How would you Play this Army...

[LukeTheButcher]

Hello All, I need some help. I am at a local Tourni in June and this si what I have to play with. But never really played 30k (and only a sporadic 40k player at best).

 

How should i play this army (appreciate any tweaks, but limited on both time/money to get new modes)...

 

ROW: ? - Running as Space Wolves (So Stubbon across the board)

 

Praetor (Archotech Pistol, Digital Lasers, Parago Blade, Iron Halo)

3 Man Command Squad (1x Fist, 2 other Power Weaposn)

Land Raider Proteus (with twin linked Heavy Bolter)

 

Master of Signals (Artificier Armour, Refractor Field)

 

10 Man Tactical Squad + vexillia + Rhino (Sg with Artificer & Powerfist)

10 Man Tactical Squad + vexillia + Rhina (Sg with Artificer)

5 Man Recon Squad + Nuncio-Vox (Sgt with Artificer)

 

1x Quad Mortar Wepons Battery

 

5 Man Seeker Squad + Combi-Plasma + Rhino (Sgt with Artificer & Powerfist)

 

1x Leviathan (2x Volkite, Armoured Ceramite, Phosphex Launcher, Grav Bombard, Storm Cannon)

2x Contemptor Dreadnaugh (1x Kheres Assault Cannon each)

 

 

 

Thoughts/Guidance or advice on what to do tactics wise much appreciated.

 

 

 

[Slips]

1. Drop the singular mortar. Unless you can get a second for a 2 Gun Battery, he's not going to be doing much.
2. Drop Pod for the Leviathan, drop the Storm Cannon for a Claw.
3. Drop Archeotech Pistol from Praetor. Its cool when you have the points free to nab one, but you'll likely only ever shoot it once.
4. Upgrade Proteus to a Phobos so that its an assault vehicle. No point in stuffing an Assault Unit into a Transport they cant charge out of.
5. Drop the Recon Squad. Too Expensive for what they do. Get a Tactical Support Squad in a Rhino if you can. Flamers are nice to pile on wounds but Plasma Guns would be preferential.
6. What is the Master of Signal Doing/Joining?
7. Graviton Guns and Replace Power Fist with a Chainfist on the Contemptors. Downgrade to Cortus to save points if you want. If you somehow have the spare points, get them Drop Pods.
8. Melta Bombs on the Tac Sarges before any Weapon Upgrades but always after Artificer Armor. To save points, take: Artificer, Melta Bomb, Power Axe. Same cost as Artificer + Power Fist.
9. To save more points, Downgrade Seeker Sarge's fist to a Power Axe.
10. You can possibly swap the Command Squad for a Tac Vet Squad with Furious Charge as Vet Tactic with a few Power Weapons thrown in and a fist on the Sarge. Gets you a  Stubborn & Furious Charge unit and it gives you 5 Bodies from the get go. 3+ Armour, Sure, but you weren't charging Terminators with your command squad anyways since you didnt give them combat shields at a minimum for an Invulnerable save in the event of Ap2 Combat.

This is what I'd do to optimize what you've currently got.

[LukeTheButcher]

Thanks for the support Slipstream.

 

I was hoping to use the Recon for indirect fire, but with only 1 Quad & the Master of Signals I think you are right.

 

I like the idea of the assault Veterans, hadn't really thought of them in that way. Will take that on board with the  Phobos.

 

Look at the list, I'm not really an assault or a sit back and bombard army. Any idea's on tactics? I think I am going to end up trying to out survive my opponents for a points win? Not sure If the army has resilience either though. 

 

Any ROW worth running? And if not, is the Praetor worth it or would a different Consul work better (Librarian?)

 

 

Cheers,

 

Luke

[Slips]

Well, if you were so inclined, you could run Pride of the Legion and Use Sniper Veterans as your shooty component to give it more bite.

 

A note however, is that HQs like the Librarian, Primus Medicae, Master of Signal, Praevian and Herald are all support officers so would need a second non-suppot officer HQ for them to be taken.

 

If points are truly tight, Take a Delegatus Consul instead. You lose the Paragon Blade but save a bunch of points and still have acces to RoWs.

 

By the sounds of it youre playing a midfield army with assault elements which makes you giving your dreads all pods a much stronger proposition, especially the leviathan.

 

If you do take a Delegatus youd also have access to his unique rite of war which unlocks vets as troops without the downside of Pride (which is meant for bigger games).

 

Your army could then transition into:

-1 vet squad in a Phobos with Delegatus

-2 Sniper Vet Squads with Heavy Bolters/Missile Launcher/Plasma Guns as you see fit though youd want these squads at 10 men for 2 Special Weapons each in a rhino.

-Leviathan with either Claw and Bombard or Drill and Lance in a pod (id go with drill and lance for anti-armor).

-2 Contemptor-Cortus w/ Chainfist & Grav + Kheres in Pods

-(if they still fit) Combi-Seekers in Rhino.

[Slips]

You could end up with this at 2.5k

 

+++ Delegatus and Vets (2500pts) +++

 

++ Legiones Astartes: Crusade Army List (Age of Darkness) (2500pts) ++

 

+ HQ (105pts) +

 

Legion Centurion (105pts) [Artificer Armour, Melta Bombs, Power Weapon, Refractor Field]

····Consul

········Delegatus

············Rite of Command

················Master of the Legion [Chosen Duty]

 

+ Troops (915pts) +

 

Legion Veteran Tactical Squad (315pts) [Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier, 9x Legion Veteran Space Marines, Legion Vexilla, 2x Missile Launcher and Suspensor Web, Sniper]

····Legion Veteran Sergeant [Artificer Armour, Power Weapon]

 

Legion Veteran Tactical Squad (315pts) [Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier, 9x Legion Veteran Space Marines, Legion Vexilla, 2x Missile Launcher and Suspensor Web, Sniper]

····Legion Veteran Sergeant [Artificer Armour, Power Weapon]

 

Legion Veteran Tactical Squad (285pts) [Furious Charge, 8x Legion Veteran Space Marines, Legion Vexilla, Melta Bombs, 4x Power Weapon]

····Legion Veteran Sergeant [Artificer Armour, Power Fist]

 

+ Elites (480pts) +

 

Contemptor-Cortus Class Dreadnought Talon (240pts)

····Cortus Dreadnought [Chainfist with inbuilt twin-linked Bolter, Graviton Gun, Kheres Pattern Assault Cannon, Legion Dreadnought Drop Pod]

 

Contemptor-Cortus Class Dreadnought Talon (240pts)

····Cortus Dreadnought [Chainfist with inbuilt twin-linked Bolter, Graviton Gun, Kheres Pattern Assault Cannon, Legion Dreadnought Drop Pod]

 

+ Fast Attack (350pts) +

 

Legion Seeker Squad (350pts) [7x Combi-weapon, Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier, 7x Legion Seeker Space Marines]

····Legion Strike Leader [Artificer Armour, Melta Bombs, Power Weapon]

 

+ Heavy Support (650pts) +

 

Legion Land Raider Battle Squadron (275pts)

····Land Raider Phobos [Armoured Ceramite, Dozer Blade]

 

Leviathan Siege Dreadnought Talon (375pts)

····Leviathan Siege Dreadnought [Cyclonic Melta Lance, Legion Dreadnought Drop Pod, Leviathan Siege Drill, Phosphex Discharger]

 

+ Legion +

 

Legion Astartes [Loyalist, VI: Vlka Fenryka]

 

Created with BattleScribe

[LukeTheButcher]

Thanks for the list,

 

I don't have all the drop pods so I will have to look into that, but its' good to know I can still get use of the ROW.

 

I will give it a try!

 

Luke

[Slips]

If you dont have the Pods, in No big deal then you'd just have to be VERY Careful with your Dreads and make the most out of the Cortus' having Fleet and Move Through Cover and the Leviathan having MTC too.

 

It does free up 195 points though (cost of 3 Pods) which you could conceivably use to field a Third Cortus Contemptor.

[LukeTheButcher]

Well, tried my old list out against my friend Nurgel Daemons to some succes. The Master of Signals/Recon spotters/Thudd Gunn did very little, so I have dropped them out. Likewise, Command squad and Praetor did little. I am begining to think that unless you have a Primarch, Space Marine Hero's can never actually deliver a performance like they are protrayed too.

 

So, in talking it through with my friend, here is the revised version.

 

 

Legion Astartes: Crusade Army List (2250pts)

Legion : Space Wolves (Stubborn on everyone)

 

Centurion (AA, Refractor, Power Axe)

 

Troops

10 Man Legion Tactical Squad + Vexillia + Rhino (Srg AA)

10 Man Legion Tactical Squad + Vexillia + Rhino (Srg AA)

 

Elites

Contemptor Dreadnaught Talon (x2) + Kheres Assault Cannon & Graviton Gun each

9 Man Veteran Tactical Squad + 3x Power Weapons + Vexillia (Srg with AA & Power Fist) - Furious Charge

 

Heavy

Leviathan Siege Dreadnaught + Storm Cannon + Grav Bombard + 2x Vulkite + Phosphex

Land Raider Phobos (For Veterans & Centurion)

 

5 man Seeker Squad  + 4x Combi Plasma + Rhino (Srg with AA)

Lightening Strike Fighter + 2x 2 Kraken Heavy Penetrators  + Battle Servitor Control

 

 

I'm not an in your face player, and I think an advance to midfield is more my style. I liked the tremendous Firepower the Leviathan kicks out, although vs a non-shooty army I never really saw how resilient it can be. The Lightening I will proxy, but I think its a good one shot Anti tank/Supper Heavy.

 

The veterans will be my CC counterpunch, not to go toe to toe with anything specialised in CC, but more to dislodge scoring troops.

 

I am really going off Space Marine Hero's. They never live up to the hype, so I am going for as cheap a HQ tax as possible. Here's hoping Russ lives up to his reputation.

 

Few more play tests till June on the cards though.

 

Thanks,

 

Luke

[Gorgoff]

I have to disagree on the last statement. First it depends on which kind of role you have in mind for your leader and what kind of HQ you choose for that specific task.

You took a Master of the Signal hands down one of the best and easiest to use Consul. Why doesn't he live up the hype? If you take some Nuncio Vox into your army you should hit with his template and that's his main asset. Everything he does after that, buffing a shooting unit usually, is just a bonus.

Same thing with lots of other Consul variants. I think the crucial point is that you have wrong expactations of your HQ.

Can a Praetor fight and defeat a unit of Fire Drakes kitted out with Storm Shields and Thunderhammer single handed? Probably not.

And he shouldn't. Because Fire Drakes are heros and figures of legend semselves so why should he be able to crush them?

But can he slaughter whole units of regular marines on his own?

Abso:cussingloutely.

This weekend we played a little campagn and my Praetor killed in three games three or four characters in challanges, wiped out a Legion Tactical Squad and took out a Consul in a duell as well. In my experience a normal performance of him.

In my Last game against Mechanicum he instant killed a Thanatar Siege Engine and then a Magos Dominus in a challange.

But would I send him in to kill Sigismund or a Wraithknight?

Of course not.

In the end it is all about knowing the limits of your models. They are not unbeatable superheros but neither are the Space Marine commanders in the novels. The good and rewardings to read pieces are full of defeats and comebacks. That is how interesting moments appear. And when your glorious Praetor dies unheroically against an Ork Slaver see it that way:

At that day the Ork was a hero. ;)

[LukeTheButcher]

Hello Gorgoff, thanks for the response. I feel your experiences differ from mine.

 

In my previous game, the nunci-vox Recon squad vanished to a psychic shriek and when the MoS finally did use his orbital bombardment, I got the minimum templates and the target (a Great Unclean One) shrugged off the blast. (It was the target that needed killing at the time, rather than the most ideal target I agree). A round later, the same MoS drops dead to more psychic shenanigans. 

 

My Praetor, kitted out for H-H with his Command squad, where wiped out by a Daemon Prince. Never even swung thanks to the Daemon Princes higher Initiative.

 

This is not a random example, I have never had my HQ's perform. It may be my astronomically improbable poor luck with dice rolls, but that is my experience. I appreciate that I have not played enough 30K to really test a Praetors limits, but so far I am underwhelmed. If the guy would just make his points back that would be something.

 

Hence, the view that HQ's are not delivering; they are not worth the points investment. I would be interested in other peoples thoughts.

 

I am glad other people are having better luck, but in your analogy, I am tiered of the Ork Slaver being the hero, and not my hero being the hero.

 

I am keeping my fingers crossed a Primarch is a different beast entirely.

 

Luke

[Gorgoff]

Hm, I guess the biggest problem is that you play against 40k armies. It's nothing wrong about it but you have to keep in mind that most of them are way more powerful. At least in small games.

If I may add I think in your example there where exactly the situation given I explained earlier. A Daemon Prince should always beat a Praetor because that is what he is breed to do. Round about 250-300 points himself he is one of the scariest opponents in a challange fluffwise AND ruleswise. Your opponent would've cried himself if your lill' dude had killed it. Like I said you overestimated his capabilities. A Praetor can beat regular marines, sergeants and the like. Huge beast like a Hive Tyrant or other stuff like that need some help from other models.

And like you self wrote a Greater Daemon of Nurgle is not a got model to shoot at with a Orbital Strike. :)

[LukeTheButcher]

So, if I am reading this correctly, I shouldn't set my Praetor & Command squad against Daemon Princes (Elite/Heavy), kitted out Fire Drakes (Elite), but he can go against standard Tactical Marines & Sergeants.

 

And equally my MoS shouldn't be aiming for big critters either, but should be aiming for troops too. 

 

I though that 99% of things in 30k where good against standard Tacs (even other Tactical marines have a 50:50 shot). If the Praetor is doing this in melee, there is probably more cost effective ways of doing it. So bar from opening up RoW, I am not seeing the point of the Praetor.

 

As for the other HQ's, there is a few odd boosts, but I am underwhelmed.

 

Guess I need to play more to see the benefits of the individual HQ's and find one that fits into my gameplay. But I think only the Primarch's are going to live up to my estimations of a 'space-marine' hero (ie, those legendary hero's who can go toe to toe with monsters & daemons alike).   

 

How do other people use their HQ's? A side bonus to make the army work better, a focal point of the army, or a patch for a defficiency in the army?

[Robzilla]

I think it's generally best to use them as you would in a Rock Paper Scissors scenario.

You don't really want to send them in to a fight they can't win. Likewise you don't want to waste them on mutual annihilation. Whereas if you can annihilate someone's veteran tactical squad, or tax squad in one turn, that's his points earned back with pretty much no risk.

 

In fairness, the fire drakes are arguably the most fearsome terminators in 30k, so I'd feel pretty hard done by if anybody's generic hq could take them out risk free. I'd say most primarchs would think twice about charging fire drakes...

 

I'd say the role of most combat hqchoices in 30k is to either bully much weaker squads for quick wins, or to give your squad an edge in an otherwise even match up.

Two legion terminator squads? The one with the attached praetor should have the edge there, and it is better than accepting that both squads would otherwise be considered a write off.

[GreyCrow]

@Luke : Really, don't overestimate the melee damage of your Praetor. Like Gorgoff said, it's a single guy, and that single guy will not completely maul the opponent's army on his own. Some builds in 40k allow a very resilent/very beefy character (Bike, Shield Eternal, Power Fist on a Chapter Master) but it's harder to pull in 30k.

 

Look at the Independent Characters as unit attachments that you can swap throughout the game to provide a boost in one specific domain at the appropriate time. The Praetor gives a melee combat boost at a specific time to a specific unit. You can move him to different units depending on what's necessary. Robzilla made a very apt description of the general role of a Praetor.

 

It's still a single T4 guy. A Power Fist will K.O. him should it get through the invulnerable.

 

Reading through your list, and like you said, most of the stuff you field are good against critters. We can consider the Contemptors line units as well, because they bring more resilience than dakka. What I think you need is a tad more fire support. With a list like yours, you're playing for attrition, and as soon as the contemptors are gone, you lose quite a bit of threat I find :)

[Robzilla]

Since you have stated that you are a midfield player and not too aggressive, have you considered using veteran tacticals with a pride of the legion list instead of the standard tacs?

 

Sniper on the veterans with bolters, with either heavy bolters or missile launchers would help to chip away at some of the more significant threats you seem to be facing, would add a lot more punch to your rank and file.

[Balthamal]

Without meaning any offence, you're basing your Preator/Consuls combat prowess on Primarchs already, especially when facing 40k armies where the prevalence of Eternal Warrior and stacking USR shenanigans can make for unbelievably hard to kill units. In a strictly 30k environment against Legion armies (without And They Shall Know No Fear), Solar Auxilia and Mechanicum, Praetors are very good. But it's also about picking the correct battles.

 

As mentioned above you'd never send him in against Fire Drakes because Hammers instakill him and with 3++ you aren't going to be killing 4/5 beforehand to weed out the number of attacks. Against anything without an invuln? He'll chew through them and AP2 at initiative with instant death tacked on for good measure is invaluable against some of the big hitters you're likely to run across.   

[LukeTheButcher]

First off, thank you for the responses. I appreciate the time you have taken to try and help my understanding.

 

GreyCrow.

I hear what you are saying and I think that is my problem. The Praetor is very expensive for effectively, a melee only upgrade to a squad, an upgrade that will only give it an edge in a like for like combat (as the Praetor alone will not tip the balance against more elite units).

I think I want my Chapter Master esq character (A mighty Hero of Legend...) to do more than be an expensive Sergeant, and that is my issue to work through and might be half my dis-satisfaction with HQ's at present.

 

At first I did think of going more artillery, but its what to drop for it :-)

 

 

Robzilla

I was thinking of going Pride of the Legion and Vets, but they just seem expensive for what is effectively a Marine durability. Heavy Bolters and Sniper seem useful, I will have to play-test to see what I can drop out to fit it in. 

 

 

Bathamal

I think I just have a vision that these Legendary leaders of these Legendary warriors should actually achieve something, which to date for me they have not. And I fully accept, I may be using them in the wrong way vs the wrong things. 

 

The Praetor will help tip melee in a like for like fight, but is a risk vs elites (Terminators). Unless fully kitted out he is not a match for a rival Praetor, but spending all the points runs the risk of him never making the points back....

 

So what are the best targets for a Praetor? (Core troops/Support troops?)

[Gorgoff]

A well kitted out Praetor can almost kill everything whith only a few exceptions.

First he is not very good against tough opponents with strenth 8+ themselves or against strong enemys with higher ini and lots of attacks.

There're not very much units or models which fall in one of these two categories.

Let's see...

He can beat every human character every Centurion, every Sergeant, Ork Nobs, most Tyranid creatures and most Eldar characters with little effort. Depending on which Legion you play he can also beat enemy Praetors. EC, NL and WE all get distinctive bonuses in melee which will help him dealing with powerful characters. They can even go toe to toe with an Orc Warboss and kill that thing single handed. A vanilla Praetor could do that as well, but he has to have a little bit of luck to do that. Seven attacks max at the charge is no guaranty for three wounds against T5 with WS6. But we don't know what kind of special rule SW will get yet so maybe their Praetor will be a superior character killer as well. It would fit their fluff quit nicely so we'll see.

Until then you'll have to go by the basic Praetor which is a killer in his own right.

I mean I play IW and we don't get any bonuses for close combat as well and he does his job very well. First of all he can roll twice on the warlord chart of your choise which is nice and second he gives you a ROW which is awesome.

Third he kills stuff. In my army he joins Tyrant Siege Terminators and protects them from enemy close combat units with his present. If there comes a situation in which leading a charge is wise they are a very potent threat for lot's of enemies too, so he makes them more versitile as well.

And that is exactly how I'd play a Space Wolve Praetor. You don't need to put him in a catapult and shoot him at your enemies. Just let him take a unit for a walk and force your opponent to react.

You could put him in a Dreadclaw or Assault Ram though. Then he'd need some bodies arount him which soak up incoming wounds. These don't need to be expansive CC units. A couple of Veterans or even Despoilers with an Apothecarius will do just fine.

[Balthamal]

 

Bathamal

I think I just have a vision that these Legendary leaders of these Legendary warriors should actually achieve something, which to date for me they have not. And I fully accept, I may be using them in the wrong way vs the wrong things. 

 

The Praetor will help tip melee in a like for like fight, but is a risk vs elites (Terminators). Unless fully kitted out he is not a match for a rival Praetor, but spending all the points runs the risk of him never making the points back....

 

So what are the best targets for a Praetor? (Core troops/Support troops?)

 

Yeah I understand your feelings, I've had the same thing myself since the majority of my game group have 40k armies, specifically marines and eldar who are superior to their Legion equivalents and Eldar are well, Eldar (insert generic insult) my praetors were bouncing off all the cheese and in the end I snapped and said to hell with this, you want to run seer councils and librarian conclaves cheesing? Fine, here's Konrad :cuss Curze now let's see how you enjoy getting caned.

 

If you're taking a Praetor, you're instantly giving him a Paragon Blade (else you could take a Delegatus) and Iron Halo so minimum of 160pts and depending on Legion some extra toys. The armour makes a massive difference, if you're giving him Terminator Armour absolutely throw him at equivalents, in fact anything with a 2+ save and no invuln should be a ripe target. There's not really a default unit you'd specifically target with him. Anything non assault orientated will die but then if you have other assault units they can do the same job. You should always keep the way the game is going in mind. If for example you can wipe out a squad because they just happen to be there, go for it. I'd expect at least 1 heavily orientated assault unit to arrive with the rules for the VI Legion so that will have a bearing and most certainly the Legiones Astartes rules.

 

As a side note, veterans with sniper are excellent, especially when combined with heavy bolters and missile launchers 

[GreyCrow]

@Luke : No worries, I get what you're saying and I definitely understand the feeling ;)

 

One way to look at your issue in a positive way : you want your Praetor to be a hero of legend. Fair enough, but first you have to be aware of the scale of the heroism.

 

Let's remember in this game that a 2000 points battle is quite a sizeable engagement with each side fielding multiple mighty tanks than can level buildings, shoot plasma bolts that have the same effective temperature as the core of a star, where each side fields 50+ super engineered soliders of doom which are already an upgrade on the best trained humans of the imperium (picture a civilian with the following statline : WS2, BS2, S2, T2, 1W, A1, Ld5, Sv -).

 

Within this framework, a single man, on foot, with his armour and his weapons, is irrelevant ;) A one man army is not even a Primarch, even Primarchs die. It's a Reaver Titan or a Warlord Titan.

 

War heroes do not defeat entire armies on their own through their combat prowess. They are heroes because their actions allowed the battle to be won around a single, pivotal, moment in a very focused engagement. That's where the Praetors shine.

 

If you want a hero capable of taking on an entire army of 2000+ points, then you're not looking at a hero, you're not even looking at a demi god, you're looking at a god.

 

On the other hand, if you accept that yes, with the help of your Praetor, your 20 men Tactical Squad managed to repel twice their own numbers, then that is heroic. If your Praetor, thanks to its Iron Halo, managed to hold off Lascannon shots while repelling ennemies from objectives they owned, then that is heroic.

[Robzilla]

regarding the last incarnation of the list, replacing the tacticals with vets would add a lot more punch to your midfield shooting, and the vets are handy in assault (not amazing through) in a pinch due to the extra attacks. Ou can even throw in an extra power weapon or two into a shooting squad to add that extra little cc threat.

In short, Vets are good.

 

You could also try and save a few points by downgrading the contemptors to cortus contemptors. Big gain in points and few downsides.

 

I can see the seekers are an alpha strike distraction unit, I would actually consider swapping them out for terminators with combi weapons and power fists. Basically to either use as a means of mauling other elite units (combi plasma and ap2) or of you felt the need, tank hunting.

[Terminus]

I think I just have a vision that these Legendary leaders of these Legendary warriors should actually achieve something, which to date for me they have not. And I fully accept, I may be using them in the wrong way vs the wrong things. 

Legendary and heroic heroes of legend exist to die dramatically to give the lowly neophyte/grizzled sergeant/jaded veteran an opportunity to create their own legend/absolve themselves of prior failures/learn to love again.

[LukeTheButcher]

Wee, its an old post but I thought I would post how I did with this aarmy ad my observations on the Tourney from a newbie perspective.

 

3 Game format, fought Death Guard, Ultramarines and World Eaters.

 

First Game vs Death Guard - Lost

I couldn't touch his LoW. The Falchion, Venator, 2x Medusa and the Quad Mortars tore me a new one.

 

 

Second Game vs Ultramarines - Lost

Massed Quad Mortars and a 10 strong missile launcher squad with a Master of Ordinance and buffed by Gulliman tore me to pieces (aided by a long endwise deployment). So un-interactive it got tiresome: Not a fun game. All I did was move things and then re-pack them once dead.

 

 

Third Game vs World Eaters - Lost

A game to get my teeth into and a real fight. Tore up his army, but Angron di much the same to mine. Very enjoyable and interactive game where I actually felt a participant. Still lost, on points this time from him holding objectives, but good fun all the same.

 

 

Ended up with the wooden spoon for worst general and first prize for army fluff/painting, so bit ying and yang.

 

 

 

So, roll on Russ. Also looking at a Fellblade and a Fire Raptor or three (One Iron Warriors army had Peterarbo, a damacles rhino, 2 Fire Raptors & three Lightenings for turn one alpha strike from hell....).