What role does Vanguard Vets fill for BA?

[Charlo]

Questions:

 

For all questions the Vanguard Vet Sergeant is armed with a chain sword and a plasma pistol. That is the constant. I can't change him (Antor Delassio with a PP swapped out for the HF- love the model!)

 

 

 

1. How would you equip a Blood Angel 4 man vanguard vet squad for monster hunting and independent character/hero/warlord hunting? 

 

Storm Shields/ Thunder Hammers/ Grav Pistols/ Axes/ Fists - essentally mass AP2 with 3++ to tank the scary things they hit back with!

 

2. For an anti-armor role?

 

They can all take melta bombs! Couple of shields to tank stray AP2, a few power weapons for trouble.

 

3. To deal with MEQs?

 

Relic Blade on sarge/ power swords and shields/ lightning claws/ Maybe one Thunderhammer in there for fun/ Plasma pistols if you are a fun guy.

 

Thanks Brothers.

 

Answers in red broski.

[CaptainHelion]

I'd just echo what Charlo said, except also Grav pistols. Love me my Grav pistols.

[appiah4]

OK, so I am in the process of arranging bits for a Vanguard Veteran squad, because you know I don't have one and why not.. But here's me trying to figure out how to arm the lot:

 

 

So I thought I may as well attempt a partial thread hijack and ask for opinions on the below loadout here:

 

Vanguard Veteran Squad (5): Relic Blade, Storm Shield and Grav Pistol x2, Power Lance and Grav Pistol, Power Sword and Grav Pistol, Meltabombs all around.  

 

Basically, a unit that will really hurt MEQ, TEQ with shooting and assault, and has meltabombs to deal with occasional armor..   What say frater?

[CaptainHelion]

Well, *I* like it. But it's an expensive squad, and not many bodies. Every loss will hurt, that sort of thing. I'd suggest swapping the Powerlance for a Poweraxe, so you've got SOME AP2 in assault. Maybe drop one or two of the Grav pistols? Two is probably enough for most cases, if you want to save the points.

[Charlo]

The trick with vanguard is that they become horrifically expensive when you took them up for all situations. They need a specific role or I can guarantee you that the SG or DC will do what they were going to do, but better AND cheaper.

 

If hunting MEQ is your game them the other two choices are just plain better, bar when facing a lot of ap2 on the SG. Though a case can be made for LC/SS vets, but our power weapon are just too expensive until we are in line with the codex.

 

VV get Melta bombs, grav pistols a relic blade and a 3++ as unique to them. So these are your best bets for a loud out.

 

With even just a few Shields, two grav pistols and Melta bombs you can drown an MC in Melta bombs at the same time it will be attacking you thanks to concussion. The Shields will minimise the wounds you take back too. A Relic Blade will hit at S7 ap3 at initiative order and most MC don't have a 2+, so this will deal some damage too.

[appiah4]

Fair advice Charlo; so how about this:

 

Vanguard Veteran Squad (5): Relic Blade Sergeant, Storm Shield and Lightning Claw x2, Grav Pistol and Chainsword x2.  2 Meltabombs.

 

Runs with a Sanguinary Priest wielding Valor's Edge..

[Charlo]

• Close but IMO it's still a little schizophrenic in what it wants to do. LC work well in the MC hunting role though as they get S5 Shred attacks to fish for 6's on even T8.
• I'd always give the entire squad Meltabombs for the sake of a couple extra points.
• I'd also say to add a couple more dudes with just Shields, so that if you fail an invuln you aren't losing a lightning claw too.
• Sarge want's a shield too for challenges and such.

It's just me, but I really dislike the LC. They cost 15pts and with what the squad is hunting a SS + MB costs the same. If they were one MB like in the Marine dex then sure. Outside of the Sanguine Wing just too expensive.

 

For example, for 33pts you get a SG: 2+ Save, S4 AP4 2 shot weapon and a MC-Power Sword/ Axe. Fear too for 1 more point.

 

For a vanguard to be similar in application: it costs 19 base, then a jump pack, then a shield then a claw for a total of just under 10 MB.

 

The reasoning is that they still both get a save vs ap3 and have a power weapon and a jump pack.

[appiah4]

Actually, for what they cost the SS are basically a steal, and the power weapons really ARE overcosted..  How abooouuuut..

 

Vanguard Veteran Squad (5): Relic Blade and Storm Shield Sergeant, Storm Shield and Thunder Hammer, Storm Shield and Grav Pistol x3, 3 melta bombs?

 

This is the last attempt, I promise.

[Charlo]

Yeah you are on track there. I'd still have some goons to eat wounds. 5 men is just too few!

[appiah4]

I'll build two Bolt Pistol and Chainsword goons as well, using spare 3rd edition Death Company models.  So 7 in total, and all is well. :)

[Charlo]

Aye! Sounds good :)

 

Get em in the ETL. That is one advantage we have - lots of points!

[Grazcruzk]

I'm a huge fan of pistol/shield. Replace the chainsword instead of the bolt pistol and you've got a gunslinger with a stormshield.

[Father Mapple]

But what about the supposed new grenade rules changes and how melta bombs might not be worth the price for every member now.

[Charlo]

But what about the supposed new grenade rules changes and how melta bombs might not be worth the price for every member now.

 

Honestly, the wording is ambiguous and not worth debating for now. Plus considering the reaction on the FB page they will no doubt change it!

[Arkangilos]

But what about the supposed new grenade rules changes and how melta bombs might not be worth the price for every member now.

Well when the one guy carrying one dies, you'll be even worse off.

[Riot Earp]

I fielded today as planed 10 VV with 5 SS but without grav pistol.

Along with the conclave, chaplain and sang. priest.

 

They got stuck in a fight turn 1 with 10 csm bikers 1 Lord on bike with the axe of blind fury and 3 witchers all on bike.

I forgott to hit and run (white scars conclave) but i wiped his squad in turn 3. They could even withstand an charge from a grinder turn 2.

 

I send the chaplain  in the first challang then the vv seargent with shield and then one axe libby.

 

The other libbi casted might of hereos on himself which helped to clean up the squad. :)

 

So in comparison with Deathcompany the VV did this time more thanks to the Storm Shield tanking many DS 2 woundsat the same attack outcome.

Sangpriest helped with WS 5 to survive and to hit better. chaplain died to soon but was helpfull in the first turn.

 

All in all i´m verry pleased with this squad and will field them again. 

 

http://i1368.photobucket.com/albums/ag185/Slaughter3000/DSCN3145_zpsx2owgnk8.jpg

[SM1981]

I've got 10 vanguard vets built and ready for paint for the upcoming ETL. 4 with storm shield and power sword, 4 with storm shield and power axe. One with storm shield and power fist, one with lightning claw and storm shield. All with melta bombs and pistols thigh holstered.

 

It's an idea I had been talking about for a while because they look cool, and we're going to be my flying tank / heavy armour killers.

 

Then the FAQ nerfed them before they even saw paint... One grenade / melta bomb per unit per assault phase... So much for 10 melta bomb packing vets decending from skies to kill armour...

[Charlo]

The FAQ is not official yet and, although I admit it through gritted teeth, the current rules do seem like you can only use one per assault phase anyway (although they say throw and the melta bombs you clamp onto enemies so....).

 

It's ambiguous, has had a massive backlash and will probably be changed. Though I expect meltabombs to be the only exception, as Haywire grenades are fully stupid.

 

On topic though - we all know what I've done with my Vanguard :P but.... If melta does get changed I'd actually buy some breachers (or use SG wing shields) and make a squad that pod down with shields and some nice pistols then next turn go vehicle hunting. Get a tanky character and that would be quite cool.

 

Or put them in my Caestus for fluff.

[appiah4]

The FAQ is not official yet and, although I admit it through gritted teeth, the current rules do seem like you can only use one per assault phase anyway (although they say throw and the melta bombs you clamp onto enemies so....).

It's ambiguous, has had a massive backlash and will probably be changed. Though I expect meltabombs to be the only exception, as Haywire grenades are fully stupid.

On topic though - we all know what I've done with my Vanguard but.... If melta does get changed I'd actually buy some breachers (or use SG wing shields) and make a squad that pod down with shields and some nice pistols then next turn go vehicle hunting. Get a tanky character and that would be quite cool.

Or put them in my Caestus for fluff.

I went through a couple of changes in my mind and nothing they do can't be better done by Death Company if they can't spam Meltabombs, really.

[Charlo]

Aye. They're in a very strange place. They have two roles that they're good at:

 

• Monster Hunters
• Elite Hunters

And these are both due to invuln saves and access to ap2 weapons/ special pistols. A Priest does a lot for them, giving WS5 and FNP. If you run them on Foot Corbulo is pretty rad too, adding an extra I.

[Dont-Be-Haten]

Apologies if this is all already stated:

 

The niche our VV have is 2 fold. Storm shields and the Archangels Sanguine Wing formation. I can not stress enough how awesome 20 free power weapons or single lightning claws are, as well as 8-10 free combi-weapons on a sternguard squad is. Granted they can't come in until turn 2 and can't assault until turn 3; which is a glaring weakness: however getting to re-roll the reserve roll and making the mid game/late game push is fantastic. And you're taking a storm Raven anyways so why not try it out. 400 free points of war gear is very much worth it.

 

The Blood Rain Strike Force is another option, crusader and counter attack on the turn they arrive via deep strike is also nice.

 

The storm shields as aforementioned are another perk as grav-happies and other AP2 are all over the place. At least at my locals. So a priest with a squad of VV's with a Chappy is loads of fun to tie up the big uglies as well as threaten loads of other models. I use them mostly as a scalpel to cut out troop choices and objective holders, but I've had the lads tar pit a Death Star or two as well.

[Riot Earp]

I fielded this formation with two sang priest for the vanguards. Fnp and ws5 are great on them. I played them also with 3*SS each squad. Sadly my opponent fielded deamons so no use of he powerweapons but they where even though verry effective. :)

[Dont-Be-Haten]

Not to hijack the thread, but in the two 10 man squads for the archangels sanguine formation would you take 3 or 4 lightning claws and give them storm shields and keep the rest with power weapons of varying AP values to keep the extra attack and still be able to cleave through higher armor. Thoughts?

[Riot Earp]

Per ten man squad i give them 3xss with claw. Some single Claws (2 additional) three axe guys and two sword swingers.

Some would say take more swords instead oft Claes but if you add them each a priest they are Vetter with the reroll to wound as they hit on 3s in most circumstances.

[Charlo]

Best is to give them a good mix Yeah. Shields and claws work well together as they lose the attack anyway. Even if you aren't ignoring saves the S5 and shred will help you force some dice rolls.