Apparent changes in the hardback volume of 'A Thousand Sons'

[Kol Saresk]

The majority of a Legion, Sisters, and Custodes (now, SoH and Titan support as well) against a relative handful of Thousand Sons and they were mauled enough to have to regroup.

*relative handful of Thousand Sons with an entire planet of of surface to orbit defenses, an entire planetful of Prosperine Spireguard, psychically controlled robots, a literally burning Titan that spewed fire from every single weapon, oh and they also had daemons. Yeah, they were so outgunned. Instead of one thousand psykers, they should have had 50,000. Just to make the Wolves feel special.

 

Russ and his Legion lost to the World Eaters during the "Night of the Wolf".

This is the Night of the Wolf where Russ let Angron beat while the Wolves themselves ignored the World Eaters so that they could get a killing shot at Angron, thus forcing the Red Angel to stalemate and leave for the sake of self-preservation? Yep. Sure. Russ "lost" the Night of the Wolf when he is literally the only person in all of BL literature to force Angron into a retreat without dying. Yep. Sure.

 

We saw the same thing with the complete rewrite of the UM role in the war, did we not?

What rewrite? The rewrite that Calth used to be literally the entire Ultramarines Legion versus a small force of Word Bearers who were so badly beating them that it took seven years for Guilliman to defeat them? And in the face of their defeat, Kor Phaeron poisoned Calth's sun?

 

Yeah, that was much more awesome than the current background were only a portion of Ultramarines(albeit 4/5 of the Legion) were ambushed by a fraction of that number, rapidly regrouped and then beat back said fraction, while literally 499 other worlds were under virtual simultaneous attack, and yet the Ultramarines beat back the Shadow Crusade and are currently trying to break through the Ruinstorm. Yep, we should go back to the old background. Makes Kor Phaeron seem like a total boss to hold off Guilliman and the entire XIII for seven years with only a fraction of that number.

[Combat_Vet]

 

What rewrite?

 

The rewrite where Warmaster Horus sent the XIII Legion to the Eastern Fringe effectively removing them from the fighting in the war.

 

The new fluff has the being surprise attacked by one Legion and surviving and then effectively fighting against two legions with demonic and other allies (and building Emperium Secundus).

 

I suppose both of these rewrites are better than the old. old fluff of the UM running breeding camps for their recruits though :) Then again I miss the old days of the Imperial Fists doing slum sweeps to recruit the worst serial killers to fill their ranks.

[Kol Saresk]

The Ultramarines being sent to Calth with orders to muster for a campaign in the Eastern Fringe isn't a rewrite..... Not if I remember the Index Astartes correctly at any rate.

[Kriegsmacht]

They were fighting in the Galactic South moving further and further away from Terra. No mention about being ordered to Calth. Guilliman didn't receive word about the betrayal until the siege was happening. En route to Terra they were attacked by an enemy fleet which slowed them down. The shadow crusade and ruinstorm were additions to pad out the reason why the Ultramarines were out of action in the new 7 year timeline.\

 

Edit: Ok in the Word Bearers IA there's a paragraph  about them splitting their fleet and Kor Phaeron attacking Calth(Logar went straight to Terra) because of their orbital platforms and that the citizens felt safe. Says their were Ultramarines there but nothing about a huge chunk of the Legion mustering there.

[Conn Eremon]

No, in my head I included that in the numbers. The paperback had it the whole Legion was there, just that the Legion was ten thousand. According to Laurie Goulding way back when, the idea was to change as little as possible. Which meant changing one line so it only said "out of those at Prospero", or finding every single reference to the Legion's numbers and trying to change them, without any knowledge of what Forgeworld wanted them to be at.

 

Black Library picked the path of least resistance and honestly, so would I.

 

I mean let's face it, how many Legions do we see routinely traveling solely as a single entity? None. Even the Wolves didn't operate as a single entity except when needed. And I'm not referring to the Watch Packs either.

 

The other thing is, yes the Emperor was occupied with the Golden Throne, but given the fact that Lorgar and the Word Bearers were being secret squirrel sneaky between Ullanor and Davin, it's painfully obvious the Emperor was still keeping an eye out. And that was with the parts of the Legion that didn't have Custodes babysitters.

 

It's also evidenced by the fact that the White Scars and Wolves both took precautions to hide the fact that they too were ignoring the Edict by claiming their psykers' titles held different responsibilities and thus were necessary positions.

 

So the excuse "The Emperor wouldn't have noticed an entire Legion sitting on its butt doesn't really fly. Especially when compared to after the Webway War started and the Emperor was able to play regicide with an astropath, keep an eye on Dorn and Malcador trying to assassinate Horus, talking to Corax, and then opening up his labs for Corax, all the while forcefully keeping a warp rift shut while directing countless troops in battle. So sorry, but that excuse is very........... "small picture", in my opinion.

 

So is it a great move? Probably not. Is it a logical move? Probably also, yes.

That's the thing, I don't see the path taken as the one with least resistance, nor the most logical one. That path would have been to simply increase the numbers at Prospero, among both Legions and possibly the other associated groups as well. A simple, minimal change, that would have left the BL books largely as they already were, but leaving plenty of new room for Forge World to expand upon the war like they did with Calth.

 

And frankly, we have quite a few examples of Legions operating as a single unit or nearly so. The Death Guard routinely do so. Many Legions did so in preparation for, and execution of, certain campaigns. The Thousand Sons returning home whole so that they can do what they had been ordered to do is no different than that.

 

I'm not sure why you bring up the Emperor's perceptiveness, though. What excuse would be needed? What would it have mattered if the Emperor had or had not known? The result would have been either the XV never factored into his thinking, because he doesn't notice, or he does notice, and thinks, what? Good, they're following my orders? No need for an excuse to avoid that.

 

It sounds like you are assuming that the Sons whole at Prospero is comparable to the Word Bearers pre-Monarchia. But how does that compare? Spending a single year (as that has been the timeline mentioned here) to do what the Emperor had ordered, compared to the majority of a century doing what the Emperor had ordered not to do? The Thousand Sons not being at Prospero, as apparently the vast majority were not, is more comparable. So if the Emperor was paying attention, why didn't he immediately censure the Legion when word came they were disobeying from the start?

[Marshal Rohr]

Wasn't the emperors thing that he was building 3 dimensional 'roads' in the webway? It had described a serious of gateways and 'locks' like canals to hold the thing open.

[Petitioner's City]

To be fair, I never said you didn't know the background. However, if that was the impression you received, then I apologize.

 

That said, I was merely pointing out that the fluff has been rather consistent on what the Webway is. I provided the analogy simply to showcase what the current idea is. Now, having heard some of the mentions of an experimental Golden Throne from Path of Heavens in this thread and it showcasing a radical view of the Webway, and drawing on the older material mentioning that the Emperor wanted to create a man-made Webway, I'd imagine that the "new revised view" wasn't a revision, but rather a revelation into the Emperor's experiments. That it wasn't just an experimental Golden Throne, but one of the Emperor's attempts to also create his Webway passage. And, I'd imagine that since the whole point of the book is that the Scars had to stop a daemonic incursion because the passageway was just open to the warp, the experiment was a failure and the Emperor simply used it to improve the Golden Throne Mk II while choosing to simply build upon the Webway that already existed, thus necessitating the need for expeditions to map the Webway, an effort which would eventually result in the Atlas Infernal.

 

But speaking as someone who is relatively newer to the background(came in right after 4th Edition launched), many of my observations tend to be hindsight, rather than "experience". That's why I can point out that many of A D-B's "revisions", are not revisions at all; they are taking tiny little one-liners and then giving us a total background summary of why that one-liner existed.

 

Take the Black Legion for example. I'm guessing you believe that it is no longer true the Black Legion is created from the Sons of Horus that Abaddon had with him when he destroyed Horus' clone? I'd say you're wrong.It is still a true statement. There were Sons of Horus there and they outnumbered the two Thousand Sons, one Emperor's Child, and one World Eater. The only thing they didn't outnumber were the Rubricae IIRC but those poor sods don't really get a choice in most matters.

 

But regardless, it is still a true statement. But it is a half-truth. The whole truth would be that the Black Legion was created from the Sons of Horus fighting with Abaddon, as well as the World Eater, Thousand Sons, Rubricae, and Emperor's Child that were allied with him. And actually, that isn't even the whole truth since the Black Legion was still not created when Khayon recruited the Tizcan swordsmith. So there could be even more Legions that eventually join the mix. Possibly even some Renegades.

 

But the reason A D-B gave us such a varied beginning wasn't to "revise" the background; it was to explain it. I mean seriously, did no one ever wonder why the Black Legion has a history of recruiting and accepting volunteers from the other warbands of Chaos Space Marines? It wasn't about numbers. At least, not entirely. What Talon of Horus shows us is that the practice existed because it was one of the founding principles of the Black Legion. It wasn't a revision. It was an explanation of a piece of the background that no one had bothered to ask "why?" about.

 

So in my personal opinion, if you're expecting Emperor of Mankind to drastically change the background itself, I think you'll be disappointed. That said, as you have pointed out, we'll have to wait until the book drops to see what happens.

 

Kol, I must admit I disagree with how you are using the language and the concept of the Legion. I'll quote the sections of the text I quoted on the wikia. First Khayon's words to the inquisitors:

 

‘You are stalling,’ one of the males accused me. ‘Tell us how the Sons of Horus took their new title. Tell us how they became the Black Legion.’ At first, I had no answer. I wasn’t certain the question was genuine. ‘I said I would tell you how the Sons of Horus died and how the Black Legion was born. I never said one became the other.’ But he wasn’t finished. He had scripture of his own to quote. ‘It is written by Scryer Dianthon: “And thus, driven from Holy Terra and reigning forevermore in the underworld, the Sons of Horus, the treacherous Sixteenth, became the Black Legion.”’ Ah. Suddenly it all made sense. ‘From shame and shadow recast,’ I said softly, the words for myself alone. ‘In black and gold reborn.’ ‘What?’ ‘I told you – before the beginning, there was an end. The Sons of Horus never reigned in the Eye. Their ghosts commanded nothing but graveyards of their own warships. Their shades ruled over fallen fortresses. The Sons of Horus died ten thousand of your years ago. I know. I watched it happen. They were the Sixteenth Legion. But the Black Legion was not founded by the Emperor and never fought in his name. It bears no number. Numbers were only bestowed upon the Legions of the Great Crusade, and we, my Imperial friends, are the Legion of the Long War.’

 

Then the description of the people around the table. I think the chapter is crystal clear that this is different from earlier perceptions:

 

We stood around the central hololithic table, a handful of warriors standing where armies once stood. I felt like a scavenger, come to sift through the dust of the glorious past. I will list the names of those present, to be recorded now in Imperial archives. Some of these warriors are long lost, fallen as casualties in the Long War. Others are unrecognisable with their true names forgotten, their original identities buried beneath a host of warmongering titles granted by a fearful Imperium. These are the names they bore then, back on that distant day.

Falkus Kibre, the Widowmaker, last chieftain of the broken Justaerin and lord of the Duraga kal Esmejhak warband. With him were almost thirty of his brothers, clad in the heavy plate of their murderous clan.

Telemachon Lyras, sword-captain of the Emperor’s Children. He stood alone – the only one of his brothers not fed to the hungry lusts of my eldar companion. The shadows that darkened the entire command deck were unable to diminish the silver sheen of his rapturous face mask.

Ashur-Kai, the White Seer, sorcerer and sage of the Thousand Sons. He stood with a phalanx of our Rubricae, numbering one hundred and four of our ashen brothers. Tokugra, his carrion crow, watched proceedings from its perch on his shoulder.

Lheorvine Ukris, known – much to his gall – as Firefist, gunnery-captain of the World Eaters and commander of the Fifteen Fangs. He stood with Ugrivian and their four surviving brothers, each one holding a massive heavy bolter at ease.

Sargon Eregesh, Abaddon’s oracle, a warrior-priest of the Word Bearers’ Brazenhead Chapter. He also stood alone, clad in the faithful red of the XVII Legion, his armour inscribed with Colchisian runes in worn gold leaf.

And I, Iskandar Khayon, in the age before my brothers called me Kingbreaker and my foes called me Khayon the Black. My armour was the cobalt and bronze of the Thousand Sons and my skin then – as it is now – the equatorial duskiness of the Tizcan-born. At my side was Nefertari, my eldar bloodward, dark of armour and pallid of flesh, with her grey wings closed tightly to her back. She leaned on an ornate spear stolen from a tomb on an eldar crone world, deep in the Eye. Gyre stood at my other side, the black wolf’s malignant white eyes ever-watchful. Her mood matched my own, as my eagerness translated through her physical form. She reeked of the blood we would soon spill. Her fur smelt of murder, her breath of war.

 

[...]

 

I admit, in that light, it felt almost fated. Each of us spoke of Legions we no longer believed in, of fathers we no longer idolised, of daemonic Legion home worlds we refused to claim as havens. These doubts were nothing new, but they were matters rarely spoken aloud. In a way our words bordered on confession, the way sinners once sought absolution by admitting their crimes to ministers of the oldest faiths. On a much more practical level it was plainly a tactical appraisal. We were soldiers citing our histories, laying out how our hatreds and talents alike bound us to a greater whole. It was all done with a lack of posturing or brooding pomposity. I admired that.

 

[...]

 

As he finished speaking, Abaddon promised us a place aboard the Vengeful Spirit if we desired it – if we would stand with him for this one brutal assault. ‘A new Legion,’ he concluded, surprising several of the others with the offer. ‘Forged as we desire, not as slaves to the Emperor’s will and cast in the image of his flawed primarchs. Bound together by loyalty and ambition, not nostalgia and desperation. Untainted by the past,’ he said at last. ‘No longer the sons of failed fathers.’

 

It's slightly different from unifying a broken legion - so far! And I think the BL has always been depicted as taking in others - this wasn't the retcon. The retcon was that a Thousand Son, a Emperor's Children and a World Eater - as well as a possessed Falkus & Justaerin (plus eldar, mechanicum magos, etc) were all instrumental in finding Abaddon and being manipulated by Abaddon into forming his 'new Legion [...] Bound together by loyalty and ambition, not nostalgia and desperation. Untainted by the past’. The past including each's former legions. 

 

But maybe I'm splitting hairs - yet I think the novel is true to 2nd edition and 3rd edition whilst massively painting the canvas beyond what had been previously conceived. Obviously Black Legion might include more Sons in prominent positions too!

[Marshal Rohr]

"The white scars role in the emperor's quasi victory"

 

 

 

You mean like actually being at Terra?

[Combat_Vet]

"The white scars role in the emperor's quasi victory"

You mean like actually being at Terra?

The scars role at Terra is canon. Their impeding Horus' war effort single handedly and slowing the march on Terra by years before arriving on time to take part in the siege is new.

 

Notice also, in the old fluff, Russ was out of contact and missed the siege. Now he is serving as an outer picket and in contact with Terra when the Scars arrive.

 

There are more books to come. The shattered Legions will take a role in slowing Horus and a malfunctioning cleaning automata will wound Russ causing him to miss the siege at Terra (or something similar).

[Marshal Rohr]

Why are you saying this? Because Scars just got a new book? The wolves wern't at Terra, these losses are going to be why. The Scars arent getting special treatment. Its not a marketing decision. Its just how a group of different authors are writing different stories. 

[Combat_Vet]

I am enjoying the new books a great deal actually. Especially the new work on the Scars. Adding new detail to an existing story is not the same as tearing down one myth to build another.

[svane jotunsbane]

what I am curious about is, if there are only supposed to now be 10,000 legionaries on Prospero and the other 70k out on holidays around the galaxy when it is attacked, how are they going to justify the thousand sons being combat ineffective and a broken legion, as per the old fluff with the 15th legion effectively having its "back broken" after Prospero.

[Terminus]

 

Russ and his Legion lost to the World Eaters during the "Night of the Wolf".

This is the Night of the Wolf where Russ let Angron beat while the Wolves themselves ignored the World Eaters so that they could get a killing shot at Angron, thus forcing the Red Angel to stalemate and leave for the sake of self-preservation? Yep. Sure. Russ "lost" the Night of the Wolf when he is literally the only person in all of BL literature to force Angron into a retreat without dying. Yep. Sure.

Three things:

Russ wasn't "letting Angron beat him", he was outmatched. If he could overpower Angron and drag him back he would have,

Angron did not retreat, Russ wasn't willing to kill him. Russ got his bluff called.

It was a moral victory for Angron, his sons were the better combatants, he wasn't concerned about being perfect little soldiers for the Tyrant of Terra.

[Athrawes]

 

 

Russ and his Legion lost to the World Eaters during the "Night of the Wolf".

This is the Night of the Wolf where Russ let Angron beat while the Wolves themselves ignored the World Eaters so that they could get a killing shot at Angron, thus forcing the Red Angel to stalemate and leave for the sake of self-preservation? Yep. Sure. Russ "lost" the Night of the Wolf when he is literally the only person in all of BL literature to force Angron into a retreat without dying. Yep. Sure.

Three things:

Russ wasn't "letting Angron beat him", he was outmatched. If he could overpower Angron and drag him back he would have,

Angron did not retreat, Russ wasn't willing to kill him. Russ got his bluff called.

It was a moral victory for Angron, his sons were the better combatants, he wasn't concerned about being perfect little soldiers for the Tyrant of Terra.

 

 

The lesson Russ was trying to teach Angron was that it didn't matter if you're individually superior combatants, because the wolves fought as a Legion and were in a position to put a kill shot on Angron if they had wanted to. 

[A D-B]

The Webway gate was sealed immediately after. The daemons never got through. Thag's what the Webway Wars were. They were the Expedition forces exploring the Webway having to be sealed in with the daemons in order to keep them from manifesting under the Palace.

 

Small correction for clarity: They were sent in, rather than sealed in. Sealing them in would've been a bit of a low-cost operation, since they're not just there to cleanse the Webway, they're also there to make sure nothing gets past them and into the throne room. The Emperor wants to do everything he can to make sure he doesn't have to seal the gate, which is why he sends in his bestest boys and girls.

[A D-B]

Seems to me the retcons are market drivers. Too many SW armies being played and not enough WS. Rewrite the story to give the Wolves a nominal role in the war effort while making the Scars a driving force behind the quasi-victory the Emperor achieved.

 

We saw the same thing with the complete rewrite of the UM role in the war, did we not?

 

It's breathtaking to me, sometimes, what people will assume on the flimsiest, weirdest evidence. (And what several Space Wolf fans will click Like on.)

 

How could that be true? Why would it be true? What possible gain is there? The mind boggles.

 

In all seriousness, the easiest way to please the fandom and make money is to pander to a popular faction like the Space Wolves, who are perhaps The Popular Faction, and certainly the most popular Legion/Chapter by a million miles. Pandering would be making them "the best" and giving them loads of victories and looking rad all the time. That would sell more Wolves, make bank in terms of book sales, and get huge forum traction among the largest fandom.

 

Bigging up one of the least popular Legions, no matter how well it was done, would never come anywhere close to making the money or getting the talk of an A+ presentation of a truly popular one. 

 

And the idea of anything in the series being done as a market driver to make a Legion played less and another played more is just so far removed from reality that I don't even know how to begin addressing it. I can't even imagine what that conversation would look like at a meeting. Or who'd bring it up. Or why they would, when it would be to no real gain.

 

People love what they love; relatively few fans ever love a faction for its victories or because they win all the time (though you do see this with Wolf fans more than any others; they historically tend to react badly to losses in the lore and consider anything but crushing victories to be "nerfing" them - but that's because there are so many Wolf fans compared to other factions, so the loudest opinions are even louder, and because so many of those fans are accordingly young in a bigger demographic). The cover of the game's first and second editions depicted Space Marines losing. "Losing" Chapters are very popular. It's not victories that decide a faction's fans, it's flavour. So adding a few victories to someone's roster won't make them popular. Decent presentations will. And giving a Legion some context or losses (or draws) isn't to whack them with some sneering marketing-driven nonsense for no reason. 

[Leif Bearclaw]

 

In all seriousness, the easiest way to please the fandom and make money is to pander to a popular faction like the Space Wolves, who are perhaps The Popular Faction, and certainly the most popular Legion/Chapter by a million miles. Pandering would be making them "the best" and giving them loads of victories and looking rad all the time. That would sell more Wolves, make bank in terms of book sales, and get huge forum traction among the largest fandom.

 

Then why does the fluff seem to be taking the VI in the absolute opposite direction? Is the opposite viewpoint in play, that the Wolves are so loved it doesn't matter if they get shafted in the fluff, as the Wolves fanbase will buy stuff anyway? That said, I don't really buy the 'always buff the faction nobody's buying argument', but there certainly seems to be a difference in how the Wolves are being treated vs other Imperials/Legions. Hell, look at the difference between the Wolves and Ultras. We've seen a pretty successful rehabilitation of the Ultras from the 'spiritual liege' days (while still making them impressive and awesome) thanks to Know No Fear/30k, whereas the opposite seems to have happened to the Wolves thanks to PB. Strange that such different reactions were elicited by the same author...

 

It's not just 30k mind, but that's where the most heated distaste seems to stem. Possibly because 30k has been a refuge from bad fluff for other Legions (IH), it hurts more for Wolf fans to be getting the shaft there as well. My perception, quoted from a recent thread over in the SW sub.

 

Really it just feels like all BL and FW have done is taken from the HH-era Wolves. We've lost our exemplary Crusade performance (from 'Lion and the Wolf'), good relations with practically any other Legion, no allies, no great strength, in exchange for the 'executioner' schtick. Which everyone outside our little sub-fandom seemed to hate. So they took that as well, leaving the Wolves with nothing but empty boasts, horrific losses, hypocrisy and the need to be saved in every major engagement. Am I being overly negative? Probably, but that's the honest impression I've got from everything I've read and heard (for example, not read Wolf King, so everything I know about that is 2nd hand) about the Wolves in 30k. Coupled with the shafting we're getting in 40k, with the revelations in Wraight's novels, the 13th Co retcon and the idiocy of Warzone Fenris? It's just one massive downer after another. For once, I'd like some good news for the Wolves.

 

It's not about being the 'the best'. It's a desire for parity with one's peers, which I'm just not feeling these days.

[Balthamal]

 

 

It's not about being the 'the best'. It's a desire for parity with one's peers, which I'm just not feeling these days.

 

 

Without seeming to be baiting, why do you say they're lacking parity? Strictly with the BL novels for now but once Inferno is out I'm sure there'll be new angles to the debate. I mean from a neutral perspective, the Wolves certainly have it better than some others. The EC, Salamanders and NL would benefit from something more so the VI Legion are hardly lagging behind all others in that regard.

[A D-B]

 

 

It's not about being the 'the best'. It's a desire for parity with one's peers, which I'm just not feeling these days.

 

 

Yes and no. Yes, that's what it is for you. And yes, this particular thread is a good example of a change worth discussing given what it may or may not mean, lore-wise. Parity is a fine point, and I can totally see why people are taking sides on the issue. But the post I quoted was conspiracy theory nonsense and I explained why; it wasn't the same point you're making. 

 

I'm surprised at the hardback changes myself, too. And they're not my preferred way of handling it, but I've been saying on here and elsewhere since before The First Heretic came out that the Legion sizes in ATS and PB were wrong, and to expect them to get upped, so it's not a surprise. The only surprise is in exactly how it was done. 

 

I should add, parity is a serious (perhaps too severe) passion of mine when it comes to Legion capabilities. Hence things like the Night of the Wolf, where you have two Legions throwing down and both winning and losing according to their various aims and ethoses. 

[Lord Blackwood]

It always seems strange to me that folks disliked prospero burns , I really liked that book. 

I am looking forward to Inferno and the books that will come out around it.  

Weve been getting stuff for the wolves but I feel like the stuff we get around our actual release in 30k  will be much more interesting. 

Fluff shifts  , it has shifted a great deal for everyone in the HH , embrace the new works as they come and realize more is coming. 

Keep Calm and Burn Prospero 

[Balthamal]

 

Keep Calm and Burn Prospero 

 

^^This

[GhostMalone]

See you forget though everything you've been given compared to say the thousand sons and white scars Iron Hands etc.

 

There's 18 legions everyone will have there pros and cons.

 

Think I care that my world eaters aren't best table top wise? No because for all their flaws they are balanced within the fluff. Think those fans of the Salamanders are happy with some fluff treatment they aren't at all but they have good rules tabletop wise. How about the Raven Guard? Etc etc etc

 

Every Legion has pros and cons the problem is everyone who is a die hard wolf focuses solely on the cons. Just give it a chance and wait for rules and book vii until you have the facts don't start the rage

[Lord Blackwood]

 the problem is everyone who is a die hard wolf focuses solely on the cons

I feel like this is not true but a reaction  to a vocal minority. 

 

Not only because I  count myself among the classification of die hard wolf , but because I have a book club made up of other frater on this forum and we read ALL  the space wolf fluff and while there are things we criticize we loved prospero burns , we loved  wolf king , we are excited and waiting for whats coming. 

 

Sure there was some doubt cast about the recent statements about the SOH  being at prospero and such but we are just waiting patiently and are excited for each scrap of fluff we do get. 

 

Just because you read some folks voicing their issues doesn't mean that all of the space wolf players /fans  are livid about the change.  Do not generalize an entire group of people like that it benefits no one.

[GhostMalone]

Well the majority of the voices are from die hard wolves, im sorry if you think I'm generalizing the situation but I do feel it's getting beyond a doubt ridiculous in the past 3 weeks with the negativity.

 

I myself do like the wolves portrayal throughout the lore but it makes sense to the changes hence why I'm not going the sky is falling.

 

If it's taken personally fair enough but at the end of the day forgeworld have the final say

[Runefyre]

 

I should add, parity is a serious (perhaps too severe) passion of mine when it comes to Legion capabilities. Hence things like the Night of the Wolf, where you have two Legions throwing down and both winning and losing according to their various aims and ethoses. 

 

I thoroughly enjoyed betrayer, especially the Night of the Wolf incident, because both sides were treated with respect. I guess most of my misgivings come from fear of the unknown (with all these retcon discussions flying around, its hard to know what to expect), I'm super impatient for book 7's release.

 

 

edit: Does anyone know if Tzeentch daemons and Spireguard will get additional rules in book 7? That could be a cool way to balance things out. On the one hand is Space Wolves with LC, SoS, and Legion Mortis and on the other is Tsons with Spireguard, Tzeentch daemons, and automata constructs (including a titan). Not to mention all those orbital defence batteries Prospero has.