my eyes. I already mentioned several examples of other Legions who can similarly run an obnoxious big unit.  Denial is readily available, scoring is not.

[GreyCrow]

Very interesting discussions y'all ! It's good to see that so far, there isn't a Legion that is much stronger than the others, or one that is so weak it's bad.