Making EC more knightly

[Frater Cornelius]

I have noticed that the way most of the EC models look resemble a (sort of) Greek style, especially the Tartarus and MK4 armour. While okay, I prefer the classic medieval knight look. An example how I would do it with IF: MK3, Bretonian Knight helmet, tabard, sword and board.

That will not work very well with EC, seeing as Mk3 does not really fit them (and the fact that I only have Mk4 and the Palatines also wear Mk4).

 

Here's the deal. Despite the fact that I am limited to Mk4, what could one do to bring EC closer to a medieval knight look and move a step away from the Greek style?

 

Cheers ;)

[Slips]

Grey Knight bits?

[Frater Cornelius]

Genius! I was already thinking of replacing the curved swords and spears with the more robust GK versions. But now that you say it, GK heads and trinkets will go a long way.

 

Though there is still the Phoenix Guard. Even though they are some of the most beautiful models I have seen, they are still the worst offenders. Their iconography is too reminiscent of antique theatre. They are also very sleek. I suppose this is an 'issue' of all EC models, that they do not appear heavy enough.

[Charlo]

CHARLO  IS A GENIUS AND ALREADY SUGGESTED I replace the curved swords and spears with the more robust GK versions. But now that you say it, GK heads and trinkets will go a long way.

 

Though there is still the Phoenix Guard. Even though they are some of the most beautiful models I have seen, they are still the worst offenders. Their iconography is too reminiscent of antique theatre. They are also very sleek. I suppose this is an 'issue' of all EC models, that they do not appear heavy enough.

 

FTFY ;)

 

Maybe try and get a mix or legion tartaros and indomitus? That could yield some bulkier results :)

[Slips]

I mean, Grey Knights Terminators have Halberd Options and are significantly less rounded than Tartaros :P

 

You could always use Dark Angels 40k Termies too with GKT Bits.

[Elzender]

I gotta say that the helmets of the phoenix terminators just scream templar and knight to me, actually I want to get at least one for my temple-nators.

Talking about templars, maybe try the brethren helmets? They are certainly knight-looking, but still have their elegant/fancy touch with their wreath. Other than that, one more vote to the GK bits (which I'm also using for my templars, I'm just gathering all kind of bits for them ).

Just as I was writing this, I've seen something that may be of interest in the cataphractii topknots thread, Brother Heinrich posted a picture with some BA terminators made with a mix of cataphractii/tartaros that you might like, knightly and absolutely fantastic:

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/321713-cataphractii-topknots/

[Frater Cornelius]

Templar Brethren bits is a good call as well. You see, while I like the knightly look of Mk3, it lacks grace and chivalric grandeur. Taking EC and making them more chivalric while keeping the grace seems like a far better fit than trying to make an IF to get in touch with his feeling :D

 

Edit: Too bad that EC lack units to make use of shields. That would've made it perfect.

[Slips]

I mean, everyone can use Breachers...

[Frater Cornelius]

I mean, everyone can use Breachers...

An EC Breacher? You'll have an easier time finding a cheeseburger at a super model convention

[Slips]

Well, they tried to be perfect at every type of warfare so why would finding EC Breachers be hard?

[Frater Cornelius]

Well, they tried to be perfect at every type of warfare so why would finding EC Breachers be hard?

 

Fair enough. Though when I mentioned shields, I was looking at combat shields like Templar Brethren. Smaller and more agile. Too bad Palatines can not get any :/

[Slips]

Command Squads yo.

[Elzender]

Templar Brethren bits is a good call as well. You see, while I like the knightly look of Mk3, it lacks grace and chivalric grandeur. Taking EC and making them more chivalric while keeping the grace seems like a far better fit than trying to make an IF to get in touch with his feeling

Edit: Too bad that EC lack units to make use of shields. That would've made it perfect.

I mainly referred to the helmets because the torsos are mkIII and with a lot of IF iconography, so it might be too heavy for them.

May I suggest trying mkII? It is "knightlier" than mkIV, lighter than mkIII, and much less prevalent than both, giving it a sense of exclusivity and class (or as said back in the third millenium, "hipster"). Moreover, if you're going loyalist, you could justify them not having mkIV, as it might have been reserved for the ones known to side with Horus, and they would prefer it to mkIII, much bulkier and heavy and therefore not fitting to their way of war.

[binary]

 

 

Well, they tried to be perfect at every type of warfare so why would finding EC Breachers be hard?

Fair enough. Though when I mentioned shields, I was looking at combat shields like Templar Brethren. Smaller and more agile. Too bad Palatines can not get any :/

No EC breachers? I point you to kizzdougs and my own attempts....

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m200/mark_kilburn/Mobile%20Uploads/2016-04/DE2AD074-C572-408F-B9B1-90D03168CF3D_zpsh0d1odp0.jpg

 

[Frater Cornelius]

Yeah, it is either that or IF. I hesitate with IF, even though it was my choice way back then, because it seems like the simple path. They may sports a solid look that is really knightly, but they lack the grace and the chivalric romanticism and grandeur that I so adore.

That is why I am trying to make EC work with that look. If I find something suitable to work with then great. If not, then I still have the boys in yellow to fall back to.

 

Still, I refuse to take the easy and convenient path just yet. Don't want to become a victim of my own conscience :D

[Elzender]

Another idea is to look to other legions' upgrade sets, most of them have some bits that could be used in other legions or be easily adapted. The ultramarines praetorian helmets and the blood angels ones are great and most of them have little to no legion symbols. Regarding the torsos, the invictarii torsos have aquilas which are fitting for EC, and the UM icons don't seem too difficult to remove. The SoH torso set also looks pretty good, specially the lower line ones, and also the DA ones, although those have more iconography than the rest; there are plenty of options to make them a bit different (pun not intended).

 

Moreover, the easy one is not the way of the Third, legionnary. Challenges and struggles are the only path to perfection!

[MakoBoy88]

Good point ;) Gotta do it the right way not the easy way ;)

[Robzilla]

To echo what some have said, grey knight bits are your friend. Likewise, black Templars, especially with their tabard torso bits (and some dark angels too) would lend themselves to knightly themes.

 

You could look at doing some homages to the battle style of knights too? A squire to your commander, carrying a helm or something. Personal (company) heraldry on banners/tabards. Trusty steeds? (Jetbikes)

 

The stormcast eternal upgrade sprues come with suitably ornate shields that could look nice for breathers too.

[Frater Cornelius]

@ MakoBoy88 - Word. That is the whole purpose of this execise ;)

 

@ Robzilla - I was looking at Demi-Gryphs or something similar to do the Jetbikes, actually. They fit on your regular 60mm base, which is the one thing that counts. If I use scenic bases, I could elevate then to match the height. The only thing they will not have is the length of a Jetbike. I could give them lances as their regular CCW.

 

I have also pondered about the shield issue. This is very reminiscent of the late high and late medieval periods where full plate made shields redundant. This sort of excuses it, though it doesn't mean I like it (because shields are awesome :D).

[binary]

Posted this as the reply to a pm, but thought other people might find my thought processes with the EC interesteing too...

 

I think the problem with the EC (loyalists at least) is that the legion doesn't have one big theme that translates to the models like the other legions do. After all we're not Vikings, Mongols, cyborgs, Renaissance artists, Romans, WW1 siege specialists, WW1 Chem warfare nuts, serial killers, pyromaniacs, ninjas or tuetonic knights. We kind of don't know who we are, just that we want to be perfect with a few Greek/Spartan influences. This leaves a lot open to us and I think it's what's stumping you.

Instead of looking at the theme for the legion I looked at what would be the motivation and thoughts of my characters. How would they look at perfection? What paths and choices would they make?how would the universe influence them?

 

With this dilemma the IF give you the look and the defensive feel, but ultimately are the easy way to go as they spoon feed you it. This is why I went with EC, the hard work, the effort and the world building I could do.

How would the loyalists feel and react to what happened? Had they survived Istvaan or arrived after? What units did I want? All these helped with my view of the 156th.

But I still needed an overall theme to them and like you looked at what would motivate them. My mind turned towards the Knights of old, but more towards the myths of King Arthur and the concept of chivalry. Combined with the ideals of Japanese Bushido and the vision of perfection and honour, of duty and brotherhood this gave me the epiphany and path I should follow.

Once that clicked I knew the EC were my legion. Not the hubris ridden parody the legion would become, but the honourable, chivalrous brotherhood that first began the steps of the great crusade.

 

So the question is.....take the easy path of the sons of Dorn and forever regret not fulfilling your vision of the legion, or join us on the harder and more dangerous path of redemption, the path that lets you take the legion and mould it into your vision of what it could/should have been.

I think you know the answer, because you asked the question.

 

Binary

[Frater Cornelius]

Well, that went above and beyond the call of duty, seeing as the question of this particular thread was how to bring EC closer to my preferred visual style which just so happened to work well with IF :P

 

Nevertheless, very interesting ;)

[Kizzdougs]

'Medieval' seems like a bit of a step down for the Emperor's Children, I always associated them with more artistically and culturally refined periods. Having said that, I'm sure you'll make it work beautifully.

 

When you described knightly astartes the first thing I thought of was the Dark Angels helmet pack. I recon they'ed work nicely with MkIV, especially compared to the much bulkier MkIII helmets :)

 

[Frater Cornelius]

I think that Mk4 and 5 will look pretty damn good with those. Adding some more bulk in select areas could make it look heavy and knightly and yet agile.

 

One thing that I need to remember that even the Mk4 is still a massive layer of ceramite and isn't as light as it appears to be, so a shield would serve almost no purpose outside of looking cool. There is a reason why two-handed weapons replaced the sword & board in the late medieval period.

 

As for EC and the medieval period, I disagree. I associate the finer and graceful ways of the EC with courtly behaviour and chivalric romanitcism. There was a whole lot more than armoured dudes bashing their heads in :P

[Rangaman]

One thing to remember is that even though the Legions had their stereotypes, they still drew recruits from multiple planets and cultures. The IIIrd are noted to continue inducting initiates from Europa way back on Terra, exclusively from the still remaining noble houses. I wouldn't go so far as to make them out to be what we know as Teutonic/Crusading Knights but you could definitely take the best parts of multiple eras and cultures that you love and make your own Knightly theme. This is a setting that is 29k years after the Dark Ages so realistically you could assume that no one of the Great Crusade era would have any knowledge of that time.

 

The simplest way for you to make your IIIrd look more Medieval would be using heraldry and more drapery, tabards and loincloth etc

 

With that said, why not focus on the lower echelons of the Legion? Tarvitz is renown for his virtue and humbleness, that could be an interesting avenue to pursue with individual ambition being cast aside in favour of a perfectly united whole...

[Frater Cornelius]

One thing to remember is that even though the Legions had their stereotypes, they still drew recruits from multiple planets and cultures. The IIIrd are noted to continue inducting initiates from Europa way back on Terra, exclusively from the still remaining noble houses. I wouldn't go so far as to make them out to be what we know as Teutonic/Crusading Knights but you could definitely take the best parts of multiple eras and cultures that you love and make your own Knightly theme. This is a setting that is 29k years after the Dark Ages so realistically you could assume that no one of the Great Crusade era would have any knowledge of that time.

 

The simplest way for you to make your IIIrd look more Medieval would be using heraldry and more drapery, tabards and loincloth etc

 

With that said, why not focus on the lower echelons of the Legion? Tarvitz is renown for his virtue and humbleness, that could be an interesting avenue to pursue with individual ambition being cast aside in favour of a perfectly united whole...

 

This ain't a question of justification though. It is a question of how I would do it ;)