L30n1d4s Posted April 20, 2016 Share Posted April 20, 2016 I think Dark Angels could take an allied Iron Hands "Fist of Medusa" detachment as follows: *Strike Force Command (HQ) -- Biker Captain with LC, PF, AA, Gorgon's Chain *Armoured Task Force (CORE) -- 3 x Whirlwinds, Biker Techmarine with LC *Honored Ancients (AUX) - Ironclad Dread with 2 x HF, Drop Pod The idea is as follows: -Join the Captain and Techmarine with a Biker I-C (with Mace of Redemption) and a Ravenwing Command Squad with an Apothecary... between their IH Chapter Tactics, Fist of Medusa rules, and the Narthecium, the Techmarine and the Captain all have 2+ saves and FNP(3+) and IWND, plus access to 3+ Jink saves because of Skilled Rider (not to mention Scout, Hit and Run, and Zealot conferred by the Biker I-C/RW Command Squad). This makes for a mobile and VERY survivable mini-Deathstar which can rush up-field, absorb tons of shooting, and then use the TLed Plasma Talons to shoot tough enemy units, followed by a charge with lots of Corvus Hammer attacks and either Servo-Arms or Lightning Claws, all backed up by re-rolls from Zealot. Also, they can Look out Sir! any AP2 wounds to the RW Command Squad, which can use its 3+ Jink with re-rolls to absorb that shooting. The three Whirlwinds give a cheap source of anti-horde/infantry shooting (plus they can cap objectives, as required) and the Ironclad Dread can add further destruction/distraction by dropping into the enemy backfield with is Drop Pod. All together, this IH detachment only runs 685 points (not including the Biker I-C or RW Command Squad), plus brings some real assets, IMHO, to a Dark Angel army. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/321661-allied-iron-hands-fists-of-medusa/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Lucifer Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 It's nice... But I'm old school. I still don't believe in most allies so I prefer to look to my Codex for solutions. ;) For me it's like suddenly you are playing chess and take a couple extra Bishops instead of pawns. Plus it would mean that 685 points of nice DA models would sit in the shelf. Cheers. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/321661-allied-iron-hands-fists-of-medusa/#findComment-4371447 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volt Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 I think Dark Angels could take an allied Iron Hands "Fist of Medusa" detachment as follows: *Strike Force Command (HQ) -- Biker Captain with LC, PF, AA, Gorgon's Chain *Armoured Task Force (CORE) -- 3 x Whirlwinds, Biker Techmarine with LC *Honored Ancients (AUX) - Ironclad Dread with 2 x HF, Drop Pod The idea is as follows: -Join the Captain and Techmarine with a Biker I-C (with Mace of Redemption) and a Ravenwing Command Squad with an Apothecary... between their IH Chapter Tactics, Fist of Medusa rules, and the Narthecium, the Techmarine and the Captain all have 2+ saves and FNP(3+) and IWND, plus access to 3+ Jink saves because of Skilled Rider (not to mention Scout, Hit and Run, and Zealot conferred by the Biker I-C/RW Command Squad). This makes for a mobile and VERY survivable mini-Deathstar which can rush up-field, absorb tons of shooting, and then use the TLed Plasma Talons to shoot tough enemy units, followed by a charge with lots of Corvus Hammer attacks and either Servo-Arms or Lightning Claws, all backed up by re-rolls from Zealot. Also, they can Look out Sir! any AP2 wounds to the RW Command Squad, which can use its 3+ Jink with re-rolls to absorb that shooting. The three Whirlwinds give a cheap source of anti-horde/infantry shooting (plus they can cap objectives, as required) and the Ironclad Dread can add further destruction/distraction by dropping into the enemy backfield with is Drop Pod. All together, this IH detachment only runs 685 points (not including the Biker I-C or RW Command Squad), plus brings some real assets, IMHO, to a Dark Angel army. Wouldn't it be better to bring Vindicators instead of Whirlwinds? Massed infantry isn't really a thing unless you're fighting something like Nids or Orks, and those can be mopped up with flamers. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/321661-allied-iron-hands-fists-of-medusa/#findComment-4371474 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solrac Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 3 Whirlwinds are very underrated. Why take them? They are a bargain and can dish out the wounds. 40k today is all about the amount of dice you throw at something. Odds will eventually be in your favour. In the last game I used my Whirlwinds they were firing at a Large squad of Immortals T1 and T2 averaged 14 hits per turn on the unit and rolling to wounds with Shred thanks to the squadron rule what happened? Down to 2 models by the end of my T2 shooting. That is huge against Necrons. Imagine if my target didn't have Reanimation. The best advantage they have over 3 Vindicators besides the points cost is Whirlwinds have 48" range and are barrage. Unless your enemy dedicates fast units (or deep strike) to go and take them out they should last you the majority of the game. I understand why C:SM players don't take them as they have the Thunderfire Cannon. 2 Thunderfire Cannons are better than 3 Whirlwinds hands down and there's only a 5 point difference. Bigger advantage for the Iron Hands detachment/formation above is that the Whirlwinds will have IWND rather than just the Techmarine having it with Thunderfire Cannons. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/321661-allied-iron-hands-fists-of-medusa/#findComment-4371488 Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrequentRespawn Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 Pretty sure you don't get shred on those Whirlwinds since they do not form a unit but are 3 seperated units. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/321661-allied-iron-hands-fists-of-medusa/#findComment-4371541 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Raeven Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 They get shred if you take them in a squadron. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/321661-allied-iron-hands-fists-of-medusa/#findComment-4371549 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harleqvin Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 but doesn't that formation require three separate units of of those vehicles? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/321661-allied-iron-hands-fists-of-medusa/#findComment-4371550 Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrequentRespawn Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 correct Harleqvin. 3 to 5 units of whirlwinds, vindicators or predators. So only having 3 whirlwinds on the table means they are your 3 units, but seperated units, therefore no shred. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/321661-allied-iron-hands-fists-of-medusa/#findComment-4371554 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Raeven Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 I don't get it. I was told you could take 3 whirlwinds in a squad to give them shred. What's this about 3 seperated units? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/321661-allied-iron-hands-fists-of-medusa/#findComment-4371556 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harleqvin Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 The Armored Taskforce requires 3-5 separate units of either Whirlwinds, Preds, Vindicators. So if you took three whirlwinds to meet the reqs for that Formation they wouldn't be considered one unit of three Whirlwinds. It would be three separate units consisting of 1 whirlwind each.You only get the shred rule if the unit of Whirlwinds consists of three Whirlwinds. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/321661-allied-iron-hands-fists-of-medusa/#findComment-4371560 Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrequentRespawn Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 Yes, you can get 3 Whirlwinds in a squad/unit. But this formation requires 3 to 5 UNITS of Whirlwinds. If you're going the minimum route, you have 3 single Whirlwinds, either of them forming their own unit. Therefore, they are no squad of 3, but 3 squads of 1. Whirlwinds only get shred if there are 3 in 1 squad. If you want to have shred within this formation, you need at least 5 whirlwinds. 1 unit of 3 whirlwinds, 1 unit of 1 whirlwind and another unit containing 1 whirlwind. The squad with 3 whirlwinds get shred, the other ones do not. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/321661-allied-iron-hands-fists-of-medusa/#findComment-4371563 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Raeven Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 So you need at least 2 other units of armor to get shred, if I understand correctly? EDIT: I saw your post too late FrequentSpawn. It confirms what I asked. Thanks for the explanation! EDIT: And what if the other 2 units are preds or vindis? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/321661-allied-iron-hands-fists-of-medusa/#findComment-4371568 Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrequentRespawn Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 you can play 1 unit of whirlwinds, 1 of vindicators and 1 of predators if youd like to, but they only get their squadron bonus from the codex if either unit contains 3 tanks of the same kind. and the bonus of course only counts for said unit. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/321661-allied-iron-hands-fists-of-medusa/#findComment-4371572 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnakeChisler Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 If your wanting to use Marines as an ally then Iron Hands have always been a good fit The SM codex has a load of stuff to offer and if your playing regularly just putting out the same force on the table all the time is predictable + it really helps when your in club matches and your fielding your A team (DA) you now know the SM strengths & weaknesses Clan Raukan relics are sweet as well I've tried the company Master before with a 2+, 3++ & 4+ FNP he works quite well as a way of negating the insane amount of Ignores cover going around at the moment and its something I had no need of till they confiscated our PFG. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/321661-allied-iron-hands-fists-of-medusa/#findComment-4371574 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liberame Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 Why wouldn't the gorgon chain master have a 2+ fnp instead of 3? 5 base, plus iron hands plus the detachment bonuses puts it down to 3, then gorgon chain drops it down to 2+. 1+ with warlord trait, and 0+ with warlord trait and endurance... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/321661-allied-iron-hands-fists-of-medusa/#findComment-4371584 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volt Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 Why wouldn't the gorgon chain master have a 2+ fnp instead of 3? 5 base, plus iron hands plus the detachment bonuses puts it down to 3, then gorgon chain drops it down to 2+. 1+ with warlord trait, and 0+ with warlord trait and endurance... Don't forget the ability to give him Cataphractii Terminator armor and a Bike. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/321661-allied-iron-hands-fists-of-medusa/#findComment-4371647 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Lucifer Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 Cataphracti armour and a bike? That's dreadsock material. ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/321661-allied-iron-hands-fists-of-medusa/#findComment-4371719 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volt Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 Cataphracti armour and a bike? That's dreadsock material. Just bless the incompetency of GW for giving us a greater tool to smite chaos with. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/321661-allied-iron-hands-fists-of-medusa/#findComment-4372112 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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