GriffonI92 Posted May 5, 2016 Share Posted May 5, 2016 So, finally got around to re working a list I had thrown out a few months ago and came up with this based off of input and advice. Buddy and I are starting 30K with a goal of 1500 pts by September. Going for an all comers base list but he will be playing Mechanicum with some White Scars Allies. Basic idea is that the Praetor will go with the Breachers and they will be in the Storm Eagle and and be deployed around the center. The Tactical Squads will be in support and push either flanks and the Sicarann will be fire support with the Storm Eagle after it drops off its cargo. The Jetbikes will be harassing the enemy the whole time. Thanks in advance +++ Emperor's Children (1485pts) +++ ++ Legiones Astartes: Crusade Army List (Age of Darkness) (1485pts) ++ + HQ (125pts) + Legion Praetor (125pts) [Artificer Armour, Iron Halo (25pts), Master of the Legion] + Troops (805pts) + Legion Breacher Siege Squad (355pts) [Flamer (10pts), 2x Graviton Gun (30pts), 14x Legion Breacher Siege Space Marines (140pts), Legion Vexilla (15pts)] ····Legion Breacher Siege Sergeant (25pts) [Artificer Armour (10pts), Power Fist (15pts)] Legion Tactical Squad (225pts) [Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier (35pts), 9x Legion Tactical Space Marines (90pts), Legion Vexilla (10pts)] ····Legion Tactical Sergeant (30pts) [Artificer Armour (10pts), Melta Bombs (5pts), Phoenix Spear (15pts)] Legion Tactical Squad (225pts) [Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier (35pts), 9x Legion Tactical Space Marines (90pts), Legion Vexilla (10pts)] ····Legion Tactical Sergeant (30pts) [Artificer Armour (10pts), Melta Bombs (5pts), Phoenix Spear (15pts)] + Fast Attack (360pts) + Legion Jetbike Sky Hunter Squadron (150pts) [Melta Bombs (15pts), 3x Space Marine Sky Hunters (105pts)] Legion Storm Eagle Assault Gunship (210pts) (For Breacher Squad) + Heavy Support (195pts) + Legion Sicaran Battle Tank (195pts) [Armoured Ceramite (20pts), Lascannons (40pts)] Created with BattleScribe (http://www.battlescribe.net) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1ncarnadine Posted May 6, 2016 Share Posted May 6, 2016 A couple things I see right away: A Praetor without a Paragon Blade or even a Phoenix Spear? You probably want the former although you could make do with the latter if you absolutely had to. Next, you have a Praetor but are not running a Rite of War? You may not even need a Praetor at that point. However, that ties in to my next advice, which hinges on... Are you running Loyalist or Traitor? Because if you run as a Traitor, you can take the 3rd Company Elite Rite, and replace your Tactical Squads with Kakophoni as troops (and then those also gain Relentless). I highly recommend this, as you have a lot of points invested in troops. Even without running 3rd Co Elite, I would personally cut a Tac Squad to make room for almost literally anything else. Also, you may want to reconsider Graviton Guns for the Breachers if they're deploying via Storm Eagle. Their arrival will rely on reserve rolls, then they have to get out, and then you have to count on them not moving after that deployment if you want them to fire. And THEN they have short range. Graviton Guns being Heavy and Blast can be a real pain for getting them to work well, and I think in this instance you might be better served by another option. Maybe melta-guns to pop Krios tanks or put some wounds on T7/8 automata. Final point: Armoured Ceramite on the Sicaran is totally up to you and what your friend ends up bringing to the table, but you may find it's just a points sink on a vehicle without AV14 on at least one facing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omnivision6 Posted May 7, 2016 Share Posted May 7, 2016 At 1500 I would prefer to have everything on the table. And I would take Centurians over a Preator at such a low point game. Here is my 1500pt list as a reference. It plays to objectives and tries to cover all the bases. +++ 1500 EC (1500pts) +++ ++ Legiones Astartes: Crusade Army List (Age of Darkness) ++ + HQ + Legion Centurion [Artificer Armour, Early Crusade Honours] Legion Centurion [Artificer Armour, Melta Bombs, Phoenix Spear, Sonic Shrieker] + Troops + Legion Tactical Squad [14x Legion Tactical Space Marines, Legion Vexilla] ····Legion Tactical Sergeant [Artificer Armour, Melta Bombs, Power Fist] Legion Tactical Squad [14x Legion Tactical Space Marines, Legion Vexilla] ····Legion Tactical Sergeant [Artificer Armour, Melta Bombs, Power Fist] + Elites + Contemptor-Cortus Class Dreadnought Talon ····Cortus Dreadnought [Dreadnought Close Combat Weapon with inbuilt twin-linked bolter, 2x Plasma Blaster] Contemptor-Mortis Dreadnought [Two Kheres Pattern Assault Cannons] Legion Veteran Tactical Squad [2x Heavy Bolter and Suspensor Web, Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier, 9x Legion Veteran Space Marines, Legion Vexilla, Sniper] ····Legion Veteran Sergeant [Artificer Armour, Phoenix Spear] + Heavy Support + Legion Sicaran Battle Tank [Dozer Blade, Lascannons] + Legion + Legion Astartes [iII: Emperor's Children, Traitor] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caustic63 Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 I'm not familiar with the Early Crusade Honors rule, but it seems like there is a lot of wasted potential in your HQ slot. Since you aren't running a Rite of War, you can get away with a single compulsory-legal Consul like a Chaplain (ideal), Delegatus, or a Forge Lord/Siege Breaker/Vigilator. You can even drop the one Centurion and use the spare points to buy two Apothecaries with Augury Scanners for your Tactical Squads (FNP and Interceptor are really worth it on them). I'd also swap the Power Fists for Phoenix Spears on your Tactical Sergeants since you already have Meltabombs. Otherwise, your force seems pretty workable in either a Maru Skara or 3rd Company Elite RoW configuration. Have you looked at either of them as a possibility? Tacticals and Veterans with Sonic Shriekers are quite effective if you end up in Combat. Otherwise, I'd go for double Meltagun, Meltabombs and Tank Hunters on your Veterans. You already have a lot of torrent fire, and legion armies tend to be fairly armour heavy so they would almost always be useful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GriffonI92 Posted May 11, 2016 Author Share Posted May 11, 2016 So, decided to re-work the list and felt that I really needed a Rite. I started out just going with a Counsel Delgatus but then figured I had the points and sprang for the Praetor. Went with the 3rd Company to go more unique and fluffy as well. Sicarian's seem like a no brainer and the Jetbikes are kind of a love of the models but to harass. The Kakophani will be my base with the Rhinos pushing them up to opportune spots supported by the Sicarian. The Praetor will go with the Palatine Blades in the Anvillus. This list is meant to be a base. We are already talking of jumping to 2K but money and time is the issue. Eventually looking to have 2.5K to 3K for games. +++ 3rd Company (1447pts) +++ ++ Legiones Astartes: Crusade Army List (Age of Darkness) (1447pts) ++ + HQ (147pts) + Legion Praetor (147pts) [Artificer Armour, Iron Halo, Phoenix Spear, Sonic Shrieker] ····Master of the Legion [3rd Company Elite] + Troops (600pts) + The Kakophani of the Emperor's Children (300pts) [9x Chora] ····Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier [Combi-Weapon] ····Orchestrator [Artificer Armour] The Kakophani of the Emperor's Children (300pts) [9x Chora] ····Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier [Combi-Weapon] ····Orchestrator [Artificer Armour] + Elites (275pts) + Palatine Blade Squad (275pts) [9x Palatine Warrior, 2x Pheonix Spear, Sonic Shriekers] + Fast Attack (250pts) + Anvillus Pattern Dreadclaw Drop Pod (100pts) Legion Jetbike Sky Hunter Squadron (150pts) [Melta Bombs, 3x Space Marine Sky Hunters] + Heavy Support (175pts) + Legion Sicaran Battle Tank (175pts) [Lascannons] + Legion + Legion Astartes [iII: Emperor's Children, Traitor] Created with BattleScribe (http://www.battlescribe.net) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caustic63 Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 I see you have about 50 points free. I'd give the Praetor a Paragon Blade instead of a Phoenix Spear, since the former maintains its strength and AP bonus over multiple combat rounds while providing a chance at Instant Death and the possibility of combining it with a Power Fist or Thunderhammer. I also think you should probably give your sergeants Meltabombs to guard against Dreadnaughts, especially the leader of the Palatine Blades (who should also probably have a spear). A Multimelta/Volkite on the Jetbikes wouldn't be a bad idea either thanks to the chance of side armour shots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GriffonI92 Posted May 11, 2016 Author Share Posted May 11, 2016 So made these changes bringing me to 1498 pts. + HQ (177pts) + Legion Praetor (177pts) [Artificer Armour, Iron Halo, Melta Bombs, Paragon Blade, Phoenix Spear, Sonic Shrieker] ····Master of the Legion [3rd Company Elite] {Gave a Paragon Blade instead} + Elites (290pts) + Palatine Blade Squad (290pts) [9x Palatine Warrior, 2x Pheonix Spear, Sonic Shriekers] ····Palatine Prefector [Melta Bombs, Pheonix Spear] {Totally forgot to give the champion anything. He got a Phoenix Spear and Melta Bombs} + Fast Attack (256pts) + Legion Jetbike Sky Hunter Squadron (156pts) [Melta Bombs, Sonic Shriekers, 3x Space Marine Sky Hunters] {Wanted to add the Multi Melta but couldn't get the points in so I gave them all Sonic Shriekers....more fluffy....} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da Once & Future Git Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 Drop the speak from the Praetor, it's doing absolutely nothing but costing you 20 points. That'll give you the multi-melta and something else. Otherwise, I like it a lot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GriffonI92 Posted May 12, 2016 Author Share Posted May 12, 2016 Good catch! With the spare 20 pts I added a Multi-Melta to the Jetbikes and gave another Palatine a Pheonix Spear giving the squad of 9 3 all together and points to 1498. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da Once & Future Git Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 Good catch! With the spare 20 pts I added a Multi-Melta to the Jetbikes and gave another Palatine a Pheonix Spear giving the squad of 9 3 all together and points to 1498. Perfect! I think that extra spear should go to the unit's Prefector, he has more flare! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caustic63 Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 I don't think you can give your Skyhunters Sonic Shriekers... they aren't Infantry in Power Armour or Artificer Armour :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GriffonI92 Posted May 12, 2016 Author Share Posted May 12, 2016 The Prefector already has a Pheonix Spear. As for the Sonic Shriekers on the Jetbikes I was going off of what Battlescribe allowed and just re-read the Rite out of the book itself (Book VI Retribution) and you are right Caustic63. Thanks for the catch! With that I gave the Orchestrator for the 1st Kakophani a Melta-bomb. Updated list with all changes!! +++ 3rd Company (1497pts) +++ ++ Legiones Astartes: Crusade Army List (Age of Darkness) (1497pts) ++ + HQ (157pts) + Legion Praetor (157pts) [Artificer Armour, Iron Halo, Melta Bombs, Paragon Blade, Sonic Shrieker] ····Master of the Legion [3rd Company Elite] + Troops (605pts) + The Kakophani of the Emperor's Children (305pts) [9x Chora] ····Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier [Combi-Weapon] ····Orchestrator [Artificer Armour, Melta Bombs] The Kakophani of the Emperor's Children (300pts) [9x Chora] ····Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier [Combi-Weapon] ····Orchestrator [Artificer Armour] + Elites (300pts) + Palatine Blade Squad (300pts) [9x Palatine Warrior, 3x Pheonix Spear, Sonic Shriekers] ····Palatine Prefector [Melta Bombs, Pheonix Spear] + Fast Attack (260pts) + Anvillus Pattern Dreadclaw Drop Pod (100pts) Legion Jetbike Sky Hunter Squadron (160pts) [Melta Bombs, Multi-Melta, 3x Space Marine Sky Hunters] + Heavy Support (175pts) + Legion Sicaran Battle Tank (175pts) [Lascannons] + Legion + Legion Astartes [iII: Emperor's Children, Traitor] Created with BattleScribe (http://www.battlescribe.net) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1ncarnadine Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 Where is the Praetor? He probably wants to be with the Palatine Blades in the Dreadclaw, but currently won't fit as they're maxed out to 10. Looking good though. I've been playing around with a 2k list that looks really similar, although it runs Eidolon instead of a regular Praetor. Also a Sicaran in place of the jetbikes, and podding Grav-Cortus round out the rest because screw Spartans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GriffonI92 Posted May 12, 2016 Author Share Posted May 12, 2016 Praetor will most definitely be with the Palatine Blade Squad. And I see that now, I thought the number of that squad seemed to good to be true. So now I am saving another 25 points! haha I added a Melta bomb to the other Orchestrator giving me 20 extra.... Thinking a Plasma pistol to the Prefector or I can add 2 more Pheonix Spear's to the Palatine Blade squad giving me 5 Pheonix Spears in the squad of 9, not including the Prefector's. You take two Sicarians then 'LetsYouDown'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GriffonI92 Posted July 3, 2016 Author Share Posted July 3, 2016 So still debating on which Rhinos to go with (Heresy/FW version or 40K version) and was thinking: Are the Rhinos even worth the points? The Kakphani already have Relentless and will be hopefully shooting every turn. They can always move into cover and am thinking the points for the Rhinos could be better spent. What do you guys think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GorgeousGoat Posted July 4, 2016 Share Posted July 4, 2016 Lurked and reviewed everything written here. It's a fluffy and elite list imo. It can be countered v.hard by quad mortars, whirlwinds and Melta Predators to start with - which several guys in my local meta love running :-(. Your Palatines, as soon as they get out of the drop pod are going to get shot a lot and unless you roll lucky, or they miss - will be deleted, which I have found a lot. You have a huge points sink of over 1/3 of your a drop pod, praetor and palatines. They drop in, they survive and kill 1 unit that turn. Next turn, they will be either be kited/killed or just killed. Key issue for me though - lack of anti-tank. You have 1MM on the jetbikes, a sicaran and lots of S6 with the Kakophoni (amazing for popping a rhino with one squad, next squad delete the unit that was inside of it). If you came up against Predators or other Sicarans, I believe you will struggle. Understand you have melta-bombs but I'd look at a contemptor mortis with Dual Kheres at least for the rending shots. BUT - changes to this list: Get a Spartan/Phobos for your Palatine deathstar to at least allow them a charge - you don't need that many either if you have AP2 at higher Initiative through Champion and Praetor etc. Drop MB's on Kakophoni - you have 42" usable range thanks to relentless, you do not want to be any closer, remember they have pinning - so use them on LD based artillery any chance you get. Nothing like pinning a unit of quad mortars :-D. With less Palatines, loss of the drop pod and adding of Phobos/Spartan you will have a good distraction unit hopefully, and while these "go up the middle" you can use your Kakophoni and Sicaran in the 1-2 of kill a rhino, then the unit etc. Finally - give your skyhunter unit sergeant a Phoenix Spear - get them in combat on your turn, stay there hopefully until the end of their turn, turn after - zoom off and MB some of their tanks :-D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caustic63 Posted July 4, 2016 Share Posted July 4, 2016 Lurked and reviewed everything written here. It's a fluffy and elite list imo. It can be countered v.hard by quad mortars, whirlwinds and Melta Predators to start with - which several guys in my local meta love running :-(. Your Palatines, as soon as they get out of the drop pod are going to get shot a lot and unless you roll lucky, or they miss - will be deleted, which I have found a lot. You have a huge points sink of over 1/3 of your a drop pod, praetor and palatines. They drop in, they survive and kill 1 unit that turn. Next turn, they will be either be kited/killed or just killed. Key issue for me though - lack of anti-tank. You have 1MM on the jetbikes, a sicaran and lots of S6 with the Kakophoni (amazing for popping a rhino with one squad, next squad delete the unit that was inside of it). If you came up against Predators or other Sicarans, I believe you will struggle. Understand you have melta-bombs but I'd look at a contemptor mortis with Dual Kheres at least for the rending shots. BUT - changes to this list: Get a Spartan/Phobos for your Palatine deathstar to at least allow them a charge - you don't need that many either if you have AP2 at higher Initiative through Champion and Praetor etc. Drop MB's on Kakophoni - you have 42" usable range thanks to relentless, you do not want to be any closer, remember they have pinning - so use them on LD based artillery any chance you get. Nothing like pinning a unit of quad mortars :-D. With less Palatines, loss of the drop pod and adding of Phobos/Spartan you will have a good distraction unit hopefully, and while these "go up the middle" you can use your Kakophoni and Sicaran in the 1-2 of kill a rhino, then the unit etc. Finally - give your skyhunter unit sergeant a Phoenix Spear - get them in combat on your turn, stay there hopefully until the end of their turn, turn after - zoom off and MB some of their tanks :-D. With a Dreadclaw Drop Pod there's nothing forcing the Palatine Blades to unload from the transport the turn they arrive. A Dreadclaw is also an assault vehicle, so this allows a first turn arrival with Flat Out/Jink followed by a well positioned Turn 2 assault provided the Dreadclaw isn't been shot down. A Land Raider at 1500 points is not a good idea unless you are running a Deathstar build (in which case Emperor's Children are not the best for that). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GorgeousGoat Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 Caustic - that is understood, but wherever the drop pod goes, either the enemy will destroy the drop pod, or kite it. I agree with your point you could go for a nice Turn 2 assault but as soon as you get out, best you can hope for is 1 unit destroyed before being counter destroyed with only a 3+ save on your Palatines. A Whirlwind Scorpius will have a field day. Ultimately, we are talking about a very glass cannon unit of Palatines and how to get them to a place where they can do their job, I run a Spartan at 1,500pts for my tacticals (extra cc and shriekers) and when they get out and charge, they mop up. However, the Spartan or LR will soak up fire that will otherwise be focused on something else, something which the dreadclaw may be able to do. I suppose it's player choices and what you're up against. Will be really interesting to hear back on how you get on. Best of luck!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GriffonI92 Posted July 5, 2016 Author Share Posted July 5, 2016 I have always been concerned with my Anti-Tank capabilities with this list but with 1500 points I figured this list as a base to expand on. The Melta Bombs on the Orchestrator is a bit ridiculous. This list, the RoW to be specific, is already at a disadvantage as my only opponent right now for 30K is going to be Ad Mech. Appreciate the lurk btw GorgeousGoat! Love the input. The reasoning with the Dreadclaw, aside from the cool model, is it does help a bit with that anti tank as its flame attack is hitting the weakest armour value of a vehicle when it comes in. I do agree too with Caustic63 that a Land Raider seems like a lot of points at 1500, though I would love one. Another option could be taking a Storm Eagle for the Palatines.... Also, dropping the Rhinos for the Kakopani, good choice than to free up points? (About to make a FW order...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GriffonI92 Posted July 5, 2016 Author Share Posted July 5, 2016 Caustic - that is understood, but wherever the drop pod goes, either the enemy will destroy the drop pod, or kite it. I agree with your point you could go for a nice Turn 2 assault but as soon as you get out, best you can hope for is 1 unit destroyed before being counter destroyed with only a 3+ save on your Palatines. A Whirlwind Scorpius will have a field day. Ultimately, we are talking about a very glass cannon unit of Palatines and how to get them to a place where they can do their job, I run a Spartan at 1,500pts for my tacticals (extra cc and shriekers) and when they get out and charge, they mop up. However, the Spartan or LR will soak up fire that will otherwise be focused on something else, something which the dreadclaw may be able to do. I suppose it's player choices and what you're up against. Will be really interesting to hear back on how you get on. Best of luck!! Another option is giving the Palatines Jump Packs, which I was going to model to be able to interchange anywase. Just saw this post and going to look at Land Raider options real quick... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GorgeousGoat Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 Don't give the Palatines JP's - it makes them a huge cost sink imo - unless you can outflank them through Maru Skara or something. I have mine magnetised with the Ashen circle JP's as if you outflank them with JP's near their back lines (Heavy Support Squads etc) then they will have to do something about them.. however, again the squishy-ness of them comes in. Storm Eagle - order one. Maybe two. I love my air cavalry :-). The only issue is guaranteeing they arrive outside of Maru Skara. Best bet, try and roll on strategic for re-roll reserves. I only run Kakophoni in Rhinos when running 3rd RoW in Maelstrom based 30k as the extra 6" can be handy when trying to secure objectives etc. A good source of your anti-tank can be a Lightning Strike Fighter, Kraken's are your friends or run the Storm Eagle with 2TL-Lascannon/1TL-MM and enjoy damaging a vehicle (jinking at worst) next turn, then disembarking onto their units that you see best. Rhinos are always handy, as for 35pts, it's extra survivability for vets or troops etc. Just find some cheap 40K versions, not the hideously expensive FW kits imo. (£30+) for a rhino LOL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GriffonI92 Posted July 5, 2016 Author Share Posted July 5, 2016 Yea, the Jump Packs are 90 pts.; might as well keep the Dreadclaw for 10 more pts.. Was thinking of going with the Contemptor Cortus Dreadnought though lately... I guess I will keep the list I have now I guess. Dropping the Melta Bombs from the Orchestrator and adding another Paltine Blade to round me out to 1500. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GorgeousGoat Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 Yup. Best of luck to you in executing this strategy in flawless perfection. Dreadclaw over JP's everytime! Have you put Artificer on the Palatine Champ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heptus Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 Dreadclaw over JP's everytime! Have you put Artificer on the Palatine Champ? Isn't it a default wargear, not an optional one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GorgeousGoat Posted July 6, 2016 Share Posted July 6, 2016 Apologies if so, I don't really use them that often to know. Elites choices usually taken up by others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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