GM LFG: DW into DH 2nd Ed/OW Adaptation

[Karack Blackstone]

Simple Squad mode sounds best, albeit, there needs to be a way to opt out of Squad mode within range, as well.

 

Thanks for the great ideas, guys; what skills are you thinking would best fit, should it vary per Chapter?

 

Otherwise, things look promising thus far.

[Black Cohort]

I should have the proposed list of aptitudes and tiers for deathwatch specific talents done later today.

 

I think each chapter should at max give 1 starting skill and 1 talent.

[Karack Blackstone]

I should have the proposed list of aptitudes and tiers for deathwatch specific talents done later today.

 

I think each chapter should at max give 1 starting skill and 1 talent.

 

I agree and concur; the only concern I have is the number of skills a Deathwatch Marine Sheet indicates each Astartes starts with at character generation.

 

Outside of the above, I greatly appreciate the assistance by both you, Black Cohort, and Slipstreams. This is starting to come together, and I'm not in a possible confirmation bias situation, as the feedback and ideas thus far have been great!

[Black Cohort]

Nothing says we can't change the list of starting skills for marines.

[Karack Blackstone]

Nothing says we can't change the list of starting skills for marines.

 

Quite true.

 

That said, if we remove too many, or add too many, game balance may become an issue overall, unless I account for the changes made.

 

Still, thanks for the open minded comment.

 

Feedback is still, and always will be, welcome.

[Slips]

We can always remove the more ambiguous skills or those that won't be all-that-useful for Marines to Know.

 

Like:

• Gamble
• Charm (They intimidate more than Charm Imo, unless you're BA or UM)
• Barter. Depends on the Situation but Marines just usually get their Gear because they're Marines.
• Disguise. Depends on the use. If its to disguise yourself to blend into a crowd, thats pretty hard for a 7-8ft tall marine and its pretty rare that they'll be out of Power Armor when on a Mission unless they're a specific Type of Marine like the Solo Kill-Marine or are infiltrating a location in Scout Armor. But even then. Chapters like the Raven Guard who are infiltrators of all stripes would make sense to have. Some of the more up front chapters like Space Wolves? Not really.

The others, I'm having a hard time paring down the list.

[Black Cohort]

Google Doc with deathwatch specific talents and what their tier and aptitudes are.  As always everything is subject to change.

 

The list of skills and talents adeptus astartes get for free is not unreasonable having looked at it.  There are a few things you could debate, but I can make an argument in favour of all of them.

[Karack Blackstone]

Google Doc with deathwatch specific talents and what their tier and aptitudes are.  As always everything is subject to change.

 

The list of skills and talents adeptus astartes get for free is not unreasonable having looked at it.  There are a few things you could debate, but I can make an argument in favour of all of them.

 

I like the simplicity and applicability of this set of talents and their tiers.

 

Within reason, I think the selected in the document is a great place to start from, as far as DW only stuff goes; what are the feelings about starting XP total, the starting talents, and starting skills? The Aptitudes also seem to work as well.

[Black Cohort]

Assuming that all stat, skill and talent costs are the same as only war.  I would recommend that starting skills, talents and such are the same as the original book and that characters have somewhere between 600 and 1000 xp.

[Karack Blackstone]

Assuming that all stat, skill and talent costs are the same as only war.  I would recommend that starting skills, talents and such are the same as the original book and that characters have somewhere between 600 and 1000 xp.

 

Hm...

 

With a ballpark shot of 15,000 total, what are the feelings on 11,000 total?

 

That's 1,000 XP to spend, or so, and 10,000 XP base, charged for the Astartes training, implants, etc.

 

I'm inclined to push it to 2,000 XP starting, however, that's possibly too much. Further thoughts greatly appreciated; I do like to hand out a great deal of XP, usually...

[Black Cohort]

keep in mind that a lot of talents in deathwatch cost 800 to 1000 xp, even if it is fairly important to that class, lots of stuff will only cost 2-600 with the new system, so 100 xp will go a lot farther in this version.

[Karack Blackstone]

Cool, no problem; the starting XP to spend is 1,000 then.

 

I think this will be a good benchmark starting point for now; that said, it may need to change. The XP is going to likely be FAST to spend, as most things cost between 100 and 500 XP.

 

I think maybe 250 XP, maybe 300 XP for a great session is in order? This is of course due to the use of Only War rules, with a Deathwatch veneer.

 

Thanks for the continued thoughts, Black Cohort; it really aids me to brainstorm this with others here.

 

Slipstreams, you're awesome too; your feedback and the consideration you give is evident to me in your posts.

 

Thanks to both of you.

[Black Cohort]

No worries.  I think that is everything that is needed to make characters for the campaign then?

[Karack Blackstone]

Yep; now I need to format up the OP into an actual Character Generation Info document.

 

Should be done either today or tomorrow.

[Black Cohort]

Are the prices of psychic powers going to change? Right now they range from 500 to 2000 xp.

[Karack Blackstone]

Are the prices of psychic powers going to change? Right now they range from 500 to 2000 xp.

 

I was thinking, what would turning them into a Tier type system do?

 

I think some are more flexible in terms of changes than others; that said, I can see arguments for and against both changing them, and keeping them the same.

 

My gut tells me that if they were to be turned into a Tier system, it could work well; the question is, how to do exactly that idea. My first thought is to take the powers, give them Aptitude requirements, two each, and then a talent tier level, and call it done. I'd really like to hear what thoughts are on doing this idea; for, against, alternatives, etc.

 

After this question is hashed out, I think now that the OP is altered already, are we good to go as far as character generation into this thread is concerned?

[Black Cohort]

 

Are the prices of psychic powers going to change? Right now they range from 500 to 2000 xp.

 

I was thinking, what would turning them into a Tier type system do?

 

I think some are more flexible in terms of changes than others; that said, I can see arguments for and against both changing them, and keeping them the same.

 

My gut tells me that if they were to be turned into a Tier system, it could work well; the question is, how to do exactly that idea. My first thought is to take the powers, give them Aptitude requirements, two each, and then a talent tier level, and call it done. I'd really like to hear what thoughts are on doing this idea; for, against, alternatives, etc.

 

After this question is hashed out, I think now that the OP is altered already, are we good to go as far as character generation into this thread is concerned?

 

 

 

Only war doesn't use tiers and aptitudes for psychic powers, but they cost far less than in deathwatch.

[Karack Blackstone]

 

 

Are the prices of psychic powers going to change? Right now they range from 500 to 2000 xp.

 

I was thinking, what would turning them into a Tier type system do?

 

I think some are more flexible in terms of changes than others; that said, I can see arguments for and against both changing them, and keeping them the same.

 

My gut tells me that if they were to be turned into a Tier system, it could work well; the question is, how to do exactly that idea. My first thought is to take the powers, give them Aptitude requirements, two each, and then a talent tier level, and call it done. I'd really like to hear what thoughts are on doing this idea; for, against, alternatives, etc.

 

After this question is hashed out, I think now that the OP is altered already, are we good to go as far as character generation into this thread is concerned?

 

 

 

Only war doesn't use tiers and aptitudes for psychic powers, but they cost far less than in deathwatch.

 

 

K; 100, 300, 500, 700 sound like a decent starting point, or is that still too low?

[Karack Blackstone]

Also, going to need to ask for some Successor Chapter Aptitude sets, starting with the Lamenters, please?

 

Boudan in the Sign-Ups thread would like to play a Lamenters Astartes, and I hope to be able to see this done.

 

I was thinking:

 

- Offense

- Defense

- Willpower

- Toughness

 

Not sure if this is fluffy or not; if not, then it's entirely workable to change them to something that does work, both in fluff and in gameplay.

[Black Cohort]

 

 

 

Are the prices of psychic powers going to change? Right now they range from 500 to 2000 xp.

 

I was thinking, what would turning them into a Tier type system do?

 

I think some are more flexible in terms of changes than others; that said, I can see arguments for and against both changing them, and keeping them the same.

 

My gut tells me that if they were to be turned into a Tier system, it could work well; the question is, how to do exactly that idea. My first thought is to take the powers, give them Aptitude requirements, two each, and then a talent tier level, and call it done. I'd really like to hear what thoughts are on doing this idea; for, against, alternatives, etc.

 

After this question is hashed out, I think now that the OP is altered already, are we good to go as far as character generation into this thread is concerned?

 

 

 

Only war doesn't use tiers and aptitudes for psychic powers, but they cost far less than in deathwatch.

 

 

K; 100, 300, 500, 700 sound like a decent starting point, or is that still too low?

 

 

for psychic powers?  In only war they vary from 200 to 500 xp.

 

Also in the OP you should note which skills are trained and which are basic.

 

Trained Skills

Awareness

Ciphers (chapter runes)

Climb

Common Lore (Adeptus Astartes, Deathwatch, Imperium and War)

Concealment

Drive (ground vehicles)

Forbidden Lore (xenos)

Literacy

Navigation (surface)

Scholastic Lore (Codex Astartes)

Silent move

Speak (Low Gothic, High Gothic)

Tracking

 

Basic Skills

Barter

Carouse

Charm

Command

Contortionist

Decieve

Disguise

Dodge

Evaluate

Gamble

Inquiry

Intimidate

Logic

Scruitiny

Search

Swim

 

 

For successor chapters, in most cases they should be able to use the same aptitudes as their first founding.

[Karack Blackstone]

Okay, 200 to 500 makes sense as a good range to start off.

 

I ... will give the player a choice, then; Blood Angels, the above Lamenters example, or, with further review between the two of us, Boudan and I, a chance to select four, pick any two.

 

This seems the most sound logic to me, right now; yes, I can still be wrong, too. I just hope I am not...

[Slips]

Well, I guess it depends on the Successor Chapter.

 

For Example, Crimson Fists would pretty much have no real difference to the Imperial Fists except for an aptitude at killing Orks.

 

However, Black Templar, should still have the stubborn nature of a VIIth Legionnaire but with a more pronounced CC focus.

 

Dark Angels and their Successors being what they are, I don't think there would be much Variation.

[Karack Blackstone]

Well, I guess it depends on the Successor Chapter.

 

For Example, Crimson Fists would pretty much have no real difference to the Imperial Fists except for an aptitude at killing Orks.

 

However, Black Templar, should still have the stubborn nature of a VIIth Legionnaire but with a more pronounced CC focus.

 

Dark Angels and their Successors being what they are, I don't think there would be much Variation.

 

All very true; I will let the players' selections of Chapter dictate what Aptitudes are presented as their four.

 

This will require further input at likely random times, so, please bear with me.

 

I'm willing to use an honor system with dice, subject to change, if people are actively too lucky; that said, I have an old roll20.com I can reacquire if need be, for rolls.

[Slips]

Roll20 would be the easiest to keep a track of due to the Dice Log in the Chat Window.

[Black Cohort]

So it would seem that I missed a bunch of talents that were cut in several of the games but cut at some point between deathwatch and only war.  I will update my spreadsheet and re-link when I have a chance.