Charlo Posted May 18, 2016 Share Posted May 18, 2016 Because why not eh? I'll Start: Cheaper Assault Marines - Currently overcosted by a lot, but some legions/ RoW make them rather powerful (BA/ NL) so we'll see I suppose Cheaper Breachers - I think these guys may have the option to remove the hardened Armour to lower their cost, it's pretty useless in normal games outside of resisting massed flamers and frag shell quads... Techmarines become independent characters when no servitors are taken - throw a few rad grenades out, extra firepower or tankiness to a squad? Plus they make no sense right now being stuck stranded alone. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/322517-aod-army-list-wish-list/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Loss Posted May 18, 2016 Share Posted May 18, 2016 Other than what you mentioned, I'd really like to see some changes to Destroyers. They're very underwhelming. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/322517-aod-army-list-wish-list/#findComment-4398475 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runefyre Posted May 18, 2016 Share Posted May 18, 2016 Also Medusas in all 3 HS slots, mechanicum can do it (and cheaper at that), so why can't the most elite fighting force in the imperium? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/322517-aod-army-list-wish-list/#findComment-4398490 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balthamal Posted May 18, 2016 Share Posted May 18, 2016 Would be nice to see Scorpius Whirlwinds get the squadron treatment. In fact all the Heavy Support tanks would be good as a squadron however I can't see it happening with Sicarans and it should definitely not happen with Spartans. The rest has been mentioned already but please, Recon Marines, make us spend at least half a second considering them before kicking them to the curb Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/322517-aod-army-list-wish-list/#findComment-4398517 Share on other sites More sharing options...
God-Potato of Mankind Posted May 18, 2016 Share Posted May 18, 2016 Muwhahahah squadroned Spartans would make my World Eaters cackle with glee. I too am in favour of cheaper troops. I run Salamander breachers and while cool they definitely get outnumbered a lot. Making void hardened an option would rock my socks off. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/322517-aod-army-list-wish-list/#findComment-4398576 Share on other sites More sharing options...
helterskelter Posted May 18, 2016 Share Posted May 18, 2016 I actually wouldn't mind all vehicles receiving squadron. It is the heresy after all and you're still paying the points for the vehicles. What would be nice, but probably not ever going to happen would be a buyable "primus" option to change officers from a support officer role to being able to lead the army Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/322517-aod-army-list-wish-list/#findComment-4398583 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted May 18, 2016 Share Posted May 18, 2016 Destroyers need a huge rules buff. A squad of 10 with Jump packs costs more than an Imperial Knight... I think their standard bolt pistols need some sort of special ammo, on top of a points reduction squad-wide. I'd buy some but they are simply a handicap! Make Apothecaries and Tech Marines independent characters. Lower the point cost of assault marines, they are crazy expensive and underwhelming, same with Librarians. Libbys were fine when they weren't support officers... Recon Marines need to be completely re-thunk. Imo a squad of 10 with Sniper rifles and power armour should only cost 170 points, and come with Scout and Infiltrate. The Standard AoD force org should have 4 available slots in Elite, Fast and Heavy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/322517-aod-army-list-wish-list/#findComment-4398631 Share on other sites More sharing options...
helterskelter Posted May 18, 2016 Share Posted May 18, 2016 Destroyers only need a little tweak. I genuinely think they're worth the points but that in part is due to the fact they work quite well in an NL army, on the charge they can smash t3 to smithereens, bring down t5 critters to deal able levels (having given my sarge a powerfist too) Plus rad missiles can make shenanigans even more fun. Just a few less points would be nice but for me not a requirement Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/322517-aod-army-list-wish-list/#findComment-4398660 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminus Posted May 18, 2016 Share Posted May 18, 2016 Anyone asking for Scorpius squadrons is a bad person. That tank needs to be 25% more expensive as it is. :P I am going to echo everyone's comments about the Troop section. I too, would like to see cheaper Assault Marines. The jump-pack tax should only be 5 points per model, not 10, for a 200-point base unit. Breachers need something. I would have liked if they had siege mantlets allowing them to re-roll all saves, not just templates/blasts. Alternatively, making void-hardened an optional upgrade for everyone in the Legion would be nice too. Alternatively, I always felt that Breachers as is should have melta-bombs included in their cost, particularly now that they don't auto-kill knights in a round of combat. Tactical squads could use something too, maybe Fury of the Legion can be used even after you move? Would make those big blobs that much more dangerous. Recon marines need... something... like going down to 100 points per unit and get free Camo. What they really need to fix is the BRB sniper rifle rules. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/322517-aod-army-list-wish-list/#findComment-4398672 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corsovitt Posted May 18, 2016 Share Posted May 18, 2016 It'd be nice to have the ability to give centurions and certain consuls a command squad albeit without a Legion Standard Bearer and Chosen Veterans, just normal veteran marines who could be upgraded. It'd be nice to be able to give boarding shields to the Praetors Legion Command Squad if he carries a boarding shield himself. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/322517-aod-army-list-wish-list/#findComment-4398685 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElectricPaladin Posted May 18, 2016 Share Posted May 18, 2016 I'm going to disagree on the apothecaries and techmarines getting independent character. I like that forge lords and primus medicaes have a role, and part of that role is putting a tax on deathstars. If I want my firedrakes to have Feel No Pain, I have to spring for a primus medicae, and that is EXACTLY as it should be. I will concede that techmarines as they are now are very hard to use, and maybe could use a tweak. Perhaps they could have the option to be attached, apothecary-like, to any squad that has a dedicated transport that they can fit into (ie, you could attach one to a terminator squad as long as it's got fewer than ten dudes and has a dedicated spartan)? Something that still limits them, but they're a little easier to use. Other than that... I agree with most of the rest. Recon marines should be more attractive. Breachers could maybe be a little cheaper. Assault marines need something to make them useful. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/322517-aod-army-list-wish-list/#findComment-4398728 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminus Posted May 18, 2016 Share Posted May 18, 2016 Oh yeah, command squads should be characters, or at least the banner bearer, so they can take neat Legion-only equipment. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/322517-aod-army-list-wish-list/#findComment-4398836 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted May 19, 2016 Author Share Posted May 19, 2016 Oh yeah, command squads should be characters, or at least the banner bearer, so they can take neat Legion-only equipment. This ^ I could see this happen actually, especially as they are releasing those upgrade packs! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/322517-aod-army-list-wish-list/#findComment-4399258 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenith Posted May 19, 2016 Share Posted May 19, 2016 Oh yeah, command squads should be characters, or at least the banner bearer, so they can take neat Legion-only equipment. Erm, they already are, aren't they? Check the "Chosen Warriors" rule. Unless I'm missing something? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/322517-aod-army-list-wish-list/#findComment-4399331 Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronDrake28 Posted May 19, 2016 Share Posted May 19, 2016 Oh yeah, command squads should be characters, or at least the banner bearer, so they can take neat Legion-only equipment. Erm, they already are, aren't they? Check the "Chosen Warriors" rule. Unless I'm missing something? That's only to allow them to challenge. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/322517-aod-army-list-wish-list/#findComment-4399351 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted May 19, 2016 Author Share Posted May 19, 2016 Oh yeah, command squads should be characters, or at least the banner bearer, so they can take neat Legion-only equipment. Erm, they already are, aren't they? Check the "Chosen Warriors" rule. Unless I'm missing something? Aye, I had the same thought Xenith, but it got updated in the LA:CL book. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/322517-aod-army-list-wish-list/#findComment-4399490 Share on other sites More sharing options...
norngahl Posted May 19, 2016 Share Posted May 19, 2016 Okay, let's start... 1. HQ - Support Officer is ace. A libby is a libby and doesn't take part in the chain of command. Make a exception for Thousand Sons of course. - MOOOOORE Centurion Options!! They are so sweet and add lovely flair. - Reduce the point cost of some guys IMHO.. the master of signals with a single bombardement is so meh.. especially because he is support officer AND costs nearly as much as a scorpius with minimal gear.. you did it on the delegatus.. do it to some other ones as well. You know, pretty much anyone beside a primus medicae, pretty much the only centurion we see regulary beside a praetor or special char.. 2. Elite - Make Contemptors a little cheaper..? Please? - Destroyers.. what about 200 for 10? Seriously. Jump Packs much cheaper. Say 25 for the whole squad.. Hey, they can't take a transport to hide in and they are still 3+ and darn expensive! 3. Troops - Make CCW for tacticals 1 point per model and I'd take them regulary instead of pure fluffbunny.. you get 20 attacks at best out of it, usually 10 once you enter combat and took a few hits.. - Assault squads.. say 175 for 10 and 12 per additional guy. - Breachers.. make VHA an option and give out 175points for 10 as base. 25 points for MB for the whole squad. - Recon Squads.. 5 for 90 and infiltrators for free! Guys these are support squads, none takes them at such an insane price!! 4. Fast Attack - Seekers.. 5 for 125. - Legion Outriders.. 80, and additional ones for 20. - Legion Jetbikes.. 135.. and addional ones for 25. - Dreadclaws.. Inertial Guidance??!! 5. Heavy Support - Please make LR much cheaper..say 50 points each.. come on.. you handed out krak missiles, meltas and meltabombs, SUNDER and tank hunder.. have a heart for the puny old land raider and I might actually see one on the battlefield.. - Caestus assault ram.. lets say 250 and we have a deal.. - Kharybdiss.. 200.. come on, 2 dreadclaws shouldn't be cheaper than a single big one. Especially because the only thing it is used for is deathstars (better in spartans anyway) or tacticals/3+ alike.. - Scorpius.. let's be honest.. it should be 150 but squadron.. 6. LOW - Don't care but all cheaper and the typhon up to 400. More Rites of war would be cool.. make it a challenge like win a titan and your fans will send you a ton of great ideas!!! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/322517-aod-army-list-wish-list/#findComment-4399695 Share on other sites More sharing options...
m0nolith Posted May 19, 2016 Share Posted May 19, 2016 Cheaper Assault Marines Cheaper Destroyers and I want a dual bolt pistol wielding Moritat to become viable... somehow... That new Moritat with the dual silenced pistols looks far too cool not to field! Ability to take Phospex bolts or something? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/322517-aod-army-list-wish-list/#findComment-4399760 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olis Posted May 19, 2016 Share Posted May 19, 2016 Needless to say, I'd want volkites for everyone. The ability to make an early great crusade style of list would be nice. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/322517-aod-army-list-wish-list/#findComment-4399769 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminus Posted May 19, 2016 Share Posted May 19, 2016 Okay, let's start... 1. HQ - Reduce the point cost of some guys IMHO.. the master of signals with a single bombardement is so meh.. especially because he is support officer AND costs nearly as much as a scorpius with minimal gear.. you did it on the delegatus.. do it to some other ones as well. You know, pretty much anyone beside a primus medicae, pretty much the only centurion we see regulary beside a praetor or special char. 2. Elite - Make Contemptors a little cheaper..? Please? - Destroyers.. what about 200 for 10? Seriously. Jump Packs much cheaper. Say 25 for the whole squad.. Hey, they can't take a transport to hide in and they are still 3+ and darn expensive! 3. Troops - Make CCW for tacticals 1 point per model and I'd take them regulary instead of pure fluffbunny.. you get 20 attacks at best out of it, usually 10 once you enter combat and took a few hits.. - Assault squads.. say 175 for 10 and 12 per additional guy. - Breachers.. make VHA an option and give out 175points for 10 as base. 25 points for MB for the whole squad. - Recon Squads.. 5 for 90 and infiltrators for free! Guys these are support squads, none takes them at such an insane price!! 4. Fast Attack - Seekers.. 5 for 125. - Legion Outriders.. 80, and additional ones for 20. - Legion Jetbikes.. 135.. and addional ones for 25. - Dreadclaws.. Inertial Guidance??!! 5. Heavy Support - Please make LR much cheaper..say 50 points each.. come on.. you handed out krak missiles, meltas and meltabombs, SUNDER and tank hunder.. have a heart for the puny old land raider and I might actually see one on the battlefield.. - Caestus assault ram.. lets say 250 and we have a deal.. - Kharybdiss.. 200.. come on, 2 dreadclaws shouldn't be cheaper than a single big one. Especially because the only thing it is used for is deathstars (better in spartans anyway) or tacticals/3+ alike.. - Scorpius.. let's be honest.. it should be 150 but squadron.. 6. LOW - Don't care but all cheaper and the typhon up to 400. 1. We do see the Chaplain and Forge Lord, but I agree many of these options can be cheaper (15-20 point range for most seems right). The delegatus getting his rules and a master-crafted weapon (a 5-10 point value depending on who's buying it), for only 15 points is a great example. He's probably on the cheap side. 2. The Contemptor can't be made that much cheaper, since that would step on the Cortus Contemptor toes. However they could split the difference somewhere by making it like 160 points. Not that much cheaper, but it absorbs the cost of the graviton gun. I would like to see the Mortis stay as they are but gain a cyclone missile launcher for free. They make the damn bit, let us have it! The Ultras/Warriors' launchers are still cutting edge for being carried by infantry. Destroyers are about as good as veterans before you add jump-packs, so them costing the same would make sense. 3. 1 point CCWs would be an acceptable alternative if they feel Fury of the Legion on the move is too strong. Your proposed assault marines are too cheap, a jump pack is worth more than 2 points per model (even 40K marines pay only 3). I would say 200 for base unit and like 13 for each additional is more than fair. So a base unit would be 50 points cheaper than destroyers. Breachers could just stay equipped as they are, but be 200 for base unit. 25 for melta-bombs is good, I'd probably take that for larger footslogging units even with the nerf to grenades in melee. Recons 100 + 10 for each, just to make things nice and round? I just realized we made most of the infantry units in the army about ~200 points. If that ain't balance, I don't know what is! 5 recon marines - 100 10 tacticals - 150 10 recon marines - 200 10 breachers - 200 10 assault marines - 200 10 veterans - 200 10 destroyers - 200 20 tactical marines with extra CCW - 270 20 breachers with melta-bombs - 325 20 assault marines - 330 Seems about right to me. 4. Dreadclaw is fine as is and borderline overpowered. 20 points is way too cheap for bikes, we'd see as many all biker armies as in 40K where they cost 21. It would be over the top. The bikes are priced okay, they just need cheaper weapons upgrades, 10-15 points rather than 25. Jetbikes are fine. Both White Scars and Dark Angels can do some really interesting things with these guys, as well as Salamanders and I think Death Guard can swap the heavy bolters for flamers? Regarding Seekers, that's the price of Mor Deythan, who are super-duper Seekers, so I'm not sure why regular Seekers or the original Headhunters are 50 points more per model. Special ammo isn't that awesome. 5-6: Agreed on everything, except Kharybdis. I used to feel the same as you, but there is a lot to be said about having a transport capacity of 20 for a big deathstar that arrives in the enemy's deployment zone at the top of turn 1 with 5 hull points and jink. It's tougher and more reliable than any Land Raider or Spartan, while being much cheaper than the latter too. Anything below 240 would be stealing. 400 point Typhon is interesting, it means you can't give it any upgrades if you want to use it at 2000 points or less, so it can be killed by melta-guns. I'd probably make it 405, but 400 is fair. We negotiatin'? :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/322517-aod-army-list-wish-list/#findComment-4399794 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Memento Of Prospero Posted May 19, 2016 Share Posted May 19, 2016 Other than obvious cost tweeking (these are boring and obvious) Make destroyers great again. They can stay the same points, but give them some punch, mini-chain fire, rad ammo (shred rending, gets hot maybe?). Twin Linked is the most idiotic rule in all of 40k's creation, and it's always back for more. What do you mean those 2 lascannons can only every hit once at best? Get rid of that, make it wat you see is what you get and suddenly landraiders have good offensive output. Same for With Javelins and Fire Raptors. Rapier Quad Heavy Bolters would rock. I would even open a lead farming business for all that extra ammo. Assault from reserves for jump troops, as a disorganized charge if they do not run or shoot. Makes the premium on assault marines worth something, and it also makes taking addition CCWs on marines much more interesting. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/322517-aod-army-list-wish-list/#findComment-4399800 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prodigal Son of Magnus Posted May 19, 2016 Share Posted May 19, 2016 HQ slot is mostly fine. Only thing I would change is making the Legion Champ cheaper. As is a Praetor flat out does the job better. Elites are fine other than Destroyers. For Troops, Assault Marines and Breachers should be 200 for a base squad, then they are fine. Recon Marines need a price drop. FA: Land Speeders need something. Right now they are just to fragile. HS: Scorpius needs a nerfing. I'd say make the blast S6 and raise it to 150. I would also do Squadroned Sicarans or 4 HS slots like someone else suggested. LOW: Nerf the Typhon, everything else is fine. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/322517-aod-army-list-wish-list/#findComment-4399904 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminus Posted May 19, 2016 Share Posted May 19, 2016 Actually most of the rest of the LOWs are pretty terrible, almost all of the tanks are overpriced. They hark from an older mindset where AP3 was damn impressive. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/322517-aod-army-list-wish-list/#findComment-4399941 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brofist Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 At the weekender the FW crew was all "breachers need help, what?" Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/322517-aod-army-list-wish-list/#findComment-4400016 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminus Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 And I fully expect them to only touch like 10% of the book, if anything. Much like the Legions book, they fixed some stuff, broke some other stuff, and left too many things that needed looking over untouched. Making all the core stuff awesome may make some of the specialist units even worse than they already are, so I fully expect many things will stay as is. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/322517-aod-army-list-wish-list/#findComment-4400069 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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