Dantay VI Posted May 14, 2016 Share Posted May 14, 2016 36dd4af0abf3068ec6b2bf3c02f44003_1 by Danny Taylor, on Flickr Hail & Well met, warrior of Russ!! First of all we would like to thnk you for considering to join the Wolves on this grand adventure & welcome you to the ETL. We sincerely hope that you will find it both interesting & fun. As you haven’t taken part in The ETL with the Wolves before, we thought it would be a good idea to put together a small something, to give you some explanation & tips as to what the ETL is For those who have not been involved in a painting competition, hopefully this will help to give you a flavour of what to expect. If you have done a similar competition in the past, we hope this doesn’t come across as teaching you how to suck eggs So what is the ETL? ETL stands for E Tenebrae Lux. The ETL started out life as a painting challenge put forth by the Dark Angels sub-forum. This has now grown to encompass all the sub-forums into a full on, inter-forum painting competition whereby an individual vows a legal unit (or units) for a particular faction (Space Wolves in our instance) and has to paint them to completion (to your standard, which you alone can decide) within a three month time frame. The faction with the most points painted is crowned the winner earning eternal glory (special signatures, etc) and a year's worth of bragging rights. This is the fifth year of the ETL. The ETL VI Captain Semper has already hinted that basic rules will be the same as last year, but he will not tell anyone which date will be used to mark the start of the ETL. However based on previous events we can surmise that: The challenge will start on either 1st May 2016 and run until 1st August 5pm GMT. In order to participate in the ETL, your first vow must be made within 1 month of the ETL start date By 1st June 5pm. There i no maximum value for your vow, however there is a complete cap at 20,000 points, so split your vows how you wish, lots of small vows or 1 giant vow!! You cannot make a new vow until the old is completed All models to be a legal Codex/Index entry and WYSIWYG Two pictures must be supplied. An unpainted/primed picture at the start of your vow, as evidence that you have not jumped the gun and a picture of your completed vow. If you have made a vow, but are working on your models in stages for example 4 packs of 10 Grey Hunters, but you plan to do them in batches of 20, a before shot of each batch, and then a final picture of all the models completed will suffice What Can I Do? Basically, we have already started but we still have up to a month before we have to vow, so it is a choice between using the month to prep and risk losing painting time or going for it now and hoping it all falls into place for the 1st August. It is up to you to determine the strategy of your great company. But remember to fail one vow is to fail all, so be careful as te lost vows will affect the overall total for the team.. Make your vows manageable: Split the models you want to vow up into small manageable portions and work on them when you can. It takes the pressure off of you and it will give more time to look around and enjoy the creativity around. There is nothing worse than being head down, bum up and painting 24/7, under pressure to hit a deadline and detesting every moment of it. From a team perspective, any uncompleted vows nullify your entire points haul & affect the rest of the Space Wolves overall points total plus that of the Astartes in general, so small achievable vows are much better than one large daunting vow. We would like to achieve as close to 100% completion rate as possible. Paint all your Thunderwolves/ Fenrisian Wolves/Wulfen as one vow, or split into 2, paint all your vehicles in one vow, troops in another. This will hopefully get you into a production line style of painting and will help you to get through a number of models faster than painting them individually. I know. For years I have painted one model at a time and get so discouraged when I see on model don, but a wall of grey plastic/ resin staring at me. Getting into a production line kind ogf groove has really helped keep me motivated and seen me start to work my way through the literal mountain of models sitting in my garage. If you are magnetising, vow the expensive choice! Also, things like hunter-killer missiles count as they are WYSIWYG so add them to your vehicles even if it's via blu-tac! Rumour is that we will be allowed to run Cypher, so raid your bits box for a bolt pistol, plasma pistol and enough parts to make a counts-as Cypher Pace yourself: real life stuff, such as, exams, weddings, births, looking for a job etc can and most likely will come up at some point during the ETL, so leave yourself a little bit of wiggle room. If you start to get hacked off then take a wee break to recharge the batteries before going again. Remember, the ETL is a marathon not a sprint, so there is no need to go hammer & thong in the first week only to tire yourself out. Never be afraid to ask questions: As an engineer the first thing I was taught, is that there is no such thing as a stupid question. The Space Wolves forum is one of the friendliest on here & if you are struggling with something or are unsure about what can go into a vow etc.. Ask, because there will always be someone out there willing to help you. We are a Team: One of the best parts of the ETL is the melting pot of modellers & painters coming together. Not sure how to paint something? Put it out there. Saw someone use a new technique? Ask how it was done. Want to share something you have learned? Share it. There may be some Silver Wolves amongst us, but we are never too old to learn & we like new tricks Have fun: Above all this is the most important thing to do. We want this to be really enjoyable for you & something we hope you will want to take part in year after year So lets take up our brushes & like the Wolves which came before us, relish the challenge ahead. For Russ & the AllFather. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/322393-etl-v-tips-master-thread/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dantay VI Posted May 14, 2016 Author Share Posted May 14, 2016 Okay, back again. Anyway, you may have heard some mentions of an Outpost while you have been looking around the forums. So, what is the Outpost? Each faction will have its own dedicated thread called the “Outpost”. The Outposts are situated in all the relevant Forums and serve two purposes: The official and the unofficial. The official purpose of an ETL Strategium is for participants to submit their vows and for Captain Semper to post the list of the Wolves participating (at least in our forum). Beside each persons name will be a link, which shows your vows, their points’ total and their status.Captain Semper will also be posting weekly updates that will help everybody to monitor the overall progress of the members of their forum and progress of the event as a whole. The unofficial purpose is to serve as a place for participants to encourage each other, discuss developments, devise strategies and even for espionage! I hope this helps to answer a question for you & if you have any queries… Well you know the drill. Thanks Danny Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/322393-etl-v-tips-master-thread/#findComment-4394300 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dantay VI Posted May 14, 2016 Author Share Posted May 14, 2016 The question of what can be vowed has been coming up a lot recently, In fact you brought it up this eveningso I wanted to drop you a quick update to make sure that you are aware of what you can vow in the ETL. Basically when you make a vow for the Space Wolves faction, you are allowed to vow: Any legal unit from Codex Space Wolves Any legal unit from a Space Wolves supplement Any SPACE WOLF unit from Imperial Armour 11 Doom of Mymeara, units from other factions are not allowed to be vowed, so no Guard units as allies Any vehicle from Imperial Armour volume 2 second Edition, which is specifically marked as being allowed to be used by the Space Wolves Space Wolf Contemptor dreadnaught from Imperial Armour Apocalypse. Imperial Knights Cypher. Fortifications Titans & Thunderhawks If it is NOT in this list then you cannot vow it. If you are unsure then please get in touch with either myself, Wolf Lord Kieran or Rune_priest_Rhapsody who are our Space Wolves moderators and we will help you to get the answers you are looking for. Thanks Danny Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/322393-etl-v-tips-master-thread/#findComment-4394302 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dantay VI Posted May 14, 2016 Author Share Posted May 14, 2016 A few guys have of you have come back with queries, and with that in mind I have written up a 2 part tutorial on creating, uploading & posting pictures using the B&C gallery. Rather than make a huge message posting the step-by-step, I have made them into topics and by clicking on the link below, you can access them. I have also included a few other links, for things such as making fur, making cloaks etc. I hope you find this useful. If I have missed anything, let me know and I can add it in, as I am hoping that over time we can build up a small list and produce a resource guide which can be expanded upon. If you also have your own tutorials and the like which you feel could be useful to the Wolves then by all means share them too. I have not included painting tutorials yet, as painting is very subjective and there are a myriad of techniques and paints out there. Thanks Danny Step by step: Creating a gallery & uploading images to B&C http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/321601-step-by-step-creating-a-gallery-uploading-pictures/ Step by step: Posting images from your B&C gallery http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/321602-adding-pictures-to-posts/ Sculpting fur & pelts: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28CjGEAfcRg Using plasticard for banners, cloaks & creating fur, by Argyle. http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304500-cloaks-banners-and-fur-oh-my/ Making cloaks from tissue: http://www.bolterand...de-from-tissue/ A quick note, I have tried this and found tissue too delicate for me and have used paper towels instead Modelling 2 handed weapons: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/229781-modelling-two-handed-weapons/ Note, you can drill out and mount an axe or hammer head on the rod used in the tutorial (example is a sword) Armour detailing using molds: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/258828-greenstuff-armour-detail-techniques/ Making Green stuff runes: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/162088-modelling-gs-runes/ Magnetising vehicles: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lltk3XCFJ_c https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmORuogdqow Quick and easy, gore n blood: Pinning and posing Space Marines: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314132-space-marine-pinning-posing-green-stuff-video-tutorial/ Green stuff chains for vehicles: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/188293-greenstuffing-chains/ Reposing Knight legs: http://www.bolterand...ght-titan-legs/ Making Magna-Melta relic predator: http://www.bolterand...configurations/ Making a relic plasma Predator: http://www.bolterand...er-plasma-pred/ Sculpting greenstuff cloaks: http://www.bolterand...enstuff-cloaks/ Liquid greenstuff: http://loserstudio.blogspot.co.uk/2011/10/liquid-green-stuff-review.html#more Magnetising a Knight Weathering tanks, muddying up with sand : http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228893-how-to-weather-tanks-hd-video-tutorial/ Have Fun Danny Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/322393-etl-v-tips-master-thread/#findComment-4394305 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dantay VI Posted May 14, 2016 Author Share Posted May 14, 2016 I know we are all at different places in our hobbying journey, some are amazing builders and others amazing painters, then there are those of us, who fall somewhere in between. I am not going to try and lecture you or teach you how to paint. Like I said in the modelling section, painting Space Wolves is very subjective & we all have our own recipes and colours which we like to use. For example a lot of my Space Wolves are now becoming Mechanicus Standard Grey rather than The Fang! For me there is so much more to paint than the armour, so this guide is more hints, tips for getting going and painting all the accessory parts, like plasma glow, fur, lenses, skin etc. I really hope these help you out. As most people do not have airbrushes, I have concentrated mainly on using brushes only, but if folks want airbrush stuff I will see what I can find. Let me know what you find useful or useless and let s see if we can build up a great repository for the Fang Thanks Danny Joey berry Painting do’s & dont’s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmUm09zZ11Q Keeping motivated https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjmxYyAso_U Tabletop Minions Making a wet palette: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96mjmqWTPfM Preparing to paint https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10vmneuWXlg From MWG: Quick tips Thinning paints https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EogxYu8dgzY Loading brushes & cleaning https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtiQPAhU20c Eyes https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gf6DNJU6Ceg Glowing eyes https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aeu7t2Jqc3k Jump pack engine glow https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2bAFM4HwAKs Blood spatter https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CS0wSVRMgHI Leather https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RuunLBVBdKc Scars https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtiQPAhU20c Gore https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbHgbPCxnQA Highlighting gold https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmzQkVtSY1k Bronze https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDf43Bj43OE&list=PLVCuaiNKjyLt9eaZNGUgL6wyBSqRSFJ86&index=120 Highlighting zenithal style https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_HznA3E0No Metallic/crystalline blades https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXGf7EFUViw&index=96&list=PLVCuaiNKjyLt9eaZNGUgL6wyBSqRSFJ86 OSL part 1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BgPpTZOKoU4 Lightning claw, ice blue blades. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9a416z971mA Plasma pistol Glowing gun barrels Chipped paint https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-KxkiFz5_M&index=5&list=PLliZQodsai-j4qZUqMUdrFLbeAEYl-20h Lester Bursley: Quick faces https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ac1oLYiyi8 GW: Power & force weapons https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7e4_-oRMtI&index=68&list=PL5596jBmx306UD8wYmAQck71U8x12oVze Pale skin https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XkMZKzfBWL4&list=PL5596jBmx306UD8wYmAQck71U8x12oVze&index=71 Dark skin tone https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQOhGm1uA2s&index=12&list=PLEaPE4sLDA7sgk7Tii5OZLsoFttP4dGdX Chipping and scratching https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MbQMwnjqik&index=80&list=PL5596jBmx306UD8wYmAQck71U8x12oVze Marble effect https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0pGumGvczc&index=79&list=PL5596jBmx306UD8wYmAQck71U8x12oVze Stubble & beards https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7GuGbc0K7o Painting fur https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EIKHXgymJY Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/322393-etl-v-tips-master-thread/#findComment-4394306 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dantay VI Posted May 14, 2016 Author Share Posted May 14, 2016 Bases are what make the model really stand out. They can help tell a story. In their own way they are as important as the model itself. I am basing mine around a dusty desert type scheme in neutral colours so they can match most battlefields, however I really make it look like they are on Prospero! What story are you trying to tell with your models and where has war taken them? Below are a series of videos from various modellers. They will display different styles and techniques on how to do awesome bases, from the very simple to the highly technical. There are many more videos out there from the likes of doctor faust and nextlevelpainting. I hope you enjoy and they help stir your imagination. Thanks Danny Awaken Realms: Swamp base: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0G0VrDAlz34 Buypainted: Dreadnaught base https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHgg73Lt3do&list=PL4sEryds4XKU4wXX1rMj1J5PVQcfqBaid Thunder wolf bases https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ka6jNwNpjT4&index=2&list=PL4sEryds4XKU4wXX1rMj1J5PVQcfqBaid Puddle bases https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjKx08dpkzo&list=PL4sEryds4XKU4wXX1rMj1J5PVQcfqBaid&index=3 Dry mud bases https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VqSqP-Gl34Y&list=PL4sEryds4XKU4wXX1rMj1J5PVQcfqBaid&index=4 7 minute cork basing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=repX5lKQQpU&index=5&list=PL4sEryds4XKU4wXX1rMj1J5PVQcfqBaid Rocky desert https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8rWmgBWsA4&index=6&list=PL4sEryds4XKU4wXX1rMj1J5PVQcfqBaid Snow base https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zsOTFMDVh0g&index=8&list=PL4sEryds4XKU4wXX1rMj1J5PVQcfqBaid Flying base with ruins https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHoFCim03iI&list=PL4sEryds4XKU4wXX1rMj1J5PVQcfqBaid&index=12 GW: Snow base https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v355VB_WrZs Volcanic base by GW https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uH5C6_TxPr8 Urban base by GW https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdLETvgf1DM Swamp base https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcPIG0TUeTo miniGIRL: Snow base https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAvE8WfzjMs&list=PL8GYlw_gIM_E2VSvvhZ0ZOGtVO7czobGA&index=2 Volcanic base (really unique, simple and cool way to base lava) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqBTMvL8lv8&index=3&list=PL8GYlw_gIM_E2VSvvhZ0ZOGtVO7czobGA Explosions on bases https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJ_HfT0OP8o&index=6&list=PL8GYlw_gIM_E2VSvvhZ0ZOGtVO7czobGA Molds and textures for bases https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3neBiJ9tlQ&list=PL8GYlw_gIM_E2VSvvhZ0ZOGtVO7czobGA&index=9 Cheap and easy turf for basing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sABZO8AGk0 Quick & easy liquid effects! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4oN__0v0dLs Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/322393-etl-v-tips-master-thread/#findComment-4394308 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dantay VI Posted May 14, 2016 Author Share Posted May 14, 2016 So the hard work has been done. exhausted_1 by Danny Taylor, on Flickr The blood the sweat, the tears, the cursing and promises of never doing THAT again!! But now I have an awesome model and I want to show it off to the world. triumph by Danny Taylor, on Flickr After all, breathing life into a model miniature is a great achievement. And now comes the moment of glory. The yearbook photograph, showcasing our hard work. It will be Magnificent!! huh by Danny Taylor, on Flickr Whaa….?? That looks nothing like what I am holding in my hand. Maybe if I tilt my head and squint a little? images_1 by Danny Taylor, on Flickr BUM!! Aright. So we have all been there. Slogged our guts out and the picture does not do the model justice. What are we to do? Over the past few evenings I have been pondering this question and decided to try and do some research. We all have our preferred methods of taking pictures, from using our phone or tablet, to a super expensive DSL camera. Some photographers just use a background and others use a light-box. I hope that what I have managed to cobble together will help you with getting the photos you want for your model miniatures, so that you can showcase them in all their glory. I have also thrown in some tutorials on how to make your own lightbox too. It has been fun to work on these, going from modelling, painting basing and now pictures. I also hope that you have managed to get something from these little tip bits. As I have said in previous ones, I would appreciate any feedback, such as if something isn’t right or if there are some things which have been missed, that you would like to see. After all, this is hopefully just a start point and we can build a great repository (phew, glad I spelt that right) from which Wolves collectors can draw from. Thanks for making your way through my ramblings. Danny Taking Photos https://ironsleet.com/2015/03/14/photographing-miniatures-with-idevice-the-definitive-guide/ http://www.blacklibrary.com/Downloads/Product/PDF/white%20dwarf/WD_How_to_Photograph_Miniatures.pdf http://massivevoodoo.blogspot.co.uk/2010/05/photo-backgrounds.html http://massivevoodoo.blogspot.co.uk/2013/09/miniature-photography-part-2-how-do-i.html http://massivevoodoo.blogspot.co.uk/2013/09/miniature-photography-part-2-how-do-i.html http://www.miniwargaming.com/content/6rtcOGmmu7DU http://www.beastsofwar.com/groups/photography/forum/topic/how-to-take-better-photos-of-miniatures/ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xk14rSZbUTY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yipi-1_2_TE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ggf6Il2eY70 Light boxes https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OyxzC5kqbyw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHcrmQrp7u8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1bAh193Iwc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6fnHEvLyAE Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/322393-etl-v-tips-master-thread/#findComment-4394315 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sviar Posted May 14, 2016 Share Posted May 14, 2016 Thanks Dantay, very helpful advices . I'll see if I have the time to construct a lightbox for the ETL to take pictures of my Imperial Guard . Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/322393-etl-v-tips-master-thread/#findComment-4394364 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaveriK Posted May 14, 2016 Share Posted May 14, 2016 I have this but I've yet to use it... http://orangemonkie.com/product/foldio1/ product review via YouTube https://youtu.be/6MDssBqkLRs Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/322393-etl-v-tips-master-thread/#findComment-4394392 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dantay VI Posted May 14, 2016 Author Share Posted May 14, 2016 Cool, I'll add it to the lightbox section above :tu: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/322393-etl-v-tips-master-thread/#findComment-4394398 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune_Priest_Rhapsody Posted May 15, 2016 Share Posted May 15, 2016 ++I merged all of your immensely helpful threads into one, Dantay!! Thank you for your very dedicated and hard work!!++ End of Line Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/322393-etl-v-tips-master-thread/#findComment-4394644 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dantay VI Posted May 15, 2016 Author Share Posted May 15, 2016 I ha linked all of these to one place. In the master thread and also in the Strategium itself. I'll go back & sort out the links. Manually as I am stuck at work using Internet Explorer, which will not allow me to copy/paste stuff over. :( Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/322393-etl-v-tips-master-thread/#findComment-4394753 Share on other sites More sharing options...
codyrstuart Posted May 26, 2016 Share Posted May 26, 2016 As you requested Danny. To the new guys, don't be scared to try new things. If I painted this model 8 months ago, it wouldn't look anything like it does. While I still need to learn highlighting and blending, this community has pushed me to try new techniques and become a better painter. http://i1376.photobucket.com/albums/ah7/codyrstuart/20160525_221810_zpsm2phw0uq.jpg Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/322393-etl-v-tips-master-thread/#findComment-4405131 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dantay VI Posted June 9, 2016 Author Share Posted June 9, 2016 Okay, so I have been experimenting with my airbrush. I got it at Christmas and it was a super cheap set, consisting of compressor with moisture trap, hose and 2 dual action airbrush guns. Got to say it is a lot of fun!! Anyway before starting I did a fair amount of research and while a lot of folks do how to videos, a lot do not go into much detail on pressures etc. For those starting out like me, I hope that some of this proves useful. This goes from what to buy through to some basic and intermediate techniques If anyone has any other tutorials or videos which might be useful, or you feel I have missed anything let me know, so I can add it to the repository of knowledge Thanks for reading and let me know what you think. Wargamers consortium: https://www.youtube.com/user/WGConsortium Getting started and basic techniques https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zw9qdL_r5xQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TljCSoJyTJU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3pxO2is1K4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEhm9LApRfk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQE1yTwjaGY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4mYrl-nzio https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUnuDsHwrl8 Pre & post shade a Space Wolves rhino https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mex6x1Xckr0 Intermediate, getting started with the airbrush https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcIzOfP6X8Q https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bLNceANH8E https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2tozuxH1GU Painting a Wolf Priest terminator https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YgJAZ3Wx-nI Buypainted: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsVtZ8SRClYf4tPzy8HjNtA Airbrush painting Space Wolves https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WayXmdyRI9Y&list=PL4sEryds4XKVTKRPEC-hat2crX3B9zjB3 Lester Bursley: https://www.youtube.com/user/awesomepaintjob 13th Company Space Wolf https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AImKoB10ans Awaken Realms: https://www.youtube.com/user/awakenrealms Painting a Storm Fang https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ScBOKy8UnYs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcoM-tQiDOI Hand painting a space wolf in 30K colours (Hand painted) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JN5WjdtKTZ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/322393-etl-v-tips-master-thread/#findComment-4415842 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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