Charlo Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 Can still snapshot with twin linked. Just gotta fish for them 6s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicodemus Doloroso Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 What's the deal with skies of death? Sorry if this seems a daft question to ask but I don't have the time to foray outside the BA and Inquisition fora. More specifically is skies of death mandatory, ie an errata replacing the BRB rules? Or are they optional? Importantly to the discussion at hand, does that mean Stormravens have lost skyfire or only if you *choose* to use skies of death? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NTaW Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 ^ The general consensus is: talk it out with your opponent. Until it gets rolled into a new core rulebook or Fliers come out in new rule releases including pursuit and agility values it's as optional or mandatory as you want it to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother_Angelus Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 It's a strange situation really. The wording in the book suggests it replaces the flyer rules from "the rules", and the unit entries replace those from their respective books, but they haven't come out and said it in plain english. It'll probably just get bundled in with the rumoured 7.5E clean up, but until then, or FAQ, limbo. They probably don't want to annoy the playerbase by saying an expansion that costs money is mandatory, either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenith Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 I can see a modified Stormraven kit, but cannot see how the price bump will affect sales. They could easily modify it to have wings parallel to the frounds like they did with the latest inteceptor. I'd ideally like to see the idea that was mentioned of replacing the assault ramp with some dakka, and maybe keeping a small transport allowance? Maybe a bomber variant? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bjorn Firewalker Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 I can see a modified Stormraven kit, but cannot see how the price bump will affect sales. They could easily modify it to have wings parallel to the frounds like they did with the latest inteceptor. I'd ideally like to see the idea that was mentioned of replacing the assault ramp with some dakka, and maybe keeping a small transport allowance? Maybe a bomber variant? Allow a Stormraven's rear grapples to carry Thunderhawk cluster bombs instead of a Dreadnought, and specify the Stormraven's Combat Role will be "Bomber" until the bombs are away, after which the Combat Role reverts to Attack Flyer. I did just that for the Medusa Stormraven (so named because the Iron Hands developed it). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riot Earp Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 Tested the Stormwing formation out yesterday with the new death from the skies rule. Flyers got allot better with the new rules. Three is the magic number. While it is expensive with 3 stormravens for blood angels i would take the stormwing as an friendly formation. Ignore cover vs ground targets +1 on jink on the front flyer and +1 bf is extremly good. You can find the Battlereport here. http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/322694-3k-iron-hands-gk-vs-csm-and-daemons/?p=4408635 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 Sounds good Riot! Really, for the amount of Dakka and Maneuverability they bring 3 Ravens is hella strong. The only real concern is that at 6-700pts for three of them his Big Tank LoW territory, or a couple of knights, but in honesty I think 3 Ravens could murder a couple of knights. Hopeing FW sort it out soon because my Caestus Assault Ram doesn't work right now... Though I think an argument could be made to my opponent that the stats should match the Stormwolf, they're very similar in design and function. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riot Earp Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 yeah they also have a little bit more surviveabillity more rockets and Power of the machine ghost. If you are thight on points i would take the stormwing. The angles fury spearheadforce also got a little bit stornger through the Objektive secured the Stormraven get in hovermode. Allot of people with fw flyers are waiting eagerly for an faq or errata problem is that forgeworld is a lame duck when it comes to updates.. So houserules are to make in friendly games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NTaW Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 yeah they also have a little bit more surviveabillity more rockets and Power of the machine ghost. If you are thight on points i would take the stormwing. The angles fury spearheadforce also got a little bit stornger through the Objektive secured the Stormraven get in hovermode. Allot of people with fw flyers are waiting eagerly for an faq or errata problem is that forgeworld is a lame duck when it comes to updates.. So houserules are to make in friendly games. Sadly, the Angel's Fury Formation does not get ObSec. Those Fliers can form a Wing get a wing leader and benefit from attack patterns, but it's being a member of the Air Superiority Detachment that grants ObSec as well as the +/-2 to Reserves with Air Superiority. As a model cannot belong to multiple Detachments/Formations, you have to pick which one your Stormravens belong to. In both instances they still can form a Wing though, since a Flier Wing is a squadron of Fliers and not a Detachment unto itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riot Earp Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 In the book it is stated that models from a flyers wing must be chosen from the same datasheet or be part of the same formation. So for me is the stormwing a formation which i play as an flyer wing in my air superiority detachment. I can add to each battleforged detachment that air sup detachment. why should they say that they can be from an formation although i cannot use the boni from both formation and detachment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 To put simply, I think the storm ravens in the Angel's Fury are three individual ravens, as opposed to three taken as a flyer wing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riot Earp Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 You can put in the stormwing in this detachment and that are also three solo flyer. They must be from the same type or it can be different types from the same formation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NTaW Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 The Stormravens from the Angel's Fury Formation can make up a Flyer Wing (which is a squadron of Flyers), but as per pg. 118 of the BRB under Detachments: no unit can belong to more than one Detachment. Formations are types of Detachments, so those Stormravens can not belong to both the Angel's Fury Formation and the Air Superiority Detachment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riot Earp Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 So i could take the angels fury formation as an asd but i dont benefit from the angels fury formation rules when i want to benefit from the a.s.d.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NTaW Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 You can make the Stormravens in an Angel's Fury Formation a Flyer Wing, that Flyer Wing cannot be included in an Air Superiority Detachment since it is already a part of a Formation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
appiah4 Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 It's either the as heck formation or an ASD, it can't be both. Mutually exclusive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riot Earp Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 Thanks for stating this out. So i don´t can take the stormwing in an fist of medusa auxilary when i want them in the ASD. In an Normal cad it would work. Would i also don´t get the formation boni from stormwing/Angels Fury as it is an formation which is a sort of detachment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NTaW Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 Thanks for stating this out. So i don´t can take the stormwing in an fist of medusa auxilary when i want them in the ASD. In an Normal cad it would work. Would i also don´t get the formation boni from stormwing/Angels Fury as it is an formation which is a sort of detachment? A Flyer Wing can only be in one Detachment or Formation no matter what way you word it. With regards to Stormravens in a Blood Angel army, a Flyer Wing fits in one of three ways when using the DftS supplement: 1) In a CAD/BSF/AD it counts as a single Heavy Support option and has between 2-4 SRs in it and benefits from the wing leader upgrade and attack patterns (very similar to tank squadrons in the SM Codex) as well as the benefits from the Detachment. 2) If you have a Formation with multiple Flyers they may make up a Flyer Wing and benefit from the wing leader upgrade and attack patterns as well as their Formation special rules. 3) You may take a Flyer Wing in your collection that is neither in a Detachment or Formation and put in into an Air Superiority Detachment with both the Flyer Wing bonuses and the ASD bonuses. Unless I'm way off, but this really seems like the way it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Caerolion Posted June 2, 2016 Share Posted June 2, 2016 Actually, I don't see why a stormwing can't be part of an ASD, as the ASD must simply include "Flyer Wings, and each formation in Skies of Death is stated to be a Flyer Wing, just one that provides extra benefits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Unseen Posted June 2, 2016 Share Posted June 2, 2016 I'm just going to pretend the book doesn't exist. Taking away skyfire from about half the flyers in the game, not including rules for all the FW flyers, of which many are very popular and seen often in everything from casual to hyper competitive games, bolting on an entirely new phase just for flyers thats clunky and has the potential to cripple reserve reliant armies that aren't packing mutliple flyers, all lead me to the realization that the book is bad. It's almost as bad as Escalation was on release. But who knows, maybe in 6th months when 8th edition shows up it'll be rammed down our throats just like super heavies were. I'm totally not bitter, I swear. For the rules question, NTaW has it right to my understanding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NTaW Posted June 2, 2016 Share Posted June 2, 2016 Actually, I don't see why a stormwing can't be part of an ASD, as the ASD must simply include "Flyer Wings, and each formation in Skies of Death is stated to be a Flyer Wing, just one that provides extra benefits. You seem to have failed to notice the core rulebook quote I mentioned earlier from pg. 118. I can see that the book says that Flyers from a Formation can become a Flyer Wing and I can see that it says an Air Superiority Detachment can include up to 3 Flyer Wings. I can't for the life of me find text anywhere in the DftS supplement that directly contradicts the core rulebook in this aspect, can you? I mean specifically something like: "A Flyer Wing that is composed of units from a Formation may be taken in an Air Superiority Detachment as well." I'm not interested in contradicting the BRB through inference and neither is my gaming group, there needs to be a concrete allowance for a unit to belong to two different Detachments or Formations. I'm just going to pretend the book doesn't exist. Taking away skyfire from about half the flyers in the game, not including rules for all the FW flyers, of which many are very popular and seen often in everything from casual to hyper competitive games, bolting on an entirely new phase just for flyers thats clunky and has the potential to cripple reserve reliant armies that aren't packing mutliple flyers, all lead me to the realization that the book is bad. It's almost as bad as Escalation was on release. But who knows, maybe in 6th months when 8th edition shows up it'll be rammed down our throats just like super heavies were. I'm totally not bitter, I swear. For the rules question, NTaW has it right to my understanding. Glad someone does Out of curiosity, have you tried playing using the book or have you just read it and made the decision to exclude it from your games based on the content? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted June 2, 2016 Share Posted June 2, 2016 Having yet to read Death from the Skies I'm not in a position to offer an opinion, however, this back and forth is starting to detract from the thread at hand and the OP's initial query. Don't get me wrong, I'm happy for a thread to evolve but should folk wish to debate whether or not the Angels Fury Spearhead Force and DftS are miscible could they take it to the Official Rules forum please. They love that sort of thing down there. Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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