Death from the Skies?

[Charlo]

Going off the rules in Angels of Death it would seem that Iron Hands vehicles do indeed benefit from chapter tactics.

[Remtek]

Seems like the formation with 3x Storm Ravens 30 tacticals got buffed. Comes in turn one on a 2+ with re-roll and you can use the new attack patterns. Don't have the book yet, but might be viable. 

[Mirthless]

meh... still cant use Stormtalons or Stormhawks. Why GW? 

[Quixus]

meh... still cant use Stormtalons or Stormhawks. Why GW? 

Why not? AFAIK the book has formations that contain nothing but those flyers. So you can fiueld them. Unfortunately they would be SM and not BA flyers.

[Charlo]

Hmm so reading the book and my conclusions so far:

 

Flyer wing rules and updated rules in general: Awesome. Nice update to flyers.

 

The Dog-Fight Phase: Truly awful. Three games of rock paper scissors consulting different tables each time to maybe have a flyer in reserve shot down before a game turn.... With its passengers destroyed.... At least it can only happen once per game turn and then there is a chance it won't.

 

If the enemy brings Fighters our Ravens are just.... Kaput.

[NTaW]

Seems like the formation with 3x Storm Ravens 30 tacticals got buffed. Comes in turn one on a 2+ with re-roll and you can use the new attack patterns. Don't have the book yet, but might be viable. 

 

Absolutely. If/when this gets rolled into the core rulebook and the three Stormraven Formation survives I'll be nipping up a third. Only part that nags me is that because they belong to that Formation they can't roll with the Air Superiority Detachment and get +/-2 Reserves and ObSec. Ah well!

 

 

Hmm so reading the book and my conclusions so far:

 

Flyer wing rules and updated rules in general: Awesome. Nice update to flyers.

 

The Dog-Fight Phase: Truly awful. Three games of rock paper scissors consulting different tables each time to maybe have a flyer in reserve shot down before a game turn.... With its passengers destroyed.... At least it can only happen once per game turn and then there is a chance it won't.

 

If the enemy brings Fighters our Ravens are just.... Kaput.

 

I like the dogfight phase but totally see where you're coming from. Fighter don't necessarily equal 'kaput' though, it just gives them a really good chance at getting things done if it gets to the attack sub-phase. A couple decent/lucky dice choices and you've got the drop on their Fighter. 

 

Just re-reading and noticing that Fliers can come in from Reserve facing any direction which is a sweet boon. I assume you still measure distances from your board edge...?

[dakkamasta]

I think this book can actually be quite good for BA. We lost skyfire on the raven, but we have access to the mighty stormhawk interceptor. I think this plane is really underrated, for slightly more points over a stormtalon you get the same weapony (despite being less accurate on the ground) with a 2-shot lascannon on top, with front AV 12 and can reroll jink saves. This thing has a crazy amount of firepower for such a cheap flyer and before someone mentions the 2 hull points, that's not such a big deal when you have a 4+ rerollable save.

 

By taking 2 you can bring them in an air superiority detachment and get a wing leader plus reserve buffs with air superiority, and can run alongside any BA list (just paint them BA colours, it's still very fluffy alongside our army in my opinion).

 

These things will do anti-air far better than our ravens ever could, which allows our ravens to do what they've always meant to do even by the fluff, transport reinforcements to the battle whilst providing air to ground fire support.

 

Don't forget that 2 of these flyers with skyhammer missiles cost only 6 meltabombs more than a raven with hurricane bolters. For that price you get 2 flyers, a wing leader, greatly increased firepower, skyfire, higher chance of success in dogfights, rerolls to jink. Seems like a no brainer to me.

[Slothysaur]

I have 2 stormhawks and approve the above message.

[Quixus]

It is a shame that they are technically not BA vehicles. If I wanted allied flyers I could put imperial navy units in my army.

[LutherMax]

I think this book can actually be quite good for BA. We lost skyfire on the raven, but we have access to the mighty stormhawk interceptor. I think this plane is really underrated, for slightly more points over a stormtalon you get the same weapony (despite being less accurate on the ground) with a 2-shot lascannon on top, with front AV 12 and can reroll jink saves. This thing has a crazy amount of firepower for such a cheap flyer and before someone mentions the 2 hull points, that's not such a big deal when you have a 4+ rerollable save.

 

By taking 2 you can bring them in an air superiority detachment and get a wing leader plus reserve buffs with air superiority, and can run alongside any BA list (just paint them BA colours, it's still very fluffy alongside our army in my opinion).

 

These things will do anti-air far better than our ravens ever could, which allows our ravens to do what they've always meant to do even by the fluff, transport reinforcements to the battle whilst providing air to ground fire support.

 

Don't forget that 2 of these flyers with skyhammer missiles cost only 6 meltabombs more than a raven with hurricane bolters. For that price you get 2 flyers, a wing leader, greatly increased firepower, skyfire, higher chance of success in dogfights, rerolls to jink. Seems like a no brainer to me.

 

I am liking the sound of this... I like the model too, and see how good they look in red...

 

http://www.themightybrush.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/Blood-Angels-Stormhawk.jpg

[Slothysaur]

I like that we can take them without any hq/troop taxes, makes it more believable (in my skewed perception) that they are ours and not Codex flyers. Plus you can sprinkle some Iron Hands cheese on top for the finishing touch.

[dakkamasta]

It is a shame that they are technically not BA vehicles. If I wanted allied flyers I could put imperial navy units in my army.

 

This hobby is all about imagination my friend. It's a space marine vehicle for codex chapters, BA are a codex chapter, fluffwise there is no reason we shouldn't use these. To add to this point, in the original Stormwing formation dataslate (before it was in the codex) there was a fluff segment on how BA used the Stormwing in their battles, despite the fact that stormtalons weren't in our codex. 

[Indefragable]

Seems like the formation with 3x Storm Ravens 30 tacticals got buffed. Comes in turn one on a 2+ with re-roll and you can use the new attack patterns. Don't have the book yet, but might be viable. 

 

I am experimenting with the following:

 

2000pts

 

Detachment One: 

 

Angel's Fury Spearhead 1020pts

Tactical Marines x 10

 

Tactical Marines x 10

 

Tactical Marines x 10

 

Stormraven

--TL Multi-Melta

--TL Assault Cannon

 

Stormraven

--TL Multi-Melta

--TL Assault Cannon

 

Stormraven

--TL Multi-Melta

--TL Assault Cannon

 

Detachment Two:

 

Baal Strike Force 980pts

 

HQ:

Librarian Dreadnought

--ML2

--Power Fist w/ Storm Bolter

 

TROOPS:

Cassor the Damned

 

Scouts x 10

--Bolt Pistol/CCW x 10

 

ELITES:

Furioso Dreadnought

--Blood Talon/Storm Bolter

--Blood Talon/Heavy Flamer

 

Death Company x 5

--Jump Packs

--Power Fist x 1

--Bolter x 1

 

Death Company x 5

--Jump Packs

--Power Fist x 1

--Bolter x 1

 

Death Company x 5

--Jump Packs

--Power Fist x 1

--Bolter x 1

 

CONCEPT: 

According to my club's understanding, unless the enemy brings 3x Interceptors, The 3x SR's stand a good chance of gaining Air Superiority, thus granting themselves +1 to Reserves, ergo coming in on a re-rollable 2+ Turn 1.

 

They come in and burn down targets of opportunity/high threat. I think one of the Formations in the DftS books gives +1BS or Tank Hunters or something as well? Gravy.

 

The 3x Dreads (all with +2A ....thanks GW!) ride in the ravens. Now, depending on battlefield conditions, you make use of the Skies of Fury rule and drop everyone off. With Magna-Grapples, the Furiosos ignore terrain and thus "can't fail" SoF unless they land on something impassable or off the board. 

 

Scouts either bunker down out of sight or Infiltrate/move as close to the enemy as possible to set up Turn 2 Charge or act as meatshields. 

 

Turn 2: Skies of Fury or drop into Hover and let Dreads/Tacticals assault whatever is in range. DC MSU (coming in on a 2+ with Air Superiority, hopefully) DS within 12" of 2x Tactical Sgts and attack stuff as well.

 

That's the theory. 

 

Plenty can go wrong with Reserves, low model count, lack of long-range shooting, etc...

[LutherMax]

Sounds pretty solid / fun to me!

[Indefragable]

Out of principal I will not be getting the Stormhawk Interceptor until BA gets some legit love from GW. That's just me. I, for one, dislike how "just use allies" has become a crutch. That is the way to the dark side, with all the cheesiest super friends tournament lists that people tend to gripe about.  I strive to use all units from the same Codex as much as humanly possible for that reason, even though it obviously handicaps me at times. Call me a purist, i guess. Again, I emphasize that is all just, like, my opinion, man. 

 

Other thoughts:

-I would really like to think that a Baal Pattern Stormtalon/Stormhawk/Stormangel is on the way, but that does not help us at this moment

-I would also REALLY love to think that BA get a "Redwing" type of Faction trait down the line, but again that does not help us at this moment

-I have not actually played the Dogfight phase, so I can't knock it too much, but I think the ideas could be used but simplified. Instead of crazy charts, have the Wing Leader of each player's side take an Initiative test against each other or something. Yes that skews towards Eldar/Dark Eldar whose flyers need no further buffs, but you get the idea. Something simple and easy to grasp

 

While the verdict is out on how well BA can use DftS, my initial thoughts are that it hurts us more than it helps us...unless you just use Allies, but going back to my first point, that is the medicine for everything right now so.....it is sort of a null effect. To re-state what I commented in the "Can BA still be competitive" thread, I think our most "competitive" option right now is to start with all forces on the board as much as possible and simply "not play" the Reserves or Flyers game until our fluffy buffs to them come back. 

[Charlo]

Stormangel.

 

I'm listening....

[Indefragable]

Stormangel.

 

I'm listening....

 

Disclaimer: that is totally made up by me, on the spot, with no official backing, rumors of official backing, rumors of rumors or GW hearing about rumors of rumors about such a thing,  and otherwise there are no indications, hints, or whispers-on-the-wind whatsoever of such a BA exclusive flavor named as such coming out whatsoever. If I upset you by implying any such thing, I do apologize: https://youtu.be/lwfuUyTMpVY?t=43s

 

With that out of the way, I was just trying to think of a name that an exclusive BA flyer would have. The Space Wolves have "Stormfang" so I thought, in typical GW fashion, a potential one of ours would probably be called "Stormangel" or something like that. 

 

The real question is, should we get a BA-exclusive Flyer (OF WHICH THERE ARE NOT EVEN ANY HINTS OF RUMORS THAT IS HAPPENING)....what should it do? What role should it fill? What should it be equipped with?

[LutherMax]

Something fast, small and agile. A real dogfighter. I'd be happy with something like the Stormhawk (I think it's awesome). If GW do follow suit and choose to give it something unique for BA I guess it might just be different weapon options and some subtle styling differences. Not sure what the weapons should be – I think the Stormhawk armament is great!

[Indefragable]

I would like to see BA have exceptional pilots (BS5, Vector Dancer, 3+ re-rollable jink or something) to showcase how often we are in the skies. 

 

Beyond that, I think something patterned closer to Eldar Flyers (Crimson Hunter, etc...) would make sense and provide some differentiation from Stormfang, Nephilim, etc...

 

Maybe a Space-Marine-ified Hemlock with a Librarian Pilot? 

 

Worst case scenario I would like to see it patterned off of the Nephilim Jetfighter from the Dark Angels: a Fighter/Interceptor that also has Strafing Run, making it BS4 against everything

 

Other ideas:

-Has Deep Strike....so rather than Flying on from a board edge it shows up out of nowhere firing into rear arcs. That would definitely fit the idea of a small, agile, fast Blood Angely-craft

-Roar of Angels: enemy units that are passed over by models with this special rule must take a Leadership test on 4 Dice, keeping the results of the highest 2 rolls. If passed, nothing happens. If failed, the enemy model subtracts 2 from its Initiative, Attacks, and WS profiles. Additionally, these models must re-roll successful To Wound rolls caused to Blood Angels models during Overwatch.

If the enemy unit was shot at by a model with this special rule in the same Turn, they take the Leadership test at -2.