Objective Secured & Ignores Cover

[aluriel00]

How badly is Ravenwing affected by not having Objective Secured?

How badly are they hurt by someone like Tau with Ignores Cover?

 

Thank you for your opinion.

[Teetengee]

Baleflamers wreck them pretty well, but ignores cover only drops them to better than normal bikers unless it is ap3 or better. Something to keep in mind. Most armies aren't running obsec these days (space marines excepted), so that loss probably won't affect you much either.

[Solrac]

You can counter AP2/3 Ignores Cover/Ignores Jink by having a character or 2 up front with an Invul.

 

If you come up against loads of it you just have to be smart with your deployment, hug LOS blocking terrain or try other things like Outflank.

 

Obsec isn't a massive deal now days but I find it handy to have when playing Maelstrom games.

[ValourousHeart]

The short answer is that objective secured doesn't come up when you are not planning on it being an issue.

 

Objective secured only comes into play when you plan on trying to take objectives without clearing any opposing units.

Most armies plan to clear objectives as part of taking them, at which point it doesn't matter if the unit has objective secured or not.

So it is all really dependant upon what you make your win condition.

 

As for ignores cover.... the best I can say is eh.

Jink is somewhat overrated, if you ask me.

There are far too many drawbacks that don't really outway the advantages.

 

RW is a small elite army that relies on shooting in order to win.

The only RW unit that has an exception to that is RWBK which have some proficiency in CC.

But taking nothing but RWBK means you are weak to AV13-14 and Hoards.

 

Now by all means Jink if there is a chance that everyone in the unit will die.

But your army is far better off shooting at full BS than it is on 6's.

So if you are only expecting to lose 1 out of your 6 bikes then go ahead and take one for the team.

[aluriel00]

Thank you so much for your answers.

 

I am bouncing back and forth between White Scars and Ravenwing. RW gets Darkshrouds and more/better speeders, WS gets command groups with lightning claws and storm shields as well as the 5 grav-gun command group with The Hunter's Eye.

 

I am a close combat player at heart, having come from Blood Angels, and the WS cc abilities keep pulling me back to them.

 

Again, thank you so much for your answers.

[ValourousHeart]

Well RWBK are better than anything the WS can field, except for storm shields.

Storm shield would be nice.

 

Other may think differently, but in my mind WS has very little to do with bikes.

Yeah sure they have an HQ that has an option to take a bike, but he starts on foot.

And yes they have some rules that integrate well with bikes.

But you can build an effective and fluffy WS army and not have a single bike in it.

That is because what makes WS what they are is lightning raids... getting all elements of an army to smash a hole in the enemy line... then pulling back and do it again.

 

Now some people run RW the same way... but when I think of RW, I always imagine the movie Top Gun where the Migs are swarming like hornets around the Tomcats.

Whatever image that springs to mind when you hear a bee buzzy by your ear.

Our HQ starts out on a Jetbike, and has the option to go in a speeder... yeah that's right.

Our bike squads, attack bikes, land speeders and their respective formations all work toward that swarm imagery.

 

If I might make a suggestion... try something different to what you have played before.

If your plan is to run nothing but RWBK, then you might just be better served by WS...

But it could lead to you either being disappointed with how it does in comparison to your BA, or disappointed in how your BA does going forward.

 

Now on the other hand... most people I know don't use more than 1-2 speeders, if any at all, with their BA.

So taking a RW army that consists of a mix of RWBK, Bikes, Attack Bikes, Land Speeders, Dark Shrouds, Vengeance, Dark Talons and Nephilim will teach you new ways to use your BA as well as giving you an alternative way to play that isn't simply charge forward with jump packs vs charge forward with bikes.

[SnakeChisler]

Ignores cover can be a real problem for any army, the ravenwing are especially vulnerable to a heavy dose and if your playing against Tau on a regular basis then your going to need to list tailor.

 

The hunters eye is a pain as is the Pinion demi with the scouts giving IC to nearby units, luckily the Pinion strips obj-sec from the mix & can't be double demied.

 

Meta wise we play maelstrom all the time which stops gun line & death star builds from getting out of hand

 

If you were wanting to run the black Knights as a combat death squad in a highly competitive meta then run them with 2 DA Librarians & an iron hands chapter master with the Gorgon chain as an ally, take a Dark Talon to bomb your opponents death star and stat nerf them before cutting them to pieces.

 

Grey Knights are another good ally that dovetail well with DA the Nemesis strike force being able to start deployment T1.

 

Scars aren't what I would call a combat army, the bike squads are mostly Grav platforms, they have some neat formations & some buffs that help in CC they will have the same problem though to get thier command squad to survive your spending 250 on a chapter master with shield eternal to front it then taking Khan as well so everything gets scout and also beefing up the combat power.

 

DA can play bikes terminators & obj-sec MSU, they ally well with a number of codexes