40k FAQ, 30k and You! (Ooh that rhymed a bit)

[Slips]

The first draft of the 40k FAQ is up now: https://m.facebook.com/page/mediaset.php?id=1575682476085719&album=pb.1575682476085719.-2207520000.1462389345.&refid=17

 

And it would pay for everyone who plays 30k to give it a look over since we still use the BRB as our base rules and there are a few important clarifications that pertain to us.

[helterskelter]

No more meltabomb breachers! Well you can still do it, just not as effective

[Slips]

Or Vets, or any unit that can take then Squad Wide for that matter.

 

I REALLY hope that theu dont classify MeltaBOMBS as grenades for close combat because that is literally the only stupid thing in the FAQ.

[The4thHorseman]

I think that 30k would be different.

 

Aren't Melta Bombs in 40k additional wargear on a single model basis? So if you were to use it, it would be only one guy using it, also any attached IC would use theirs.

 

In 30k they are bought as a squad wide upgrade. So would you not be able to use them all, as each guy is using his own personal upgrade? Or failing that, could you make a disorganized charge for each squad member, then use their own respective melta bomb?

 

It also says "Thrown", Melta Bombs and Grenades in Melee are not Thrown as such, like they are in the Shooing Phase, so idk. FAQ for an FAQ?

[Slips]

You have a point there; might have been us reading too fast.

[Lord Asvaldir]

That grenade rule is really silly, makes krak grenades utterly useless. How are you supposed to damage tanks when only one model is clamping a krak nade on a tank? Also makes me REALLY happy that I just assembled a unit of melta bomb vets, boy aren't they going to be useful. 

 

Also great to see that GW clarified the infiltrate rule with regards to ICs, now it's super clear that you can't have ICs join infiltrators at all during deployment. Thanks GW. 

[depthcharge12]

I'll reiterate what I said in the main thread about the grenade debacle:

 

think you guys are reading too much into the grenade thing if you have Melta bombs. I mean they aren't listed as a krak GRENADE or frag GRENADE or plasma GRENADE, but they are a Melta BOMB. I know it's pedantic to uppercase, but there lies the emphasis. You cannot throw a Melta bomb like a grenade, nor does it perform like one.

 

Therefore QED...you can use all of the Melta bombs you have in the squad.

 

Edit part 2: it also calls out specifically an example for being able to throw a grenade, and the Melta bomb cannot be thrown, so I think they intended for Melta bombs to still be used en masse.

[Slips]

I will reiterate that if ANYTHING in the FAQ is unclear, leave a comment on it on their FB post asking for clarification.

 

Its the main reason behind why theyre putting this first draft out there and asking if everything included makes sense!

[Lord Asvaldir]

I'll reiterate what I said in the main thread about the grenade debacle:

 

think you guys are reading too much into the grenade thing if you have Melta bombs. I mean they aren't listed as a krak GRENADE or frag GRENADE or plasma GRENADE, but they are a Melta BOMB. I know it's pedantic to uppercase, but there lies the emphasis. You cannot throw a Melta bomb like a grenade, nor does it perform like one.

 

Therefore QED...you can use all of the Melta bombs you have in the squad.

 

Edit part 2: it also calls out specifically an example for being able to throw a grenade, and the Melta bomb cannot be thrown, so I think they intended for Melta bombs to still be used en masse.

 

While you might be right (and I hope you are because I want to use my unit wide melta bombs), given the rules for melta bombs are listed under the grenades page in the rulebook, I don't see how they are not classified as grenades. Sure you can't throw them, but it's clearly the same sort of device as a krak nade, and given it's listed under the same heading I don't see how the same rules don't apply. 

[MakoBoy88]

If I paid 50 points for melta bombs then someone said you can only throw one, I would tell them whoever wrote that answer did not mean Melta Bombs for 15 man Breacher squads where it says EVERY model buys them.

[Robzilla]

Also great to see that GW clarified the infiltrate rule with regards to ICs, now it's super clear that you can't have ICs join infiltrators at all during deployment. Thanks GW.

That said, the infiltrate rule faq does state that units with infiltrate can choose to not use the rule, and deploy normally. Surely this would allow the ic to join them in their normal dz?

 

Also, just having read the ic faq about infiltrate, GW doesn't actually answer the question. When given two options of; does it mean a squad with the infiltrate rule, or just any infiltrating squad, they answer 'no'.

 

Hardly the clearest answer...

 

Most of the faq is good though. Just a few head scratchers, like the grenade issue.

[Lord Asvaldir]

The rule seemed very clearly written to me, characters cannot join infiltrators even if they deploy normally or if they are in deep strike reserve. 

[Robzilla]

Have a re-read, it doesn't address the question directly, just gives a general no, with no elaboration.

 

This is me being pedantic to be fair. I think that's a fair assumption, for what they intended.

 

but with the infiltrate faq, it says that infiltrate doesn't have to be used so they can set up normally with the rest of the army. If they just deploy as normal, without infiltrating, are we safe to assume an ic is OK to join them? Since they aren't using their rule.

[Shaolin_Monkey]

Have a re-read, it doesn't address the question directly, just gives a general no, with no elaboration.

 

This is me being pedantic to be fair. I think that's a fair assumption, for what they intended.

 

but with the infiltrate faq, it says that infiltrate doesn't have to be used so they can set up normally with the rest of the army. If they just deploy as normal, without infiltrating, are we safe to assume an ic is OK to join them? Since they aren't using their rule.

Don't go off the image for the IC one. They stipulate it got messed up. Read all the text under it instead.

[Robzilla]

Aaaahhhh... That explains it.

Pretty clear then. Shame on the ruling, but oh well. At least there's no ambiguity any more!

 

Shame on me for not scrolling down :p

[Blindhamster]

Melta bombs en mass is actually too strong IMO, as there is no counter to it... If melta bombs had the melta rule instead of armour bane? I'd be okay with it, as it'd mean that a relatively expensive upgrade provides protection.

[Slips]

Thing is, Massed Melta Bombs aren't exactly the easiest thing to employ.

1. You Require a squad that can take them en masse: Vets, Breachers, Assault Marines and a few Legion Units.
2. Require a method to deploy them safely so they do their Job. Ie a Dreadclaw for +100 in the case of Tank Hunter Vets since you need an assault vehicle to make this work efficiently.
3. Require you to not fail a charge (might be trivial sometimes but other times not)
4. Must be in range to attack the target.
5. Must be able to roll a 3+ unless the Target in question is immobile with 1 attack per marine.

Unlike, say a Melta Guns:

1. Drive up in a much cheaper Vehicle into shooting range. Luckily you dont need an Assault Vehicle.
2. Roll To-Hit with Melta Gun, bonus points in Melta Range.

Especially when you can get a 10 Man Meltagun squad for roughly equivalent costs to Melta Bomb Squads but with much easier application or have twin-linked Melta Gun Squads on Bikes who can also have Melta Bombs.

 

The only thing that Pushes Meltabomb Squads into the "strong" Territory is Vets since they can get Tank Hunters.

 

I dont see anyone Complaining About Chainfists which are essentially Identical to Meltabombs but aren't limited to 1 Attack Per Model and Ap2. Sure, only Termies and Dreads can take them but a squad of 5 Termies with 5 Chain Fists is 15 S8 Armorbane Attacks on the Charge.

[MakoBoy88]

^This.

[ronin_cse]

Thing is, Massed Melta Bombs aren't exactly the easiest thing to employ.

1. You Require a squad that can take them en masse: Vets, Breachers, Assault Marines and a few Legion Units.
2. Require a method to deploy them safely so they do their Job. Ie a Dreadclaw for +100 in the case of Tank Hunter Vets since you need an assault vehicle to make this work efficiently.
3. Require you to not fail a charge (might be trivial sometimes but other times not)
4. Must be in range to attack the target.
5. Must be able to roll a 3+ unless the Target in question is immobile with 1 attack per marine.

Unlike, say a Melta Guns:

1. Drive up in a much cheaper Vehicle into shooting range. Luckily you dont need an Assault Vehicle.
2. Roll To-Hit with Melta Gun, bonus points in Melta Range.

Especially when you can get a 10 Man Meltagun squad for roughly equivalent costs to Melta Bomb Squads but with much easier application or have twin-linked Melta Gun Squads on Bikes who can also have Melta Bombs.

 

The only thing that Pushes Meltabomb Squads into the "strong" Territory is Vets since they can get Tank Hunters.

 

I dont see anyone Complaining About Chainfists which are essentially Identical to Meltabombs but aren't limited to 1 Attack Per Model and Ap2. Sure, only Termies and Dreads can take them but a squad of 5 Termies with 5 Chain Fists is 15 S8 Armorbane Attacks on the Charge.

 

I'd say people don't complain because it feels "better" when your expensive vehicle gets destroyed by an elite and expensive unit like terminators all with chain fists.

[Slips]

I mean, Tac Vets with Melta Bombs are also an Elite, Expensive Unit. And Assault Marines and Breachers with Melta Bombs will also run you 300+ Points Per Squad.

 

So thats all down to perception of the unit itself.

[Balthamal]

The best thing they did there was clarify the whole "infiltrators" nonsense. 

[Gorgoff]

If you want to know that just ask them. That is the whole point about that First Draft.

[Ishagu]

I like the grenade change.

 

Gives Dreads a better chance.

[IronDrake28]

I like the grenade change.

 

Gives Dreads a better chance.

But Walkers get hit on the front unless immobilised, you must have some bad luck :P

[Slips]

Its not like 30k Dreads are bad either.

 

I mean, what feels better:

• 300+ Point Melta Bomb Vet Squad who will lose at least 1-2+ Squad Mates to a roughly 200 Point Contemptor-Prime before nuking it.

OR

• 300+ Point Melta Bomb Vet Squads singular Melta bomb fails to kill said Contemptor (fail to pen, invuln or failed the 4+ To-HIt roll due to WS5) and loses combat by the number of Marines it just killed and gets swept?

Remember, we dont have the strongest rule in the game AKA ATSKNF.