Blood Angel Captain weapon load out ...

[Helias_Tancred]

I have Tycho all painted up and ready, but I also have my self made captain ready to be built. I'm in-between two specific load-outs and I am looking for feedback and opinions.

 

He will be wearing artificer armor. He will normally be deployed with his honor guard. They are geared as Sanguinary initiate (bolt pistol and chain sword), company champion (combat shield, bolt pistol, power sword), melta gun, power fist, inferno pistol x2, power sword x2.

 

 

My choices for the captain are:

 

Power fist, "Fury of Baal" relic plasma pistol

 

or

 

Inferno pistol, "Valour's Edge" power sword

 

 

To be honest I like both. I get more attacks at higher initiative with the sword, but the power fist hits easily and wrecks almost anything whereas the sword will not hit as often. My rule of cool goes to Fury of Baal, always loved that pistol :)

 

 

[Paikis]

I personally like Valour's Edge and a plasma or grav pistol. Having said that, you already have a butt-monkey to take challenges for you, so the Fist's main drawback of you being dead before you get to swing it is less likely to apply and mastercrafted on a plasma pistol is really useful. Less likely to have it explode in your hand.

[Charlo]

We had a massive thread for this not too long ago...

 

I'll see if I can dig it up when I'm at work :)

[Xenith]

The "Captain Builds" thread:

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300901-captain-builds/

[Jolemai]

Regardless of choice, will it be ready to paint anytime soon? ;)

[CaptainHelion]

I personally like Valour's Edge and a plasma or grav pistol. Having said that, you already have a butt-monkey to take challenges for you, so the Fist's main drawback of you being dead before you get to swing it is less likely to apply and mastercrafted on a plasma pistol is really useful. Less likely to have it explode in your hand.

Just a note, Fury of Baal won't blow up in your hand EVER. It has Master Crafted instead of Gets Hot, not as well!

[evildrcheese]

Yeah, the Fury of Baal is a Plasma Pistol that can't get hot and basically never misses. Pointy though.

 

EDC

[Xenith]

Yeah, the Fury of Baal is a Plasma Pistol that can't get hot and basically never misses. Pointy though.

 

EDC

 

it would be best on a BS4 2W character, I feel. The gain most from the M.Crafted, and have fewer wounds to lose to get's Hot. It might be a cool option on a chappy, priest or libby...if grav pistols didnt exist.

[Charlo]

I do feel like it's the most lack-luster relic ever.

Grav is better and cheaper and so really is an Inferno. You can even ID most things with that!

Even just making it 2 shots would be better. Hell - Steal that Ad Mech rules that means the pistol can shoot 5 shots

GW don't half love a pistol tax though don't they?

[evildrcheese]

Pistols are appallingly pointed, we've seen the cost of Marines drop over several editions, but the cost of upgrades gas remained largely static...if upgrades had followed a similar pattern in reduction off cost we'd see some much more interesting and characterful builds..

 

EDC

[Charlo]

I do genuinely think GW puts a real emphasis on the fact you can shoot and still get an extra attack in combat with them.

 

Unless you are using a specialist weapon of course! The most stupid rule known to the game...!

 

"So you're saying my 8 foot tall super warrior can't use his giant fist very well?"

 

ON topic though - Personally I'd go Valours and Inferno. Let's you threaten most things and takes advantage of the BA rules.

[NTaW]

To be honest I like both. I get more attacks at higher initiative with the sword, but the power fist hits easily and wrecks almost anything whereas the sword will not hit as often. My rule of cool goes to Fury of Baal, always loved that pistol

I suggest adding digital weapons to anyone wielding Valour's Edge; I assume this was meant to say a fist wounds easier than a sword and that will help you out a bit.

If the pistol is what you think is cool then roll with it, but a power fist on a I5/6 Captain can be a waste of a perfectly fast Marine. If he's your warlord you could end up at I6/7 with the Speed of the Primarch trait and there's also Quickening (Libby, obvs) or Corbulo (if you're going the foot slogging route) as well.

[Jolemai]

Regardless of choice, will it be ready to paint anytime soon?

To be honest I like both. I get more attacks at higher initiative with the sword, but the power fist hits easily and wrecks almost anything whereas the sword will not hit as often. My rule of cool goes to Fury of Baal, always loved that pistol

I suggest adding digital weapons to anyone wielding Valour's Edge; I assume this was meant to say a fist wounds easier than a sword and that will help you out a bit.

If the pistol is what you think is cool then roll with it, but a power fist on a I5/6 Captain can be a waste of a perfectly fast Marine. If he's your warlord you could end up at I6/7 with the Speed of the Primarch trait and there's also Quickening (Libby, obvs) or Corbulo (if you're going the foot slogging route) as well.

Same question applies to you; have you got anything to paint right now? ;)

[Mr Smith]

 

 

Unless you are using a specialist weapon of course! The most stupid rule known to the game...!

 

 

The rule basically exists to curb the power of Power Fists (which were no-brainer choices for a long time) and bring them into line with Lightning Claws (which have a similiar design anyway.)

 

On topic, I say go for the Fist & Fury combination; you say you like the Fury of Baal, which is as good a reason as any to take it.  It's also a combination that doesn't get seen very often, and I'm all for mixing it up when it comes to load-outs.

[Xenith]

Pistols are appallingly pointed, we've seen the cost of Marines drop over several editions, but the cost of upgrades gas remained largely static...if upgrades had followed a similar pattern in reduction off cost we'd see some much more interesting and characterful builds..

 

EDC

 

They went in the right direction with the 3.5 edition dexes, where 1w characters got cheaper stuff, but then that went away again. Hopefully we see a return of this in the vanguard veterans.

 

 

 

"So you're saying my 8 foot tall super warrior can't use his giant fist very well?"

 

Things are scaled down, in the same way that a pistol doesnt actually shoot once per turn, or a bolter twice. It's just easier than having to roll 5-10 dicer per bolter. Naturally, the marine would use his fists, but the 5-6 punches he would make are scaled back to one dice roll. A chainsword and pistol allows more damaging opportunities, so has a slightly better chance to damage, so gets +1 attack.

[Helias_Tancred]

Regardless of choice, will it be ready to paint anytime soon?

To be honest I like both. I get more attacks at higher initiative with the sword, but the power fist hits easily and wrecks almost anything whereas the sword will not hit as often. My rule of cool goes to Fury of Baal, always loved that pistol

I suggest adding digital weapons to anyone wielding Valour's Edge; I assume this was meant to say a fist wounds easier than a sword and that will help you out a bit.

If the pistol is what you think is cool then roll with it, but a power fist on a I5/6 Captain can be a waste of a perfectly fast Marine. If he's your warlord you could end up at I6/7 with the Speed of the Primarch trait and there's also Quickening (Libby, obvs) or Corbulo (if you're going the foot slogging route) as well.

Same question applies to you; have you got anything to paint right now?

Oh yes! I'm working on a terminator and my captain build. Just finished Tycho, He's up on my IG account.

[Red__Thirst]

I will make a case for Relic Blade and pistol of your choice (I went with Hand Flamer myself, admittedly not the most effective weapon, but rule of cool and what-not).  While it does mean he doesn't get to chop at AP:2, it does mean he gets more wounds on target usually, being ST:7 on the charge, while also being able to benefit from the possible master-craft warlord trait as well. 

 

Granted, he does lose an attack overall for using a 2 handed weapon, but I look at wounds generated and would rather have +2 (or +3 on the charge) strength for actually doing damage at the cost of one additional attack.  The more wounds you put on them, the more often they will fail a save, and I've had Valor's Edge whiff hard on me in the past versus even T:4 opponents even with Digital Weapons allowing the re-roll of one to-wound roll.  Where-as with the Relic Blade, my Captain can choke up on the blade being two handed and swing for the fences, often hurting something much more easily that he would otherwise struggle to deal with were he armed with Valor's Edge. 

 

Just my opinion on that.  Take it easy for now folks. :)

 

-Red__Thirst-

[Charlo]

If you are using a captain just as a plain bully, the Relic-Blade is pretty good. Especially against Tau and the like where a 2+ is pretty rare outside of the bigger suits/ commander. Even Eldar don't actually have a 2+ outside of special characters IIRC and you can ID them at at least a similar initiative.

 

Also hand flamers are awesome. AWESOME I SAY.

[CaptainHelion]

If you're taking a relic blade, it's a good opportunity to take a Stormbolter or a Combi-weapon. You're not missing out on an attack from not having a pistol and you get more ranged punch than you would otherwise. With a Stormbolter and the combi portions of a combi-flamer or -melta, you're still able to charge after shooting, and for the other options? Well, you still have krak grenades!

[Charlo]

If you're taking a relic blade, it's a good opportunity to take a Stormbolter or a Combi-weapon. You're not missing out on an attack from not having a pistol and you get more ranged punch than you would otherwise. With a Stormbolter and the combi portions of a combi-flamer or -melta, you're still able to charge after shooting, and for the other options? Well, you still have krak grenades!

 

I think i'd still prefer a pistol. Usually as a combat character you are going to be close enough to shoot an Inferno Pistol/ Hand Flamer and you'll get more than one shot per game.

 

Stormbolter could be a potential for rule of cool though!

[CaptainHelion]

Stormbolters are WELL cool, but they fill a niche that barely exists. Most cases, you're going to want the pistol for the extra attack, or you're going to be happy enough with a bolter to not want to spend 5pts for an extra shot at range, and the ability to assault.

But in the case of a Relic Blade Captain, the ability to assault after shooting is kinda a necessity, so an extra bolt shot and not hampering your attacks in any way sounds kinda good.

[Xenith]

Taking the relic blade also means you can take a storm shield without the no bonus attack penalty.

[Charlo]

Sword and Board baby.

 

I'd wager though that the things that are going to have ap2 will usually also be nasties that have a 2+ themselves, so you'll probably want Valours.

 

It's all a little swings and roundabouts.

[Xenith]

The shield lets him act as a bit of a tank for a unit, also.

[Helias_Tancred]

I settled for my Fury of Baal, and power fist Captain, which is ironically the load out of my first Blood Angel captain when I got into 40k. ... I am tempted by the storm shield and sword, or storm shield and thunder hammer option too!