Pass the salt: Blood Angels decurion rumors/wishlisting

[evildrcheese]

The idea of making DC ignore unwieldy is interesting, maybe make that a bonus of relentless, so y'know there's a point of DC having relentless.

 

Personally I like power weapons as they are now, sure it doesn't make sense, but I think the game mechanic of them doing different things works and forces you to make a choice when building a character.

 

I think chainswords should have Shred rather than rending.

 

EDC

[Frater Antodeniel]

Other Wishes :

 

- Mephiston Lvl 4 Psyker. (After all, he is one of the most powerfull Librarian of the Galaxy...)

 

- Dreadnought Librarian Mastery level 3 option. (Because Dreadnought Librarian^^)

 

- RECLUSIARCH profile upgrade option for Chaplain.

[Charlo]

Other Wishes :

 

- Mephiston Lvl 4 Psyker. (After all, he is one of the most powerfull Librarian of the Galaxy...)

 

Yeah but he's not Eldrad or Tigurius, 3 is fine for him.

 

- Dreadnought Librarian Mastery level 3 option. (Because Dreadnought Librarian^^)

 

Normal libby's can't be so why should dreads?

 

- RECLUSIARCH profile upgrade option for Chaplain.

 

BUT THIS I DO WANT BACK!!!!

[Tyriks]

 

That's true. I just try to flip things around: see how it would feel to be on the receiving end. I think Axes shouldn't get +1S if they get to attack before I1 to balance things out. But the Two-Handed special rule should either give +1S in the BRB or Shred automatically. 

 

To go with what others have said, I think the next iteration of the BRB should say that Axes as a weapon type strike at half the model's Initiative, rounded up. So GEQ would swing at I2 as would MEQ. Eldar would go at I3 and thus Red Thirst BA would go at I3 as well.

 

The whole differentiation of power weapons is a mess IMHO. I cannot see how the design decisions can be justified with balance or verisimilitude. One large mass on a stick (power axe) is unwieldy and only grants +1 S whereas another grants +2 S and is not unwieldy (power maul). It gets even weirder when you include chain axes. They should be very similar in ease of use to power axes but aren't unwieldy.

Power axes are only functionally identical against marines with furious charge. So even without unwieldy, but a penalty to initiative instead, I think they would be balanced against swords and fists.

 

A piercing blade on a long stick (power lance) does not grant a bonus to initiative although it should reach the enemy earlier than a shorter weapon.

 

Unfortunately these design decision are rooted very deeply and so are unlikely to be changed by a codex.

I think the problem is they want them all to be different but not super different, and all the same cost. So none of the design has to do with actual weapon usage so much as in game balance.

[Blindhamster]

 

 

- Mephiston Lvl 4 Psyker. (After all, he is one of the most powerfull Librarian of the Galaxy...)

 

Yeah but he's not Eldrad or Tigurius, 3 is fine for him.

 

 

 

To be fair, Mephiston IS called out as being one of the most powerful psykers in the imperium, and as of shield of baal, he's gone mind to mind with the hive mind too - which is Tigarius' greatest feat.

[Dont-Be-Haten]

 

 

 

- Mephiston Lvl 4 Psyker. (After all, he is one of the most powerfull Librarian of the Galaxy...)

 

Yeah but he's not Eldrad or Tigurius, 3 is fine for him.

 

 

 

To be fair, Mephiston IS called out as being one of the most powerful psykers in the imperium, and as of shield of baal, he's gone mind to mind with the hive mind too - which is Tigarius' greatest feat.

 

He's also overcome the Black Rage twice, and faced off against a Lord of Change right?

 

To Me, I've always viewed two handed weapons to be one of two things. Either like a Relic Blade which is +2 S AP3 or +2 S AP3/2 @I1 Because Before ever playing with my beloved boys in red, I played Fantasy, and Fantasy 2 handed weapons were +2 Strength and always struck last/or at I with special rules.

[Indefragable]

 

 

 

 

- Mephiston Lvl 4 Psyker. (After all, he is one of the most powerfull Librarian of the Galaxy...)

 

Yeah but he's not Eldrad or Tigurius, 3 is fine for him.

 

 

 

To be fair, Mephiston IS called out as being one of the most powerful psykers in the imperium, and as of shield of baal, he's gone mind to mind with the hive mind too - which is Tigarius' greatest feat.

 

He's also overcome the Black Rage twice, and faced off against a Lord of Change right?

 

To Me, I've always viewed two handed weapons to be one of two things. Either like a Relic Blade which is +2 S AP3 or +2 S AP3/2 @I1 Because Before ever playing with my beloved boys in red, I played Fantasy, and Fantasy 2 handed weapons were +2 Strength and always struck last/or at I with special rules.

 

 

I dunno about ML4...he's a super power psyker but he's not purely a psyker. He's truly a unique dude in the entire setting: a super powerful psyker who has overcome the Black Rage twice and thus is stronger/tougher/faster than most other mortals. I think he should be T6, Smash, and Eternal Warrior to reflect that. That way nothing short of a D weapon can insta-gib him. It also would make sense if his crunch is hard to fit him in with other units...after all, don't even other BA look at him rather wearily? I know others would love to see him with a Jump Pack or something but I think it makes sense for him to have Fleet and be a footslogger: a bit of an outcast even within his own Chapter. He can do on foot what others need equipment for. I would love to see him able to roll for 3 powers as well as use Sanguine Sword.

[Helias_Tancred]

Personally after the silly wulfen stealing all our rules and striking at initiative with strength 8 axes, we should at least get something excellent.

Mostly I believe we our niche should be assault from deep strike, and some flexible and powerful formations to do so.

And the frag cannon can replace any heavy Flamers and be taken by devastators. Think about it ;!

 

IMO the Wulfen are stupid. Don't like the fluff behind it either.

[AceofCase]

IMO, Encarmine Swords should be Master-Crafted Relic Blades (S+2 AP3 Melee) at the least. If my idea of ALL Two-Handed weapons getting Shred or something, Sanguinary Gaurd would sky rocket in value (On the charge: S7 AP3 Melee, Master-Crafted, Shred, @ I5)

I totally agree. At least the swords look like relic blades: ornate two-handed swords. So they should have the stats of those. I think they wouldn't even need master crafted or shred to be great.

On the subject of relic blades, why do space marines only keep old swords? Wouldn't relic weapons of all types make more sense? After all there are also three types of power weapons. So: relic sword (S+2, AP3, two-handed) relic maul (S+4, AP4, two-handed, concussive) relic axe (S+3, AP2, two-handed, unwieldy), relic spear (S+3/S+2, AP3/AP4, two-handed)

Well technically relic blades are described as both swords and axes, but use the same profile Weird, I know.

[Xenith]

 

- Mephiston Lvl 4 Psyker. (After all, he is one of the most powerfull Librarian of the Galaxy...)

 

Yes, he is the most powerful, in the same way that Nicodemus was the Greatest Wizard in all of the Old World...

 

Powerful as in he could choke the life from Tigurius without breaking a sweat. Tigurius is half-eldar, though, so might just out-psyker him.

[Quixus]

Tigurius is half-eldar, though, so might just out-psyker him.

What's this heresy?

[RedemptionNL]

Tigurius being half-Eldar is some really old fluff that has long been ret-conned. Doesn't make it any less fun to tease the uptight smurfs with, of course.

[Arkangilos]

I kind of wish he they went back to 3rd Edition with Mephiston when it was the complete red thirst that he overcame. Back then you had Mephiston overcome the Red Thirst, and Lemartes the Black Rage.

[Blindhamster]

No... He overcame the black rage. He had visions of fighting horus etc.

[Arkangilos]

Not in the old days...

 

In third edition he was overcome by the red thirst, and got trapped. Then Sanguinius came to him in a vision and said he had to overcome it for the whole chapter. He fought for three days and three nights and rose again as Mephiston. He even had a rule that said that while he overcame the thirst, sometimes he still had to drink Blood, and so could not do consolidated charges. If you want, I will send you proof when I get home.

 

Back then the Death Company was made up of both Red Thirst and Black Rage people.

 

It was only in the recent editions that it changed to the Black Rage, which disappointed me because it took away from Lemartes, who in the day had almost completely overcome the Black Rage. Like he could control it and not be in stasis.

 

Maybe this will hold you over until then:

 

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Lord_of_Death

[Frater Antodeniel]

So on the Change ideas, i would add :

 

For Captain Tycho and Fallen Tycho :

 

=> Hatred (Orks) to become Hatred (All)

 

With this small change, i think that it would clear the way many people may actually play Tycho, as well as making Tycho a very special Captain, with a good buff on his own. (A change, that may also up the Fallen Tycho use in game.)

 

Fluff-wise, this change may be saw as an effect of Tycho falling into the Black Rage. A trait that he would still retain even when fallen.

[Spagunk]

Codex BA 3rd edition pg 21:

 

"And thus did Brother Calistarius come to Hades Hive to do war against the enemies of the Imperium that had fallen upon the planet Armageddon and there did he become a victim of the Black Rage. And he went before his Chaplain and was inducted into the Death Company, as is our way, and on the morning did take part in the grand assault upon the fortress held by the enemies of the Imperium."

 

BUT, it goes on:

 

"But as he fought against the hosts, such was the fury of the battle that the very walls of the fortress did crumble and collapse and Brother Calistarius was buried deep beneath the rubble. For seven days and seven nights did he lie there trapped, caught between death and the madness of the Red Thirst."

 

So the thing is that in the 3rd edition codex, the red thirst and black rage were very much hand in hand. What mephy did have was called "Blood Fever" which was a check to see if he breaks an opponent in combat, he must stay there instead of advancing.

[Damon Nightman]

Weren't tyranids involved at one point when mephiston is "born" instead of orks? I vaguely remember when I tried to play in 5th and I can't remember if it was the actual codex or the white dwarf/ print out codex, but mephiston was trapped under some rubble and ends up ripping apart a carnifex with his bare hands instead of a group of ork boys. I remember reading it and thinking this guy is no joke, but after getting the new codex and reading the entry saying he tore apart some ork boys bare handed, I was a bit disappointed.... Or I could just be completely wrong....

 

Or was it like him holding off a bunch a nids alone and the building collapsed on him and he got up days later as mephiston? I can't be just making all this up.... I hope

[Arkangilos]

Codex BA 3rd edition pg 21:

 

"And thus did Brother Calistarius come to Hades Hive to do war against the enemies of the Imperium that had fallen upon the planet Armageddon and there did he become a victim of the Black Rage. And he went before his Chaplain and was inducted into the Death Company, as is our way, and on the morning did take part in the grand assault upon the fortress held by the enemies of the Imperium."

 

BUT, it goes on:

 

"But as he fought against the hosts, such was the fury of the battle that the very walls of the fortress did crumble and collapse and Brother Calistarius was buried deep beneath the rubble. For seven days and seven nights did he lie there trapped, caught between death and the madness of the Red Thirst."

 

So the thing is that in the 3rd edition codex, the red thirst and black rage were very much hand in hand. What mephy did have was called "Blood Fever" which was a check to see if he breaks an opponent in combat, he must stay there instead of advancing.

... So it seems we are both right... Lol

[Spagunk]

Weren't tyranids involved at one point when mephiston is "born" instead of orks? I vaguely remember when I tried to play in 5th and I can't remember if it was the actual codex or the white dwarf/ print out codex, but mephiston was trapped under some rubble and ends up ripping apart a carnifex with his bare hands instead of a group of ork boys. I remember reading it and thinking this guy is no joke, but after getting the new codex and reading the entry saying he tore apart some ork boys bare handed, I was a bit disappointed.... Or I could just be completely wrong....

 

Or was it like him holding off a bunch a nids alone and the building collapsed on him and he got up days later as mephiston? I can't be just making all this up.... I hope

 

 

That was 5th ed codex under "Battle of Hollonan" on page 17.

[Damon Nightman]

 

 

Weren't tyranids involved at one point when mephiston is "born" instead of orks? I vaguely remember when I tried to play in 5th and I can't remember if it was the actual codex or the white dwarf/ print out codex, but mephiston was trapped under some rubble and ends up ripping apart a carnifex with his bare hands instead of a group of ork boys. I remember reading it and thinking this guy is no joke, but after getting the new codex and reading the entry saying he tore apart some ork boys bare handed, I was a bit disappointed.... Or I could just be completely wrong....

 

Or was it like him holding off a bunch a nids alone and the building collapsed on him and he got up days later as mephiston? I can't be just making all this up.... I hope

 

That was 5th ed codex under "Battle of Hollonan" on page 17.

 

Oh okay thank you! So was that just a story about him fighting nids and not his actual "origin" story?

[Spagunk]

 

Codex BA 3rd edition pg 21:

 

"And thus did Brother Calistarius come to Hades Hive to do war against the enemies of the Imperium that had fallen upon the planet Armageddon and there did he become a victim of the Black Rage. And he went before his Chaplain and was inducted into the Death Company, as is our way, and on the morning did take part in the grand assault upon the fortress held by the enemies of the Imperium."

 

BUT, it goes on:

 

"But as he fought against the hosts, such was the fury of the battle that the very walls of the fortress did crumble and collapse and Brother Calistarius was buried deep beneath the rubble. For seven days and seven nights did he lie there trapped, caught between death and the madness of the Red Thirst."

 

So the thing is that in the 3rd edition codex, the red thirst and black rage were very much hand in hand. What mephy did have was called "Blood Fever" which was a check to see if he breaks an opponent in combat, he must stay there instead of advancing.

... So it seems we are both right... Lol

 

Yeah, in 3rd ed, Red Thirst and Black Rage were both in the same "Black Rage" rules category. The Black Rage got you into the DC while all BA suffered from Red Thirst. By virtue of him already being a blood angel and losing his will due to the Black Rage, he would have suffered Red Thirst too.

[Arkangilos]

Yeah, but even then one could still completely succumb to the red thirst which changed them, that part has been there for a while, too (though in the IA and Blood Quest).

 

I miss the drawback of the red thirst.

[Frater Antodeniel]

The more i think about it, the more it seems that the Red Thirst and Black Rage should have a better background, one that clear the effect from one to the other.

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Dr.Fraterantodeniel, Mentalist :

 

Considering the effect caused by the drug-need situation of those afflicted by the biological curse of the "Red Thirst", and the inherent Post-Traumatic experiences caused by a constant Warfare Lifestyle, it would be absolutely coherent that the "Red Thirst" is the trigger that pull the Black Rage affliction to emerge.

 

To prove how the first impact the second, i will use two exemples, The Flesh Tearers and the Blood Drinkers :

 

- The Flesh Tearers live a constant Warfare Lifestyle, with no other thoughs in mind. Trough their Gene-seed and millenia, the Biological curse of the "Red Thirst" have worsened to the point that the situation of Need is near constant. Given the fact that such a need cannot always fulfilled, the Flesh Tearers tend to fall more easily to the Black Rage. (To note, that their comportment is more brutal, violent, due to the always present need. Yet, it appeared that the Primitive culture and the very Pure Cretacian Humans had slowed the degeneration of the Gene-seed over the millenia.)

 

- The Blood Drinkers seems to have escaped from doom in the hand of the Black Rage by "mastering" the Red Thirst. Such mastery is achieve by quenching the Thirst, by the means of formalised ceremonies that involves the Consumption of great quantities of blood. Thanks to this method, the Blood Drinkers knows very fiew of their brothers falling to the Black Rage, as well as halted the constant degeneration of their Gene-Seeds. (Yet, the secret of this cure have been revealed by an Agent of Chaos, and to while having escaped from doom in the hand of the Black Rage, the Blood Drinkers may have doomed themselves in other unseen way.)

 

----------------------------------------------------------------

 

With this two exemples, and by ignoring the Blood Quest stuff/fluff about the Red Thirst, we can assume that the Red Thirst and The Post-Traumatic Shocks are the cause the trigger the Atavic Memory of every Blood Angels gene-seed, leading the Battle-brother to fall to the effect of the Black Rage. (To note that the final stage of the process is controlled by the Chaplain that uses the Mori Patri to free the afflicted, allowing him to fully falling to the Black Rage.)