Pass the salt: Blood Angels decurion rumors/wishlisting

[Quixus]

I don't know about terminators getting better deep strike, AFAIK BA are not known for particularly good terminators. 5th Ed Heroic Intervention on everyone sounds good though.

[Arkangilos]

DS and charge definitely. The other rule was way to complicated.

 

Honestly, I think furious charge and +1 I is enough when it comes to the red thirst, but I would like to see a drawback to the curse. I mean the rules make it a blessing. That's why I am in favor of the third edition on a roll of one, your unit has to move. Yes, it makes devastators less appealing, but that is part of the fluff. They even specifically mention that about devastators...

 

Also, I don't think we should be able to swap assault marines for bikes.

[Charlo]

Charging from deep strike is too powerful an ability to just allow without a significant formation investment. Or at least one that's easy to shut down. The RG one even has weaknesses.

 

Remember that we aren't just vanilla Marines, our merits come from a lot of powerful special units too. None of which are actually bad. I don't want to become the new hotness just to get nerfed.

[Arkangilos]

Part of the reason I believe in the downside like from third edition.

 

Plus it could be a disordered charge.

 

At the very least we should get an assault formation that does allow charge from DS.

[Charlo]

Why would you want a disordered charge that loses the benefits of our other bonuses?

[Arkangilos]

Why would you want a disordered charge that loses the benefits of our other bonuses?

A charge is better than no charge, and you complained about the idea that the BA, an assault chapter known for that kind of thing, having the ability to charge from deep strike because it is too powerful. So tone back the power. Plus a warlord trait can allow you to make it an ordered charge.

[Charlo]

Potentially. I'd just like to see synergy as opposed to two opposite things.

 

I'm a big fan of the ignoring disordered charges as a universal rule. As it would let us get a lot of good coverage with our jump packs, and represents our crippling charge rocking the entire enemy battle line :D

[Charlo]

Double post, but that said something like the 30k buff for ours or the jump pack row that gives you 5+cover or can't be shot within 12" on arrival is pretty good.

[Frater Antodeniel]

On a more Logical and Balanced though, the Blood Angels rules/decurion should be designed around Jump/Skimmers/Flyers/Red Thirst. Also, since Blood Angels possess some of the most Brutal Chapters within the whole Astartes, a Flesh Tearers rules/decurion set around Rhino/Razorback/Ground assault/Black Rage should be welcome, in the way similar as i designed them in my Supplement version. (The Flesh Tearers Supplement (Rules/Decurion) can be found here => http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/321555-flesh-tearers-supplement-improved-version-2020-pages/ )

 

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As for the Blood Angels Rules, i imagined that it could be like that :

 

Descent of Angels: Units in your Detachment with the Jump, Flyer or Skimmer unit type can re-roll failed Reserve Rolls. In addition, Jump and Skimmer units from your Warlord’s Detachment arriving from Deep Strike Reserve scatter D6" less than they usually would (normally D6" rather than 2D6").

 

Leap of Faith : Units in your Detachment with the Jump unit  type can re-roll failed charge roll.

 

In such way, Dante Benefits would allow the squads he is in to Charge the turn it deepstrike using Jump Pack. (A buff that could also be given to the Sanguinary Guard). By doing Deepstrike Charges with this method, it would be fluffy and prevails this trick from being OP.

[SnorriSnorrison]

Descent of Angels as it is now(warlord ability) should be our first chapter tactic. No red thirst here, just a tactic, because that's what the Blood Angels deploy more often than not.

 

Second chapter tactic could be the some of the heroic intervention stuff written here. I agree, we need to be able to charge after deepstriking, but perhaps we should tone the charging down to jumpers only. Every played the game Space Marine and used the Jump Pack in multiplayer? THAT'S how you charge after striking out of the skies! For Drop Pods and teleporting units I'd stay away from it, for it makes sense fluff-wise and won't break the game too hard. I mean Terminators with hammers and shields charging after DS will wreck faces left, right and centre; we would hear the laments of chubby mid-thirties with loose t-shirts until there would be an FAQ to that.

 

Then, special rules.

Red Thirst/Black Rage. Both are a curse, not a blessing. Funnily enough, they've bestowed us more with blessings than with curses on the gaming table.

I'd like to see S and I +1 on the charge across the board/book. I also believe that we need a downside, or else we'd wish our units to succumb to the Thirst during battle. So, why not enter the randomness again? But on a random note, add a disadvantage rather than Furious Charge.

Perhaps random movement? (yes, it sounds horrible, but c'mon it's not like those Marines are getting agitated over the queue at the post office).

Or if you succumb to the Thirst, you gotta take a test on the Strength value. Should you fail, you need to declare a charge to the closest enemy unit, which will then get overwatch against you. Perhaps that's a bit harsh.

 

What I'm saying is, with all the wish-listing and love for the raddest Marine faction in 40k, we need to keep it civil with the advantages.

Balance should be the key.

 

Oh, and for units: Land speeder storm, upgraded Scouts, Dreadnoughts, and basically everything else. Add some extra costs for Lucifer pattern engines, which I believe shouldn't be left out(why would a techmarine do that? That's mandatory, son!). Less flexibility in that regard, but a bit closer to the background.

 

 

Since none of this will ever happen, I won't be surprised if we get a poor copy-paste decurion list-thing.

 

 

Snorri

[evildrcheese]

I want to become the new hotness.

 

I respect that some people are happy between 'red marines' with BA sprinkles, but I want BA to be good in their own right.

 

As for wish listing, I've always thought some kind of 'pop hatches' to turn rhinos opentopped at the expense of a hull point or armour value would be a fun mechanic. TBH alot of the Baal stuff is flavourful and a could be made playable with the appropriate modifications.

 

I'd prefer if out innate ability couldn't be neutralised, like +1 S & I in the first round of combat. Then perhaps add Furious Charge as a formation bonus which would give us access to S10 powerfists for a round!

 

Whatever we get I hope it's cool.

 

EDC

[L30n1d4s]

Hmmm, this is a very interesting thread.

 

I like many of the ideas put forth here, both from a gameplay perspective and from trying to keep things "fluff-balanced" and realistic compared to what the other armies have gotten in 7th edition. Here is my take on a "modernized" Blood Angel book/supplement:

 

----------------------------

 

-WL Traits -- Same as current book, except "Artisan of War" gives WL re-rolls for all close combat attacks, not Master-Crafted for a single weapon

 

-Relics -- Same as current Codex

 

-Universal Changes:

**Any BA units that can take Heavy Weapons (Tacs/Devs/Sternguard) can now take Frag Cannons (like from Deathwatch Overkill)

**BA Librarians/Mephiston get official access to Librarius/Geokinesis/Fulmination/Technomancy disciplines

**BA gets access to Hunter/Stalker squadrons (may upgrade to Fast Vehicles just like other BA tanks)

 

-Updated Profiles:

**Scouts/Scout Bikes get WS4/BS4

**Dreads get 4A base and can Squadron 1-3

**Librarian Dread Force Weapon counts as a Specialist Weapon now

**WW/Predators/Vindicators can Squadron 1-3 and get same bonuses as for three vehicles as C: SM and C: DA

**Baal Predators can Squadron 1-3 and get Scout if they have three vehicles

**Devastators may take "armorium cherub" upgrade

**Assault Squads may take Eviscerators (1 per 5 models)

**Attack Bikes reduced to 40 points/model

**Land Speeders reduced to 45 points/model and get Anti-Grav Upwash if they have three vehicles in a squadron

**Vanguard Vets change Heroic Intervention to ignoring Disordered Charges/re-rolling failed charges, plus they get -10 points to cost of special CCWs

**Techmarine gains +1BS/+1W/+1Ld and "free" Power Axe, is a normal HQ choice, and costs 65 points base

 

Blood Angel "Decurion":

**Command Benefits:

1) Master of Mobile Warfare -- As long as WL is alive, BA units may disembark from transports as long as they have not moved more than 12"

2) Red Thirst -- All units gain +1I in the first round of any combat

3) Speed of Sanguinus -- Units with Jump Packs add +3" to their Run and Charge distances

 

Not sure what all the CORE, HQ, and AUX formations should be, but I think the changes above would be an excellent starting point for a codex as a whole.

[Charlo]

 

-Universal Changes:

**Any BA units that can take Heavy Weapons (Tacs/Devs/Sternguard) can now take Grav Cannons/Amps Personally, not fussed. Rather have the heavy flamer.

**BA Librarians/Mephiston get official access to Librarius/Geokinesis/Fulmination/Technomancy disciplines - We already do.... We can use them, it's official :P

**BA gets access to Hunter/Stalker squadrons I'd like this

 

 

**Assault Squads may take Eviscerators (1 per 5 models) I want GW to stay away from our assaulkt squads purely because we are unique in our "2 special weapons in a 5 man" ability and aren't limited to just flamers. To make us like the normal box of assault marines would be a crime.

 

Blood Angel "Decurion":

**Command Benefits:

3) Speed of Sanguinus -- Units with Jump Packs add +3" to their Run and Charge distances +3 is a lot, even +1 or 2 here would be awesome.

 

 

Gave my thoughts in red :D

[Plague Angel]

I don't know about terminators getting better deep strike, AFAIK BA are not known for particularly good terminators. 5th Ed Heroic Intervention on everyone sounds good though.

 

Blood Angels Terminators are the iconic Terminators.

[Quixus]

Honestly, I think furious charge and +1 I is enough when it comes to the red thirst, but I would like to see a drawback to the curse. I mean the rules make it a blessing. That's why I am in favor of the third edition on a roll of one, your unit has to move. Yes, it makes devastators less appealing, but that is part of the fluff. They even specifically mention that about devastators...

Just add a Librarian in Cataphractii armour and everyone gets SnP

Also, I don't think we should be able to swap assault marines for bikes.

Why not? Blood Angels are a Codex Chapter.

I don't know about terminators getting better deep strike, AFAIK BA are not known for particularly good terminators. 5th Ed Heroic Intervention on everyone sounds good though.

Blood Angels Terminators are the iconic Terminators.

You mean because of Space Hulk? Other than that I don't remember anything special about them. Please remind me, if I missed something.

[Arkangilos]

Quixis, I meant for the assault formation. And the reason is because I feel like if the BA have a choice between biking it flying, they would pick the flying.

 

Devastators or tacticals would be fine, but not assault marines

[L30n1d4s]

@Charlo,

 

Good points you make about Assault Space Marines. Maybe don't give them Eviscerators, but I do think it would be neat if they had something like this:

 

"Up to two Space Marines may replace their BPs with Flamers (5 points); Meltaguns or Hand Flamers (10 points); Plasma gun, Inferno Pistol, Plasma Pistol, GRAV PISTOL (15 points). Additionally, two Space Marines may replace their CCW with a POWER WEAPON (15 points)."

 

Basically, this gives them the option to kit out for close combat, if required, which is something that should be available to Assault Marines.

[Frater Antodeniel]

BLOOD ANGELS AND SUCCESSORS WITHOUT EVISCERATOR ? HERESY !!!!!!!!

 

(Eviscerator is a favorite weapons of most Blood Angels Successors chapters....the fluff push it so far, that the Flesh Tearers Company/Chapter Champion have a an Eviscerator !)

 

For Blood Angels, i say Eviscerator for Assault Squad Sergeants, Vanguard Veterans, Company Champion, Captains and Sanguinary Priests !

[Helias_Tancred]

I think they will give us a new hero/independent character in our codex. It will be Sergeant Rafen from James Swallow's Blood Angels omnibuses ... or even better his brother too?

 

 

 

 

 

 

lol jk.

[NTaW]

Since we've already seen a tip of the hat to the Space Hulk Terminators in the box we got last Codex, it would be nice to see a shooting variant of the same kit with a frag cannon similar to the Deathwing box (though who can beat that value?!). After seeing the frag cannon on the Deathwatch Imperial Fist model it'd be pretty cool to see it come our way in a more hand-held variant but I doubt we're gunna get assault weapons in our Devastator squads....though if we did I'd be on that SO FAST

I'd kinda like to see Tycho removed from the 'dex. Karlaen's an easy add with the clam pack model, hopefully Cassor and Raphen make the cut but I'd really like to see someone new. It'd also be great if we could mitigate Mephiston and Corbulo's 6" movement with some fresh new models with jump capabilities. Maybe get crazy and make the target of Wings of Sanguinius able to assault the same turn.

[Dempsey]

Well... perfect for me would be modified formation which have meteoric impact to be able to roll on turn one to show up and be able to assault after drop with +1I, +1S this would make them as BA should be.

Other thing I wish list is (what would make BA really unique) deep strike on top of enemy - literally. If unit with jump packs arrives by deep strike it can be placed in contact with enemy counting as charging with all bonuses and hammer of wrath (no shooting though).

[Paikis]

Mephiston should just know Wings of Sanguinius.

[Xenith]

Yes, id like to maybe see platic jump packed versions of corbs and Tycho, kind of like how Njall and Calgar both get PA and TDA options.

[Plague Angel]

 

 

 

I don't know about terminators getting better deep strike, AFAIK BA are not known for particularly good terminators. 5th Ed Heroic Intervention on everyone sounds good though.

 

Blood Angels Terminators are the iconic Terminators.

 

You mean because of Space Hulk? Other than that I don't remember anything special about them. Please remind me, if I missed something.

 

 

Just so! Thanks to Space Hulk's legacy in GW's history and how influential it is even in the broader gaming world, the "generic Terminator" in most people's minds is in red armor.

 

Even when GW Digital was putting out those little short dataslates about equipment, the one about Terminator armor had a BA on the cover.

[SnorriSnorrison]

On the matter of frag cannons, wargear for assault squads and other stuff, I believe that is stuff for a new codex, not a decurion, no?

Same with the special rules I proposed earlier.

 

In any case, the librarius conclave sounds most likely to be incorporated for us - I just don't think we should be able to add Mephiston.

I'd rather see him get a similar rule like the Culexus assassins - he's so powerful and fearsome to other wielders of psychic powers that he gives them a -2 modifier on their LD value. I kind of imagined him to be like a shiny beacon to those handling the powers of the warp, a figure wrapped in golden light too bright to look directly at it. But as he approaches, they see through the light and behold the force unleashed, psychic rage flowing from him like when Sanguinius himself descended from the heavens as he saw his brothers being slaughtered on Signus Prime. "Divine Rage" sounds kind of fitting, no? Haha.

 

I'd also love to see assaulty scouts, like back in the day. Just with the Landspeeder Storm and those cerberus launchers and that funny grav-diversion field. So.much.potential.

 

I'd love to see Reclusiarchs come back. They lead the Death Company from the front into the most dire situations, so they deserve to have their former glory restored. Captains would then need an update to their special rules to make them more appealing. I was a fan of how the 3rd edition codex did it, Chaplains had to be accompanied by a (random) number members of the Death Company.

 

 

Snorri