Atia Posted May 16, 2016 Share Posted May 16, 2016 Not home so linky linky http://battlebunnies.blogspot.co.at/2016/05/the-vlka-fenryka-are-not-only-legion.html?m=1 There was another legion at prospero ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/322466-there-was-another-legion-at-prospero/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dantay VI Posted May 16, 2016 Share Posted May 16, 2016 Oh goodie, as if it isn't bad enough that all we hear is "Wolves are crap couldnt do the job at Prospero etc..." Now we are supposed to have gotten help from the SoH? How witless is Alan Bligh determined to make the Space Wolves seem? I can only assume the company were the messengers fo Horus & the change of plans. So how did they get off of Prospero before Russ learned the truth & managed to dodge the Alpha's? If they also had Legio Mortis, why not blow the crap out of the Wolves. At the point I wish they would just not bother with Inferno. :cuss Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/322466-there-was-another-legion-at-prospero/#findComment-4396636 Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronDrake28 Posted May 16, 2016 Share Posted May 16, 2016 I like it, hopefully there's some retributive wolf-on-wolf action. (Or wolf on Sons... Whatever) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/322466-there-was-another-legion-at-prospero/#findComment-4396638 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runefyre Posted May 16, 2016 Share Posted May 16, 2016 Feels a bit like the Wolves are being marginalized a lot lately, and frankly it's kinda frustrating. Though if it's just a small presence of SoH (as Dantay mentioned) I'd be fine with it. I get that the SW's were attacking a legion homeworld, so that's why I've always been fine with SoS and Custodes. But all I hear is "Space Wolves didn't get their butts kicked just 'cause of Magnus's good graces", and now we're probably gonna here even more of that rhetoric. That's why I don't really want the Wolves getting more "help". Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/322466-there-was-another-legion-at-prospero/#findComment-4396641 Share on other sites More sharing options...
helterskelter Posted May 16, 2016 Share Posted May 16, 2016 Funny how they weren't mentioned in 2 novels and anyone talking about prospero afterwards. Not even Magnus, who you thought would've clocked something like that. But hey if the wolves, and sisters of silence and custodes weren't enough, a magical arbitrary number of sons of horus that did nothing sure are. I'd rather someone just say it was Alpharius Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/322466-there-was-another-legion-at-prospero/#findComment-4396646 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dantay VI Posted May 16, 2016 Share Posted May 16, 2016 This was supposed to be a pivotal iconic part of the Heresy and the WOlves major contribution. By watering it down, flinging other legions and legio into the mix it renders it somewhat meaningless except as a moneygrab for some new shiny thing in the works. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/322466-there-was-another-legion-at-prospero/#findComment-4396660 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balthamal Posted May 16, 2016 Share Posted May 16, 2016 Woah enough with the hysteria. The book isn't out. There's no direct quotes. There isn't even a tacky pic of a concept page. Cool your jets boys and girls. And at any rate, I trust AB given the amazing job he's done with the HH so far. If it happens that there were SoH at Prospero I'll roll with it. If the added bonus is that the whole "Wolves are executioners" crap is put firmly into a well deserved grave so much the better TL:DR - Knock it off, as things stand this is less than nothing - no offence Atia ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/322466-there-was-another-legion-at-prospero/#findComment-4396677 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athrawes Posted May 16, 2016 Share Posted May 16, 2016 See, this makes perfect sense to me. In the fluff it has always been clear that Horus changed Russ' orders, telling him to destroy the Thousand sons instead of arresting them. But how did Horus do that? Artotelepathy seems a bit imprecise to change orders of that magnitude. In that light, it makes perfect sense that Horus sent some of his Legionaries, to act as the Warmaster's emissaries to bring his new orders to Russ. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/322466-there-was-another-legion-at-prospero/#findComment-4396678 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runefyre Posted May 16, 2016 Share Posted May 16, 2016 I'm cool with that, just so long as they don't take away from an already marginalized Space Wolves "victory". The only one that mattered in the Heresy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/322466-there-was-another-legion-at-prospero/#findComment-4396684 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dantay VI Posted May 16, 2016 Share Posted May 16, 2016 Woah enough with the hysteria. The book isn't out. There's no direct quotes. There isn't even a tacky pic of a concept page. Cool your jets boys and girls. And at any rate, I trust AB given the amazing job he's done with the HH so far. If it happens that there were SoH at Prospero I'll roll with it. If the added bonus is that the whole "Wolves are executioners" crap is put firmly into a well deserved grave so much the better TL:DR - Knock it off, as things stand this is less than nothing - no offence Atia Balthamal: The executioners "crap" was put to bed with the Wolf King. so you can stop waving that excuse around. Would be nice for the WOlves to be considered as even average. TL:DR And knock what off? Having an opinion? Why should I blithely just go ah cool its all amazing?!? Athrawes: Yes a squad or demi company tops not a full company and some titans from Legio Mortis. Overkill and strange that Neither the T-Sons or Wolves ever mention them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/322466-there-was-another-legion-at-prospero/#findComment-4396686 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenaur Posted May 16, 2016 Share Posted May 16, 2016 I can see both sides of the argument here but really everyone should just calm down, AB and the rest of the studio have done an amazing job with the Heresy and I'm sure this will have been a well thought out decision if it turns out to be true. SoH may have just been lingering around to make sure the wolves did what was planned for them but really speculation is pointless until we get our hands on the book. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/322466-there-was-another-legion-at-prospero/#findComment-4396690 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balthamal Posted May 16, 2016 Share Posted May 16, 2016 Woah enough with the hysteria. The book isn't out. There's no direct quotes. There isn't even a tacky pic of a concept page. Cool your jets boys and girls. And at any rate, I trust AB given the amazing job he's done with the HH so far. If it happens that there were SoH at Prospero I'll roll with it. If the added bonus is that the whole "Wolves are executioners" crap is put firmly into a well deserved grave so much the better TL:DR - Knock it off, as things stand this is less than nothing - no offence Atia Balthamal: The executioners "crap" was put to bed with the Wolf King. so you can stop waving that excuse around. Would be nice for the WOlves to be considered as even average. TL:DR And knock what off? Having an opinion? Why should I blithely just go ah cool its all amazing?!? Athrawes: Yes a squad or demi company tops not a full company and some titans from Legio Mortis. Overkill and strange that Neither the T-Sons or Wolves ever mention them. It still does the rounds, some people can't let go of a good thing I guess but that's neither here nor there for this issue. You're entitled to have an opinion mate, I've faced down plenty of people on these boards who have tried to say otherwise and will continue to do so. What I would advise however, is that you don't go off the deep end with it saying AB's ideas for the HH are :cuss or that FW are clueless and can't put out something worthwhile when everything up to this point has been anything but. Especially when that's coming from questionable (a term I'm being very generous with) info. I'll reiterate - this "news" is less than nothing right now. It's basically "a guy talked to a guy who talked to a guy" and that last "guy" happens to be the main author, who it should be said, has lobbed out verbal grenades such as "who said there was only one Alpha Legion," In response to: "Sigismund is easily the best loyalist character in terms of rules" AB: "We haven't done Raldoron or Corswain yet" and "we'll see when Tarvitz comes back" It wouldn't be the first time that Alan has had a joke at the fans expense in terms of what he allows to churn the rumour mill. In the end, if it's told in a way that doesn't break the suspension of disbelief, why is it important? Why is it important for one Legion to have a victory? And that applies to all of them really. But that's for the future when the book is released and a proper debate can be had about it (at which time if it does turn out to be true, feel free to fire some rage my way, I'll have earned it) Until such time as it is in print though - this is nothing but a waste of words Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/322466-there-was-another-legion-at-prospero/#findComment-4396716 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atia Posted May 16, 2016 Author Share Posted May 16, 2016 Questionable? If you think so. I won't take offense but please, don't call my infos questionable. Even so more if it's from Alan himself. Btw, Prospero is a whole campaign now. Including the raid on a 1k sons allied Mechanicum World. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/322466-there-was-another-legion-at-prospero/#findComment-4396730 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Hands Fanatic Posted May 16, 2016 Share Posted May 16, 2016 I think one important thing to consider is that perhaps the Emperor wanted some of the VIth Legion to actually survive so they could be useful in the future? If it had just been a straight up Wolves vs Sons fight, who know which side would've won? But what we do know is that whichever Legion claimed victory, they would likely have sustained losses so significant that they would have been themselves have been removed as an effective fighting force. Consider another example of a 'pre-Heresy' Legion vs Legion fight - Isstvan V. Rogal Dorn sent seven Legions to take care of four Legions which had already bled themselves at Isstvan III, and even then victory was far from assured. The Emperor would've been absolutely insane to send a single Legion against the second most powerful psyker in the Galaxy and his own Legion of Astartes, plus an entire planet's worth of Imperial Auxilia on a Legion homeworld, which is likely one of the most heavily defended planets in the Imperium (plus preview seminars for Inferno suggest the Sons had significant help from the Mechanicum). Even with a detachment of Legio Mortis Titans, the Sisters of Silence to help counteract the Sons' sorcery and a force of Custodes, the sides probably aren't even. You don't rock up to a Legion's homeworld with just your own Legion and expect a bloodless victory - the Emperor obviously didn't want the Wolves wiped out in the destruction of the XVth Legion, so of course he gave them help. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/322466-there-was-another-legion-at-prospero/#findComment-4396734 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerichus Posted May 16, 2016 Share Posted May 16, 2016 To take that a bit further, It also could have been to keep an eye to make sure things went to plan while also keeping up the cover of the Warmaster-sanctioned retribution. Without anyone there, how would Horus know if his plan worked? This also would've added a bit of legitimacy to the order. I mean, didn't the emperor send the custodes for the same reason? It would have looked suspect if the Emperor was contributing forces to help the wolves, but the Warmaster didn't. Isn't it also unknown just how big the conflict was? It's likely the Thousand Sons had at least some forces on the other planets in the Prospero system and maybe the Wolves decided to sack a portion of the sub-sector, just to be sure? And wasn't a secondary goal of the Mechanicus to destroy the Akhadine(?) Forge World and it's vassals? It's wholly likely that even if Horus gave a company of Sons and a demi-legio of titans they never even set foot in the Prospero system, let alone Tizca. It doesn't diminish the Wolves effort. Heck, the majority Word Bearers Legion only managed to take out 26 worlds of Ultramar during the entirety of the Heresy, and they have way more dudes than the Wolves did. It's a smart political move by Horus to make sure the puppets dance the way he wants them to, and I personally don't feel like it makes the Wolves seem incompetent or unable. And it may just be a tie in to this whole "Wolf-Cull" thing that's been touted around recently. Don't worry guys, there's no point in getting angry until the book comes out and we see what they do with it. I can understand why you're mad but let's try to take this in a more positive direction. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/322466-there-was-another-legion-at-prospero/#findComment-4396759 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col.hertford Posted May 16, 2016 Share Posted May 16, 2016 Ok, so I was with the battle bunnie Kaelo while Alan was talking to us. The SoH were manipulating the SW and ensuring the Warmasters plan happened. Simple as that. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/322466-there-was-another-legion-at-prospero/#findComment-4396770 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuskRaider Posted May 16, 2016 Share Posted May 16, 2016 I'm Horus. I'm going to dupe a Loyal Legion into wiping out another Loyal Legion... I need to have an insurance plan in place, however. I decide I'm going to send an entire Company of my own Legion (arguably the most power Legion in the background) to make sure the job is done, along with my BFF Titan Legio for good measure. How this doesn't make sense is beyond me, although it seems like anyone will complain if given the chance. If anything, this gives Wolves players even more list possibilities with the inclusion of the XVIth. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/322466-there-was-another-legion-at-prospero/#findComment-4396773 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col.hertford Posted May 16, 2016 Share Posted May 16, 2016 This was supposed to be a pivotal iconic part of the Heresy and the WOlves major contribution. By watering it down, flinging other legions and legio into the mix it renders it somewhat meaningless except as a moneygrab for some new shiny thing in the works. dantay, You say watering down, I say enriching. The wolves of today are not the wolves of 1988 when I started. But to clear it up, the wolves are pivotal, but we are not just talking about the SW versus 1000sons as there is are much larger forces at work including two Titan legions. Space wolves are key, but the hand of the warmaster is evident (in the advisor company). bear in mind this is pre the Eisenstein flight and Horus is still considered completely loyal. Russ is the tool and puppet of Horus. The 1000 sons are very loyal to the point they are considered incorruptable even for marine and must be removed as an obstacle. Also the SW take heavy losses during the fighting. Alan pondered, what if the heresy hadn't happened and the 1000sons became another redacted legion? Like the 2nd and 11th? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/322466-there-was-another-legion-at-prospero/#findComment-4396776 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col.hertford Posted May 16, 2016 Share Posted May 16, 2016 I'm cool with that, just so long as they don't take away from an already marginalized Space Wolves "victory". The only one that mattered in the Heresy. Well originally Talleran was a wolves fight too. With the warp runners, war griffons and ultramarines. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/322466-there-was-another-legion-at-prospero/#findComment-4396777 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col.hertford Posted May 16, 2016 Share Posted May 16, 2016 Feels a bit like the Wolves are being marginalized a lot lately, and frankly it's kinda frustrating. Though if it's just a small presence of SoH (as Dantay mentioned) I'd be fine with it. I get that the SW's were attacking a legion homeworld, so that's why I've always been fine with SoS and Custodes. But all I hear is "Space Wolves didn't get their butts kicked just 'cause of Magnus's good graces", and now we're probably gonna here even more of that rhetoric. That's why I don't really want the Wolves getting more "help". The term used by Alan was a company. So a 100-150 according to book one. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/322466-there-was-another-legion-at-prospero/#findComment-4396781 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted May 16, 2016 Share Posted May 16, 2016 I'm Horus. I'm going to dupe a Loyal Legion into wiping out another Loyal Legion... I need to have an insurance plan in place, however. I decide I'm going to send an entire Company of my own Legion (arguably the most power Legion in the background) to make sure the job is done, along with my BFF Titan Legio for good measure. How this doesn't make sense is beyond me, although it seems like anyone will complain if given the chance. If anything, this gives Wolves players even more list possibilities with the inclusion of the XVIth. This. To me, this is just a super awesome new tid-bit of info that makes us question everything we thought we knew about the Heresy. Fantastic! Alan has been very good at this so far and this could mean literally anything. For the Wolves among you who are getting worried, I wouldn't sweat it. Book 8 is still going to be all about you baby! This is just another small piece to the puzzle :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/322466-there-was-another-legion-at-prospero/#findComment-4396788 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col.hertford Posted May 16, 2016 Share Posted May 16, 2016 I'm Horus. I'm going to dupe a Loyal Legion into wiping out another Loyal Legion... I need to have an insurance plan in place, however. I decide I'm going to send an entire Company of my own Legion (arguably the most power Legion in the background) to make sure the job is done, along with my BFF Titan Legio for good measure. How this doesn't make sense is beyond me, although it seems like anyone will complain if given the chance. If anything, this gives Wolves players even more list possibilities with the inclusion of the XVIth. This. To me, this is just a super awesome new tid-bit of info that makes us question everything we thought we knew about the Heresy. Fantastic! Alan has been very good at this so far and this could mean literally anything. For the Wolves among you who are getting worried, I wouldn't sweat it. Book 8 is still going to be all about you baby! This is just another small piece to the puzzle :) This The studio loves the wolves. The only reason they came last is they want them done RIGHT. There is talk of special units too... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/322466-there-was-another-legion-at-prospero/#findComment-4396794 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted May 16, 2016 Share Posted May 16, 2016 There will indeed be special units. The book is going to have EVERYTHING for the Wolves and 1KSons. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/322466-there-was-another-legion-at-prospero/#findComment-4396797 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col.hertford Posted May 16, 2016 Share Posted May 16, 2016 Well not everything... Certainly not happiness and long life... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/322466-there-was-another-legion-at-prospero/#findComment-4396805 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerichus Posted May 16, 2016 Share Posted May 16, 2016 Well not everything... Certainly not happiness and long life... Bjorn seems pretty long-lived Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/322466-there-was-another-legion-at-prospero/#findComment-4396811 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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