Apparent changes in the hardback volume of 'A Thousand Sons'

[Petitioner's City]

According to a poster on Battle Bunnies, the numbers of XV Legion have been revised in the latest hardback of A Thousand Sons:

 

Alex Woodard17 May 2016 at 21:45

 

Hey, just to let you know, Forgeworld's timeline places Prospero at two years before Istvaan III, which is in accordance with A Thousand Sons, as the event is placed just after Horus' corruption at Davin, which was only a few months before.

 

Also, as of the reprint of A Thousand Sons into its hardcover format, the numbers of the Sons at Prospero have been revised. Only ten thousand were there, while the majority of the Legion was either part of the scattered defense fleet or still actively participating in the Great Crusade to prevent the Thousand Sons for being censured in the same manner the Word Bearers were while they sat at Prospero for an entire year before Magnus blew up the Emperor's wards under the Palace. However, they are still a significant force as evidenced by the fact they could withstand an orbital bombardment and use the planetary defences to inflict major damage among Russ' fleet, damage the Space Wolves still feel three years later in Scars.

 

Still, this is an interesting notion.
 

 

This seems to take into account some of the ideas of Talon of Horus such as people like Ashur-Kai missing out on the battle. But it also makes sense in terms of the cross-galactic array of the heresy and not *all* the Legion being with Magnus during the events of the novel. 

[helterskelter]

Twelve hundred and forty two survive the razing of prospero

 

But that still leaves 70,000 plus warriors doing what exactly?

Apart from 1000 founding the blood ravens/silver skulls/any chapter that uses psykers and scrying as their main bag

[Petitioner's City]

Twelve hundred and forty two survive the razing of prospero

 

But that still leaves 70,000 plus warriors doing what exactly?

 

 

If the conflict is anything like past HH books, maybe tens of thousands died at Prospero. We'll find out at the end of the year. Also does anyone know is Ahriman's count at the end of the edited volume is increased?

 

But indeed the grand size of the Legion is good - Khayon had at least 104 Rubricae for the assault on Canticle City, Amon hundreds in Exile, etc. It didn't make sense in the scale of the old Legion, but it makes much sense now. 

[Hrolf the Cunning]

If that is the case, it makes the mauling the wolves cop even worse… 

[Hergrmir]

I wonder if they'll revise the number of Space Wolves at Prospero down on similar grounds, or have some significant as-yet unmentioned allies for the Sons in the FW book on the battle.

[helterskelter]

I think someone on here wrote it's gotta be at least 3 to 1 when attacking something so if revised numbers should be 30,000 ish wolves, plus custodes, plus silent sisterhood, plus imperial army and assets (plus sons of horus contigent/legio mortis)

Vs

10,000 ish thousand sons, plus prosperine spire guard, plus titan, and whatever assets didn't get a shift on when Magnus told them too

 

If everything is properly revised

Which would then leave the other half of the wolves about the galaxy, not including 1 to 2 companies worth of watch packs that aren't coming back and my earlier guesstimate of 70k plus Thousand sons roaming the place either behaving themselves, wandering off, or siding with Horus, or the one guy that died with the furious abyss

[DuskRaider]

I believe there's only 50,000 Thousand Sons Astartes at the time of the Prospero razing. In contrast, there's supposedly 81,000 Space Wolves. I believe these were numbers mentioned at the last event.

[Atia]

I think someone on here wrote it's gotta be at least 3 to 1 when attacking something so if revised numbers should be 30,000 ish wolves, plus custodes, plus silent sisterhood, plus imperial army and assets (plus sons of horus contigent/legio mortis)

Vs

10,000 ish thousand sons, plus prosperine spire guard, plus titan, and whatever assets didn't get a shift on when Magnus told them too

 

If everything is properly revised

Which would then leave the other half of the wolves about the galaxy, not including 1 to 2 companies worth of watch packs that aren't coming back and my earlier guesstimate of 70k plus Thousand sons roaming the place either behaving themselves, wandering off, or siding with Horus, or the one guy that died with the furious abyss

Don't forget potential forces of the Arkhadine Mechanicum at Prospero, aswell as maybe Knights and other titans smaller than the Warlord, aswell as potential Tzeentch Daemons ^^

[helterskelter]

They can be assets :p

[Atia]

They can be assets

Shall i throw with a Thanatar-Arkhadia?^^

[Kol Saresk]

Twelve hundred and forty two survive the razing of prospero

 

But that still leaves 70,000 plus warriors doing what exactly?

Apart from 1000 founding the blood ravens/silver skulls/any chapter that uses psykers and scrying as their main bag

Actually fighting in the Great Crusade. Magnus sat on his butt for a year at Prospero while the Great Crusade went on. A. Year.

 

Now, Lorgar got punished because he was slow. Do you really think the Emperor is going to tolerate an entire Legion literally doing nothing for a year? I mean seriously, knowing what we know about the Emperor and his personal communication skills, does anyone here actually believe that is an option? Magnus is lucky the Emperor let him just sit there and didn't get ticked off until he blew up his throne.

 

I get nobody likes a retcon and blah blah blah. But seriously, sometimes we need to sit back and take into account the logistics and what not.

[helterskelter]

Kol

 

and my earlier guesstimate of 70k plus Thousand sons roaming the place either behaving themselves, wandering off, or siding with Horus, or the one guy that died with the furious abyss

[Kol Saresk]

Fair enough. I'll admit to being hasty. Although to be entirely fair, that same thing was pointed out in the OP before your question.

 

But I was in the wrong so I apologize.

[helterskelter]

It was more wanting to know where the rest of the legion were in relation to prospero as that's a lot of guys having literally no idea their home was torn to shreds, and it's not been addressed anywhere that a significant number of Thousand Sons are still crusading.

Considering the world eaters, death guard and white scars have all managed the trip, there's only one legionary that went home to find out.

[Atia]

It was more wanting to know where the rest of the legion were in relation to prospero as that's a lot of guys having literally no idea their home was torn to shreds, and it's not been addressed anywhere that a significant number of Thousand Sons are still crusading.

Considering the world eaters, death guard and white scars have all managed the trip, there's only one legionary that went home to find out.

Well to be fair - I think this is one of the, lets call it retcons, that got done by FW to make fans of all Legions happy. Both Thousand Sons and Death Guard had the huge problem that their "30k armies" were useless after Istvaan/Prospero, in old fluff. Now we got the Death Guard waging war as 30k Death Guard instead of "we were trapped all the time in the warp and are now Plague Marines and attack Terra", aswell as red Thousands Sons who aren't stranded at Sortiarius.

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

I could actually buy the 1K Sons sitting on Prospero for a year and the Emperor not kicking the door down, because...

 

-the Legion had to revise how it waged war in a fundamental and identity changing way. Maybe the Emperor recognized this and the fallout from Nikea on their pride and gave them time to lick their wounds

-maybe the Emperor was actually busy on Terra. Given how later sources would paint Nikea as a hasty solution to a messy problem that was kinda being brushed aside, I think the Emperor had greater demands on his time (the whole Webway War springs to mind) than minding a finally chastised child. 

[Kol Saresk]

 

 

It was more wanting to know where the rest of the legion were in relation to prospero as that's a lot of guys having literally no idea their home was torn to shreds, and it's not been addressed anywhere that a significant number of Thousand Sons are still crusading.

Considering the world eaters, death guard and white scars have all managed the trip, there's only one legionary that went home to find out.

Well to be fair - I think this is one of the, lets call it retcons, that got done by FW to make fans of all Legions happy. Both Thousand Sons and Death Guard had the huge problem that their "30k armies" were useless after Istvaan/Prospero, in old fluff. Now we got the Death Guard waging war as 30k Death Guard instead of "we were trapped all the time in the warp and are now Plague Marines and attack Terra", aswell as red Thousands Sons who aren't stranded at Sortiarius.

Not to mention it removes the numerical barrier. A Legion with only 1,000 warriors doesn't inspire a big following in armies when there are Legions that are basically numberless due to the fact that we're only given estimates for part of the force.

 

But as far as where the numbers are in relation to Prospero, literally all over. We get the one dude in Ultramar, and Daemonology says the Death Guard were wiping out defense fleets and garrisons across the breadth and width of whatever territory the XV are in charge of.

 

And when we're getting an Iron Warriors fleet at Paramar that everyone forgot about just popping up, or a World Eaters fleet that popped up in the middle of the Heresy and got pissed they missed Istvaan, well they can be anywhere.

[Balthamal]

I could actually buy the 1K Sons sitting on Prospero for a year and the Emperor not kicking the door down, because...

 

-the Legion had to revise how it waged war in a fundamental and identity changing way. Maybe the Emperor recognized this and the fallout from Nikea on their pride and gave them time to lick their wounds

-maybe the Emperor was actually busy on Terra. Given how later sources would paint Nikea as a hasty solution to a messy problem that was kinda being brushed aside, I think the Emperor had greater demands on his time (the whole Webway War springs to mind) than minding a finally chastised child.

There was also the issue of Nikea being like the last "stop" for the Emperor on his way home. Ullanor had been put to bed so it was a case of there being nothing to draw his attention from his Webway project. Keeping an eye on Magnus wasn't on the agenda (grade A parenting skills again)

 

Besides as far as Emps was concerned getting Magnus off his arse would have been Horus' responsibility

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I find it very hard to believe the invasion of Prospero occurs before Ivstann.

[DuskRaider]

Let alone two years...

[Kol Saresk]

I find it very hard to believe the invasion of Prospero occurs before Ivstann.

Except that A Thousand Sons places it just after Davin and according to every timeline Forgeworld has pumped out so far, both Davin and the Razing are two years before Istvaan. And that was the paperback edition of Prospero. So that's been the case for six years now.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Never seen it and don't believe it .

[Kriegsmacht]

The Emperor has been sitting on his throne for those 2 years checking his watch.

 

"Where the Warp is Russ? It's been 2 years I gave him ONE job. I sure hope no one changed my orders during that time I would look silly."

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

40k is retcon not 30k.

[Kol Saresk]

40k is retcon not 30k.

What does that even mean? That you deny anything since the Index Astartes articles?