Pass the salt: Blood Angels decurion rumors/wishlisting

[Arkaniss]

Hail and welcome to the B&C Mirthless!

As someone who's about to expand his DC contingent I quite like the Death Company Brotherhood idea

[Indefragable]

 

I got inspired by all the wishlisting.. so here with a decurion i would prefer for the Blood Angels.

Its a first go at this wishlisting, so please be gentle :/

 

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Sanguine Strike Force ( decurion-esq )

 

---Command Benefits---

The Red Thirst: In a turn in which a model from this Detachment charges into combat, the model adds 1 to its Initiative characteristic until the end of the Assault phase. A model that has made a disordered charge that turn receives no benefit from the The Red Thirst.

 

On the brink of Rampage: In a turn in which a model from this Detachment gets charged, they benefit from The Red Thirst and Furious Charge. The enemy loses their Hammer of Wrath if they have it, if not the enemy unit that charges the friendly unit gets “Counter”-Hammer of Wrath.

 

Storm of Angels: You can re-roll failed Reserve rolls for units in this Detachment with the Deep Strike special rule. In addition, units in this Detachment arriving from Deep Strike Reserve scatter D6″ less (normally D6″ rather than 2D6″).

 

 

Core:

 

- Avenging Host

1 Captain or Chaplain( or named character)

1 Sanguinary Priest(when taking Sanguinary Guard), or Librarian(when taking Command Squad)

1 Sanguinary Guard or Command Squad(CS can also buy SM Bikes)

1 Tactical squad

3x Assault Squad or 3xBike Squads (no mixing)

1 Devastator Squad 

Resctriction: All units not equipped with Jump Packs, Bikes or  beginning the game embarked upon a Stormraven Gunship, must begin the game embarked in Drop Pods, Razorbacks or Rhino’s, purchased at the normal points cost. However Rhino's and Razorback's get Overcharged Engines for free.

Rules: 

Fire from the Skies: You can begin rolling for reserve rolls for units in this formation on turn one. Units coming out of reserve can run and shoot, or run and charge. When coming out of Deep Strike they can charge with a minus 2 inch to charge distance.  

Leading by Example: Whilst this Formation’s Sanguinary Guard or Command Squad is alive and on the battlefield, all units in this Formation ignore the penalties for disordered charges (including the penalty described in The Red Thirst) and have the Stubborn special rule.

 

- Battle Demi-Company

 

- Stormlance Battle Demi-Company

 

 

Command:

Strike Force Command (Added Sanguinary Guard, instead of the Honour Guard)

 

Reclusiam Command Squad

 

Sanguinary Librarius Conclave

3-5 Librarians (Mephiston, en/of Librarian Dreadnoughts)

Sanguinary Channeling: 2 or more librarians alive = manifesting on 3+ (i.e. worse than Libby conclave)

In addition to regular powers, the Psykers know Supreme Quickening. Its like Quickening from the Sanguinary Discipline, but effects all models in the Psykers unit. (single d3 for the entire squad)

 

 

Aux: 

 

- Death Company Brotherhood

1 Chaplain,Lemartes or Astorath, 2-3 Death Company and 0-1 Death Company Dreadnought. 

Restriction: The chaplain must join a Death Company squad from this Formation.

Crusader, Fury of the Dead (+3 inch run and charge distance. Can charge after running from turn 2 and subsequent turns)

10th Company Task Force (like in the C:SM book)

 

- Skyhammer Annihilation Force (as in the Angels of Death book)

 

- Honored Ancients (1 Dreadnought, Furioso dreadnought, Death company dreadnought or Contemptor dreadnought)

 

- Archangel Orbital Intervention Force (1 Chaplain or Captain, 2 Terminators, Assault terminators or Catapractii terminators(in any combination), and 0-1 Furioso or Contemptor in a droppod) 

Restriction: All infantrty need to be in Terminator armor. 

Swift Deployment: All unit in this Formation must be held back in Deep Strike Reserve. When making Reserve Rolls, make a single roll for the entire Formation. On a successful Reserves Roll, all of the units in this Formation arrive from Deep Strike Reserve. Units in this Formation can Run and then shoot on the turn they arrive by Deep Strike.

 

- Archangels Sanguine Wing

2X Vanguard Squad

1x Sternguard Squad

Restrictions: Sternguard Squad must be sized to 10 models, and embarked on either a Droppod or Stormraven Gunship. Vanguard Squad needs to take jump packs, and must go in Deep Strike reserve.

1st Company Armoury: Vanguard get a free Power Weapon or a pair Lightning Claw per model, and Sternguard get a free combibolter or stormbolter per model.

Rapid Assault Tactics: Vanguard Squad can charge on the turn they Deep Strike, but with a -2 to charge distance. Sternguard Squads gain Shrouded if they stay within 3 inch of the hull of the droppod on the turn they come out of Deep Strike. The units in this Formation can roll for reserves on Turn 1 with a 3+, and on turn 2 the formation gains a reroll to reserves.

 

- Angel’s Fury Assault Force

1 Storm Raven

2 Stormhawk Interceptor 

Support Transport: The Stormraven can hold units that are not part of this Formation as long as they are battle brothers, and on the turn the Stormraven arrives, The embarked unit can Deep strike from the Stormraven 1d6 less scatter as opposed to 2d6 normally.

Airborne Deployment: When making Reserve Rolls, make a single roll for the entire Formation, which you can choose to re-roll. If successful, all units arrive from the Formation. You can make a Reserve Roll for this Formation from the start of Turn 1

 

 

As far as wishilsting goes, A for effort. Well done. Then again, who am I to interfere with someone else's dreams? 

 

You have some good ideas in there for sure. Now you have inspired me to actually put my own ideas down :) 

 

Again, not to knock on your wishes (see note above), but IMO, Sanguinary Guard should be its own sub-Formation. Sanguinary Guard and Death Company are really specialized units that fall outside the "normal" command structure of the Chapter. So, to my mind, Command Squads and Vanguard Veterans would most likely be in the same places they would be for other Chapters. 

[Quixus]

I totally agree on the point about Sanguinary Guard and Death Company.

 

I think we should just get the vanilla Battle Company and some new command and auxiliary choices, buuut there should be a significant change to the tactical squad:

under options:

The entire unit may replace their bolt gun or bolt pistol (make a choice for each model) with a chainsword and jump pack for 3 pts/model. If they do so the unit may not take a heavy weapon, it may however take two special weapons if the unit numbers ten models.

 

Bam, codex compliant and lots of jump pack marines. Giving them still access to the heavy flamer seems a bit too good maybe give that to the genuine assault squads and/or vanguard veterans, maybe remove HoW from the model with the HF.

[Charlo]

Eh, in an ideal world maybe but just keep the Assault and Tactical squads seperate.

 

We should, like most of the other Marine Decurions, get the standard Demi and then another that is more focused on our units.

 

So 3-5 Assault squads, land speeders, a Furioso, Cap/Chap etc. All have to deep strike and can assault if they do so.

 

Simple, powerful.

[Frater Antodeniel]

Personally, i wait that, within the next Codex, GW clearly mark the difference between the Blood Angels and the Flesh Tearers, speaking of gameplay and fluff :

 

Blood Angels => Nobility/Angelic inspiration fluff, Jump Pack favor Assault tactics, Sanguinary Guard, rules that focus on the "Good side".

 

Flesh Tearers => Berserkers/Vampiric/Fallen Angels inspiration fluff, Ground Assault Tactics, rules that focus on the "Dark side".

 

About the rules difference, one exemple that already exist is the Warlord Trait Charts.

 

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I think it would be a smart move if GW could make two shoot with one bullet and separate those within the Angels sons that still follow the Glorious teaching and try to control their Red Thirst/Black Rage, and those others chapters that care little to none for Glory and give some free reins to their Blood Lust and easily fall to the Black Rage.

 

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Plus, since the Spaces Wolves "sane" Wulfen, i really desire that the Process of "falling into the rage" would be clearer. (Do Death Company marines act like "beast" ? do they retains most of their battle knowledge ?....etc)

 

From the readings, we know that those that will fall to the Black Rage present typical symptoms and it would be very interresting to have more information. (One Blood Angels may focus on his weapons between battle, cut-off progressively from others, loose control of himself while fighting, start to have visions of the past or the future....etc)

[Dont-Be-Haten]

All the assault marines from the 5th edition codex being troops is relatively new. The 3rd edition codex kept the Boys in Red traditional and the ASM were not a troop option. Jumpers are great and all, but that's not the best part of BA.

 

Edit: I totally posted in the wrong thread :(

 

Edit x2 I would prefer to have red thirst instead of furious charge. I would rather gain FC etc from a formation/decurion Like formation rather than be cut and pasted from the vanilla cousins

[Tyriks]

I'd like it if the Red Thirst still boosted your initiative when charging with unwieldy weapons.  So, instead of attacking at I1, you'd attack at I2.  This would be hugely useful in very rare situations (charging hammernators or PF termies) but not change most combat, since pretty much everything that's not unwieldy will still swing first.  Slightly higher initiative is one of the defining traits of our army, so it would thematically fit.  It would also make positioning well even more important if those units are around to make sure you get the charge.

[Indefragable]

I'd like it if the Red Thirst still boosted your initiative when charging with unwieldy weapons.  So, instead of attacking at I1, you'd attack at I2.  This would be hugely useful in very rare situations (charging hammernators or PF termies) but not change most combat, since pretty much everything that's not unwieldy will still swing first.  Slightly higher initiative is one of the defining traits of our army, so it would thematically fit.  It would also make positioning well even more important if those units are around to make sure you get the charge.

 

Can you imagine the swimming pools we would need to catch all the tears of opponents? Fast track to gripe city!

 

I like the idea, but there would probably have to be a realistic version that is a bit more balanced. Only in Challenges? Roll a D6 and on a 5+ they can attack at I2?

[Tyriks]

 

I'd like it if the Red Thirst still boosted your initiative when charging with unwieldy weapons.  So, instead of attacking at I1, you'd attack at I2.  This would be hugely useful in very rare situations (charging hammernators or PF termies) but not change most combat, since pretty much everything that's not unwieldy will still swing first.  Slightly higher initiative is one of the defining traits of our army, so it would thematically fit.  It would also make positioning well even more important if those units are around to make sure you get the charge.

 

Can you imagine the swimming pools we would need to catch all the tears of opponents? Fast track to gripe city!

 

I like the idea, but there would probably have to be a realistic version that is a bit more balanced. Only in Challenges? Roll a D6 and on a 5+ they can attack at I2?

 

I don't think attacking at I2 with an axe on charges would make enough of a difference to call that unbalanced.  Especially if it was a formation bonus.  It would really only change a handful of rolls in a game.  Having it work in challenges is actually way worse because you could get a lot more use out of that since challenges can go on indefinitely.  My suggestion would only work the first turn of combat if you were the one charging - that would be very unlikely to change the course of the game.

[Blindhamster]

Axes should have been -1 init from the start, not unwieldy like a fist.

[Charlo]

Axes should have been -1 init from the start, not unwieldy like a fist.

This. Then we'd strike at I4 :D

[evildrcheese]

Some cool ideas in here.

 

What I really want is abilities that can't be easily negated by other assault forces. I think FW's 30k BA rules work much better in capturing the skill and ferocity of BA in CC than anything I've seen from GW prime (I started BA in 5th, for reference).

 

Charging BA makes them equivalents to any other marine, I want rules that'll make an opponent reconsider charging us, rather than it being a no-brainer. That's why the FW rules work so well. Even if it was just +1S and +1I in the first round of combat would be s huge boost for us.

 

EDC

[Frater Antodeniel]

IMPORTANT THING that is sure to be included in the next Codex or Errata, is the Frag-Cannon Stat change, according to the Deathwatch one.

 

Currently, Furioso Frag-Cannon is => Assault 2 // Template // S6 AP- // Rending

 

With the new Deathwatch rules, it will have two fire mod => Assault 2 // Template // S6 AP- // Rending OR Assault 2 // 24" // S7 AP3

 

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It will be a little change, but a change nonetheless.

[Indefragable]

Some cool ideas in here.

 

What I really want is abilities that can't be easily negated by other assault forces. I think FW's 30k BA rules work much better in capturing the skill and ferocity of BA in CC than anything I've seen from GW prime (I started BA in 5th, for reference).

 

Charging BA makes them equivalents to any other marine, I want rules that'll make an opponent reconsider charging us, rather than it being a no-brainer. That's why the FW rules work so well. Even if it was just +1S and +1I in the first round of combat would be s huge boost for us.

 

EDC

 

I concur. The Encarmine Fury rule (all BA units need 1 less To Wound in melee, so anything they could wound on 4+ now wounds on 3+, etc...) is my mostest favoritest rule for BA ever. I like that because, as you mentioned, it makes ALL BA units better in melee not matter what. No ifs, ands, or buts. Other forces can still have their special snowflakes, but BA should be better across the board in combat no matter what. 

[Indefragable]

 

 

I'd like it if the Red Thirst still boosted your initiative when charging with unwieldy weapons.  So, instead of attacking at I1, you'd attack at I2.  This would be hugely useful in very rare situations (charging hammernators or PF termies) but not change most combat, since pretty much everything that's not unwieldy will still swing first.  Slightly higher initiative is one of the defining traits of our army, so it would thematically fit.  It would also make positioning well even more important if those units are around to make sure you get the charge.

 

Can you imagine the swimming pools we would need to catch all the tears of opponents? Fast track to gripe city!

 

I like the idea, but there would probably have to be a realistic version that is a bit more balanced. Only in Challenges? Roll a D6 and on a 5+ they can attack at I2?

 

I don't think attacking at I2 with an axe on charges would make enough of a difference to call that unbalanced.  Especially if it was a formation bonus.  It would really only change a handful of rolls in a game.  Having it work in challenges is actually way worse because you could get a lot more use out of that since challenges can go on indefinitely.  My suggestion would only work the first turn of combat if you were the one charging - that would be very unlikely to change the course of the game.

 

That's true. I just try to flip things around: see how it would feel to be on the receiving end. I think Axes shouldn't get +1S if they get to attack before I1 to balance things out. But the Two-Handed special rule should either give +1S in the BRB or Shred automatically. 

 

To go with what others have said, I think the next iteration of the BRB should say that Axes as a weapon type strike at half the model's Initiative, rounded up. So GEQ would swing at I2 as would MEQ. Eldar would go at I3 and thus Red Thirst BA would go at I3 as well.  

[Blindhamster]

I love that

[Rafen IX]

Personally after the silly wulfen stealing all our rules and striking at initiative with strength 8 axes, we should at least get something excellent.

Mostly I believe we our niche should be assault from deep strike, and some flexible and powerful formations to do so.

And the frag cannon can replace any heavy Flamers and be taken by devastators. Think about it ;!

[Dont-Be-Haten]

Personally after the silly wulfen stealing all our rules and striking at initiative with strength 8 axes, we should at least get something excellent.

Mostly I believe we our niche should be assault from deep strike, and some flexible and powerful formations to do so.

And the frag cannon can replace any heavy Flamers and be taken by devastators. Think about it ;!

That would be :cuss mate. In retrospect looking at D-scythes I could be super okay with it.

 

I would like Baal Preds to go back to fast attack or be able to take them in squadrons. Assaulting from deep strike would be okay but if not I would be okay with run and shooting or gain counter attack meteoric impact instead.

[Silverson]

not sure if this may mean we will see a start collecting box for blood angels soon or not but I just noticed the blood angels battleforce is no longer available. 

[Quixus]

That's true. I just try to flip things around: see how it would feel to be on the receiving end. I think Axes shouldn't get +1S if they get to attack before I1 to balance things out. But the Two-Handed special rule should either give +1S in the BRB or Shred automatically. 

 

To go with what others have said, I think the next iteration of the BRB should say that Axes as a weapon type strike at half the model's Initiative, rounded up. So GEQ would swing at I2 as would MEQ. Eldar would go at I3 and thus Red Thirst BA would go at I3 as well.  

The whole differentiation of power weapons is a mess IMHO. I cannot see how the design decisions can be justified with balance or verisimilitude. One large mass on a stick (power axe) is unwieldy and only grants +1 S whereas another grants +2 S and is not unwieldy (power maul). It gets even weirder when you include chain axes. They should be very similar in ease of use to power axes but aren't unwieldy.

Power axes are only functionally identical against marines with furious charge. So even without unwieldy, but a penalty to initiative instead, I think they would be balanced against swords and fists.

 

A piercing blade on a long stick (power lance) does not grant a bonus to initiative although it should reach the enemy earlier than a shorter weapon.

 

Unfortunately these design decision are rooted very deeply and so are unlikely to be changed by a codex.

[Frater Antodeniel]

Speaking of "Unwieldy" and "Wulfen", i thing that it would make sense that Death Company may ignore the "Unwieldy" effect.

 

This way, it would be balanced in gameplay point of view, as well as logical Fluff Wise. (As if a Mad-Berserker Death Company marine couldn't have the strenght to lift a Thunder Hammer^^.)

 

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Also, the Sanguinary Guards "Encarmine Axe" should have the "Unwieldy" effect removed. (But, the Axes wouldn't be free, but at +5 or 10 points for exemple.)

 

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It is two LOGICAL and Fluff Wise choices, that i think can close the debates on this point.

[Indefragable]

That's true. I just try to flip things around: see how it would feel to be on the receiving end. I think Axes shouldn't get +1S if they get to attack before I1 to balance things out. But the Two-Handed special rule should either give +1S in the BRB or Shred automatically.

To go with what others have said, I think the next iteration of the BRB should say that Axes as a weapon type strike at half the model's Initiative, rounded up. So GEQ would swing at I2 as would MEQ. Eldar would go at I3 and thus Red Thirst BA would go at I3 as well.

The whole differentiation of power weapons is a mess IMHO. I cannot see how the design decisions can be justified with balance or verisimilitude. One large mass on a stick (power axe) is unwieldy and only grants +1 S whereas another grants +2 S and is not unwieldy (power maul). It gets even weirder when you include chain axes. They should be very similar in ease of use to power axes but aren't unwieldy.

Power axes are only functionally identical against marines with furious charge. So even without unwieldy, but a penalty to initiative instead, I think they would be balanced against swords and fists.

A piercing blade on a long stick (power lance) does not grant a bonus to initiative although it should reach the enemy earlier than a shorter weapon.

Unfortunately these design decision are rooted very deeply and so are unlikely to be changed by a codex.

I agree wholeheartedly. Yea that's a whole other Pandora's Box. While we're on the matter... Two-Handed weapons should have something to make them worth taking instead of being a punishment...as it stands there is NO benefit to a 2H weapon whatsoever. Some specific weapons/characters get a special 2H mode that is usually Unwieldy but AP2, but across the board 2H could used something.

And Chainswords? The most iconic weapon in the entire 40k setting? Naddas. They are equal to a Grot's elbow in terms of gameplay. But then Chainfists are Power Fists that are even better against vehicles. I would like to see a BRB update/7.5th Edition have Chainswords as S(User) AP- Melee, Rending. Or something like that. Something to give a nod to their iconic status.

[Indefragable]

Speaking of "Unwieldy" and "Wulfen", i thing that it would make sense that Death Company may ignore the "Unwieldy" effect.

 

This way, it would be balanced in gameplay point of view, as well as logical Fluff Wise. (As if a Mad-Berserker Death Company marine couldn't have the strenght to lift a Thunder Hammer^^.)

 

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Also, the Sanguinary Guards "Encarmine Axe" should have the "Unwieldy" effect removed. (But, the Axes wouldn't be free, but at +5 or 10 points for exemple.)

 

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It is two LOGICAL and Fluff Wise choices, that i think can close the debates on this point.

 

I dare hope that Wulfen are an indication of what we can expect with an updated Death Company at some point. Obviously with more BA flavoring. DC that can Move, Run, and Charge (with Fleet?) in the same Turn and re-roll failed Wounds to Overwatch or something. 

 

IMO, Encarmine Swords should be Master-Crafted Relic Blades (S+2 AP3 Melee) at the least. If my idea of ALL Two-Handed weapons getting Shred or something, Sanguinary Gaurd would sky rocket in value (On the charge: S7 AP3 Melee, Master-Crafted, Shred, @ I5) 

[Quixus]

IMO, Encarmine Swords should be Master-Crafted Relic Blades (S+2 AP3 Melee) at the least. If my idea of ALL Two-Handed weapons getting Shred or something, Sanguinary Gaurd would sky rocket in value (On the charge: S7 AP3 Melee, Master-Crafted, Shred, @ I5) 

I totally agree. At least the swords look like relic blades: ornate two-handed swords. So they should have the stats of those. I think they wouldn't even need master crafted or shred to be great.

 

On the subject of relic blades, why do space marines only keep old swords? Wouldn't relic weapons of all types make more sense? After all there are also three types of power weapons. So: relic sword (S+2, AP3, two-handed) relic maul (S+4, AP4, two-handed, concussive) relic axe (S+3, AP2, two-handed, unwieldy), relic spear (S+3/S+2, AP3/AP4, two-handed)

[Slothysaur]

Come on guys, were all thinking it, deep striking Land Raiders! You're welcome guys ;)

 

But in all seriousness, I love the sang guard upgrade ideas. Also the simple stuff to bring our equivalent stuff up to par with regular SM. Maybe options to give a few named characters (Mephiston) jumpacks?