Helias_Tancred Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 I'm reading Fear to Tread for a second time, and I realize both of these legendary Blood Angel leaders are interesting characters in the novel. Azkaellon has the luxury of being featured in several other short stories and an audio drama, so we get even more of a depiction of him. Azkaellon has shoulder length dark hair. Funny, I would think of him as stereotypical blonde? Raldoron has been mentioned in other Horus Heresy work as being considered one of the most deadly captains of the legions. I've seen his name used in the same context as Sigismund, Sevetar, Alojos, Lucius, Khârn, and others. I would certainly like to know more about him. Is there more fluff behind him other than what is found in Fear to Tread? I like how these two Blood Angels leaders contrast each other and have some sort of rivalry going on. It reminds me a little bit of Elias vs. Barnes in the movie Platoon. I prefer Raldoron's leadership style but I highly respect the hardass position Azkaellon has to take in looking out for what is best for the Primarch and the legion. That is not a light burden. He sacrifices much of himself in that duty. How could James Swallows do such a good job in Fear to Tread but write a complete joke in the Blood Angels First Omnibus, and a so-so second omnibus!?!? Lastly here is to hoping Forgeworld releases these two Blood Angel legends when they finally do Sanguinius. Also it wouldn't be right to not include Amit as well. I'm quite fond of Amit too. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/322354-azkaellon-raldoron/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenith Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 How could James Swallows do such a good job in Fear to Tread but write a complete joke in the Blood Angels First Omnibus, and a so-so second omnibus!?!? The Heresy plotlines are decided by author meetings well in advance, so he would have floated ideas and had them shot down, or reigned in. This doesnt sit well with some authors, who feel restricted, which is why you see some with only one HH book to their name. Writing his own novel series, I imagine he would discuss with a couple from the IP team alone, then go and write, with few others in the story building process. To be fair, he does go for an epic storyline, and tries, but just makes the protagonists come out as a bit dumb. I guess you could write this off as superstitiousness, and willing to believe in things without hard facts due to their faith and love of the Emperor and Sanguinius. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/322354-azkaellon-raldoron/#findComment-4392929 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 I am so excited for these two. And Amit. Really hoping they get some sick rules come book 8! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/322354-azkaellon-raldoron/#findComment-4392945 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sentinalsam87 Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 I am so excited for these two. And Amit. Really hoping they get some sick rules come book 8! I love Amit. I play Flesh Tearers in 40k. But I've been building a 30k Blood Angels force. Amit is gonna be my praetor. Equipping him with a Heavy Chainsword and an Iron halo (cause he's gotta have a 4++ to survive getting bitch slapped by Sangiunius). I may do Azkaellon if I bring in some Sangiunary Guard. Don't see room for Raldoran though. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/322354-azkaellon-raldoron/#findComment-4393249 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHelion Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 The thing from FW about how Paragon Blades can be chainswords is so convenient for an Amit build. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/322354-azkaellon-raldoron/#findComment-4393311 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damon Nightman Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 I am so excited for these two. And Amit. Really hoping they get some sick rules come book 8! I love Amit. I play Flesh Tearers in 40k. But I've been building a 30k Blood Angels force. Amit is gonna be my praetor. Equipping him with a Heavy Chainsword and an Iron halo (cause he's gotta have a 4++ to survive getting bitch slapped by Sangiunius). I may do Azkaellon if I bring in some Sangiunary Guard. Don't see room for Raldoran though. Was he really slapped by sanguinius at some point? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/322354-azkaellon-raldoron/#findComment-4393313 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bjorn Firewalker Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 Was he really slapped by sanguinius at some point? According to his Lexicanum article: Amit and the Fifth accompanied the rest of the Blood Angels Legion in their campaign in the Signus Cluster. After rescuing Squad Cassiel on Holst from strange hostiles, Amit began to have concerns that the Blood Angels had been lead into a trap. Having been aware that Raldoron's adjutant, Mkani Kano, had been seeking out his former brothers in the Librarius, Amit approached the former Librarian and offered to help him. After the Red Tear had crashed on Signus Prime and the Dark Page under Chaplain Tanus Kreed of the Word Bearers fled, Sanguinius called a meeting of the Council of Angels, Amit finally spoke what he had feared: Warmaster Horus Lupercal had lead the Blood Angels into a trap. The words had barely left his lips when Sanguinius STRUCK AMIT IN THE CHEST with the pommel of his sword and demanded Amit recant his statement. Emphasis mine. The article cites 'Fear to Tread' as its source. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/322354-azkaellon-raldoron/#findComment-4393326 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkangilos Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 Yeah, Sanguinius was even about to kill him, and he was like, "IT DOESNT CHANGE THE TRUTH!" Paraphrased. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/322354-azkaellon-raldoron/#findComment-4393328 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Antodeniel Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 I am so excited for these two. And Amit. Really hoping they get some sick rules come book 8! I love Amit. I play Flesh Tearers in 40k. But I've been building a 30k Blood Angels force. Amit is gonna be my praetor. Equipping him with a Heavy Chainsword and an Iron halo (cause he's gotta have a 4++ to survive getting bitch slapped by Sangiunius). I may do Azkaellon if I bring in some Sangiunary Guard. Don't see room for Raldoran though. Was he really slapped by sanguinius at some point? Yes, and Sanguinius nearly killed him. (It is ironic to consider that, if Sanguinius had follow Nassir Advices, the Blood Angels may not have fall to the Black Rage/Red Thirst on Signus, and maybe Sanguinius and the Emperor may be still alive by now....) Nassir is one of the most Badass character of the Blood Angels legion. => Nassir was ready to defend the Librarian at the Nikaea Council, and it was Sanguinius who decided that he should wait outside, fearing that Nassir would have arguing on Egal foot with the emperor about the matter. (Amit defended the Librarian point of view, and the use of psychic powers.) => Nassir was First in the Blood Angels Legion to reveal that the Signus Campaign was a trap and that Horus had betrayed them. In answers, Sanguinius, Blind to the true, nearly killed Amit. But, even facing death by HIS PRIMARCH hands, Nassir stayed true to his words. ("He ordered Amit to recant, for he would cut his armour from him and mark him for punishment. The willful Captain would not, for in his hearts he knew that he spoke the truth." As it is said in the wiki. Personally, i think that everyone will agree about the fact that Amit have some "heavy balls" to stand against his Primarch point of view publicly.) => Nassir was the Only Blood Angels to stand against Guilliman Edicts of the Second Founding. (While Azkaellon, Radolron and all the others captains acted as true coward, to weak to choose a decision of their own Legion.) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/322354-azkaellon-raldoron/#findComment-4393329 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damon Nightman Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 That's awesome! I hope sanguinius apologized at some point.... I don't think that Guilimans ideas were bad for the space marines per say, I get where he was coming from. I wouldn't call them cowards just because they obeyed him. sanguinius was just killed and they didn't want to start another civil war over it right? I mean I think Amit is cool for speaking his mind, but I wouldn't call the others cowards because they sided with Guilimans codex stuff.... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/322354-azkaellon-raldoron/#findComment-4393333 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkangilos Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 We don't actually know if he stood against the edicts, just that he hated them. You can go with something and complain at the same time. I have a feeling none of the blood Angels wanted it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/322354-azkaellon-raldoron/#findComment-4393335 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sentinalsam87 Posted May 14, 2016 Share Posted May 14, 2016 In the Flesh Tearers book the Amit stories constantly reflect back to his anger at the division of the Legion. He calls Azkaellon weak for accepting Guilleman's decree. In one of his his missives Amit compares Guilleman to Horus. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/322354-azkaellon-raldoron/#findComment-4394587 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkangilos Posted May 15, 2016 Share Posted May 15, 2016 Again, that does not say he stood against it. It just shows he hates it. There are many that hate the president of the US and his that do not stand against it. There are many times I hate the decisions of my leadership, but I don't stand against them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/322354-azkaellon-raldoron/#findComment-4394711 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHelion Posted May 15, 2016 Share Posted May 15, 2016 I'd also say that comparing Guilliman to Horus is a bad thing, not something we should be admiring Amit for. The man had principles, no arguments there, but that reads like pointless railing against Authority figures for being Authority figures. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/322354-azkaellon-raldoron/#findComment-4394742 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted May 15, 2016 Share Posted May 15, 2016 I think as a legion, the BA were somewhat small (~120,000). It's a mid range size but still probably small enough that they really conducted a lot of operations on a legionary scale. I'd also wager due to how Sanguinius was and the low success rate of our geneseed (or at least the long time it takes to make new BA) resulted in a very close kin-ship of brotherhood amongst the legion. Far more so than perhaps other legions. So the breaking up into chapters was seen by Amit, who's flesh tearers had been known to be a bit different from the rest of the legion but still no less recognised as BA, as something that would just further ostracize his company and most likely many others and see and end to everything Sanguinius brought about in his legion. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/322354-azkaellon-raldoron/#findComment-4394923 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Antodeniel Posted May 15, 2016 Share Posted May 15, 2016 So the breaking up into chapters was seen by Amit, who's flesh tearers had been known to be a bit different from the rest of the legion but still no less recognised as BA, as something that would just further ostracize his company and most likely many others and see and end to everything Sanguinius brought about in his legion. By reading at "Sons of Wrath" it appear that a large part of Amit Company, that became the Flesh Tearers chapter may have been composed of some of the most Trueful, blund, brutal, unstable elements of the Legion. (Much like the way the Red Talons are to the Iron Hands). Also, what appears to be either Guilliman words. Quotes : "Chapter Master, Sire of Flesh Tearers, outcast..." Flesh Tearers tend to follow the path of the true warrior, true to their honor, true to their word, loyal to their blood. (The fighting pit is one constant living tradition that is related to this concept, where one fight the other and trough the fight reveal to each others.) Again, that does not say he stood against it. It just shows he hates it. I quotes from the book : "He and he alone had voiced his discontent, and it had gone unheard, dismissed as the angry words of a grieving son, the ranting of a mad butcher." It appears that Amit litteraly stood against Guilliman choice, and actually voiced is discontent. I'd also say that comparing Guilliman to Horus is a bad thing, not something we should be admiring Amit for. The man had principles, no arguments there, but that reads like pointless railing against Authority figures for being Authority figures. I quotes from the book : "He and he alone had voiced his discontent, and it had gone unheard, dismissed as the angry words of a grieving son, the ranting of a mad butcher. Amit grinned. He was both, and the Universe would do well to remember it" Also, on another part, Amit say that he wasn't prepare to be Chapter Master, that it wasn't his place, yet since it now was his mission he would perform it. So, yes "The man had principles, no arguments there" for Amit is a Warrior leader with strong principles and care little for arguments. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/322354-azkaellon-raldoron/#findComment-4394965 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Red Thirst Posted May 16, 2016 Share Posted May 16, 2016 "He ordered Amit to recant, for he would cut his armour from him and mark him for punishment. The willful Captain would not, for in his hearts he knew that he spoke the truth." As it is said in the wiki. Personally, i think that everyone will agree about the fact that Amit have some "heavy balls" to stand against his Primarch point of view publicly. Not only that but I remember reading somewhere (might have been in the first few HH novels) that refusing an order from your own Primarch is almost unheard of for an Astartes. Its something thats encoded into them at a genetic level through their gene-seed and further re-enforced through hypno-indoctrination. If this is the case, Amit holds such conviction that he defied his very essence as an Astartes to warn his father, even at mortal danger to himself. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/322354-azkaellon-raldoron/#findComment-4395693 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkangilos Posted May 16, 2016 Share Posted May 16, 2016 "He and he alone had voiced his discontent, and it had gone unheard, dismissed as the angry words of a grieving son, the ranting of a mad butcher." Is not standing against... It is voicing discontent... Again, I can say that my squad leader is making a stupid decision, that does NOT mean that I am standing against him. Discontent =/= standing against. Dorn stood against it. He flat out refused it and almost started another civil war over it. Then, he went and killed off a good chunk of his legion. He actively stood against it and defied it. Amit did not stand against it. He said he was unhappy with it, he said it was stupid, BUT HE STILL DID IT. He didn't almost cause a civil war, he didn't refuse. He said he didn't like it. That is NOT standing against. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/322354-azkaellon-raldoron/#findComment-4395777 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Antodeniel Posted May 16, 2016 Share Posted May 16, 2016 "He and he alone had voiced his discontent, and it had gone unheard, dismissed as the angry words of a grieving son, the ranting of a mad butcher." Is not standing against... It is voicing discontent... Again, I can say that my squad leader is making a stupid decision, that does NOT mean that I am standing against him. Discontent =/= standing against. Dorn stood against it. He flat out refused it and almost started another civil war over it. Then, he went and killed off a good chunk of his legion. He actively stood against it and defied it. Amit did not stand against it. He said he was unhappy with it, he said it was stupid, BUT HE STILL DID IT. He didn't almost cause a civil war, he didn't refuse. He said he didn't like it. That is NOT standing against. Just a little precision : Dorn was the Primarch of the Imperial Fist, while on the other side, Amit was just the Captain of the 5th Company of the Blood Angels (Composed of outcasts for the more important part....). I think that the simple fact that Amit voiced his discontent openly and publicly before Guilliman is proof enough. Given the difference of power, i consider that Amit voicing his discontent is egal to Dorn standing effectively against Guilliman vision's. (If Amit had been a Gene-Enhanced Primarch, with a full legion to command, i'm sure that he would have punch Guilliman face...Yet i cannot imagine that the Astartes Amit could have been able to land even a single punch in a Primarch face...) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/322354-azkaellon-raldoron/#findComment-4395944 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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