How do you handle WAAC tournaments?

[Blackarmor_redtruth]

While I have a few small options of where to play, the biggest is at a place that has a LOT of folks who use it as a testing ground for regional tournies. I know the game is pretty fluid and you have to read what missions and set up you get and then what your opponent even brings, but it's been a more than a few months since I've played.

 

One list that will be there this upcoming month is:

http://thetyranidhive.proboards.com/thread/51159/1850-list-portland-june-swolves

 

I know a strong shooting ork with dakkajets and necron decurion detachments are there, with at least three bike armies (DA, White Scars, ... other I haven't played vs), and the above Space Wolves.

 

My usual list is along the lines of St Celestine with six hand flamer seraphin, two melta doms with bombs and immo (MM), two exorcist, IK paladin, canoness either with heavy bolter celestians or on quad-gun duty (normally this) behind Aegis line. My SoB are usually flame, melta, and 8-10 strong with one minimum squad with flamer as chaft.

 

My concerns and questions for my fellow Faithful: should I stick to the mission and just try to tie-up units best i can, because my meta is crazy hard hitting and mobile. Everything has mobility it seems. Or go for my normal pincher attack of softening targets with exorcists/IK, then pinch with IK + (1 or 2) Dom squads? I think I'm mostly just nervous as well.

 

The Emperor Protects!

 

 

[Naminé]

Rule number one of victory in 40k: make a battle plan and stick to it, no matter what. Never second guess yourself as you play, and you'll end up winning more often than not.

 

Competitive play is the same thing. Most heavy hitting lists are run by people who are actually quite lacking tactically, or have no confidence in their ability to play beyond following the herd-mentality of the meta. These are the types of players you will always beat if you stick to your plan.

 

A small number of players will be using a WAAC list, and have a tremendous amount of skill. Yet again, stick to a plan and if you don't win, you'll still freak them out for the next time you play :p

[BitsHammer]

I brought a general TAC list and played the missions as best I could.

 

And mocked Marine armies who were supposibly "unbeatable" when I pounded them flat. Good fun.

[Servant of Dante]

I brought a general TAC list and played the missions as best I could.

 

And mocked Marine armies who were supposibly "unbeatable" when I pounded them flat. Good fun.

The only thing in this galaxy that is unbeatable is our faith in the Emperor!

[ValourousHeart]

My usual list is along the lines of St Celestine with six hand flamer seraphin

Sorry just read this and thought but we can only get 2 seraphin with hand flamers per squad.

 

Did I miss a change?

[Servant of Dante]

 

My usual list is along the lines of St Celestine with six hand flamer seraphin

Sorry just read this and thought but we can only get 2 seraphin with hand flamers per squad.

 

Did I miss a change?

You are right, it's 2 per squad.

[Aqui]

Unless Blackarmor_redtruth was using three squads of Seraphim, which seems a little excessive (I love Seraphim, but the points are better used elsewhere)

[Rasp]

I think he meant a squad of six seraphim (2 of which have hand flamers).

 

My advice is stick to the mission. We don't always have the tools to trounce the new flavor of the week. But we are almost never completely out of the fight. If you try to play their game you will come up short.

[Frater Cornelius]

People tend to use easy lists that yield the most results. That is the only way I can explain weird-looking lists placing well. You need to have a good idea what to expect and how to counter. The rest is up to the dice and out of your hand. Stick to your plan and you win ;)

[ElectricPaladin]

I stay away from them. They're no fun.

[Blackarmor_redtruth]

Thank you all for the comments, let me clear some things up. A squad of six seraphim with hand flamers - just the normal two sets. I may have assumed a short hand and caused some confusion, apologies.

 

For tactics, I'm pretty straight forward and KISS, IK threatens as it moves up to Stomp/RCS, exorcist pound from max range, StC and seraphim harass blobs or tie-up units, SoB take objectives and threaten anything within range, doms come in and nuke then advance if needed or bunker on backfield objectives.

 

My weakness I guess is a bit two-tied/two-fold. I know the threatening lists and generally what they do, but I don't play enough to be familiar with important things like say certain Chapter Doctrines. I know just enough to be afraid and that cripples me - Emperor Protects.

 

Edit: why do my texts, written with spaces and paragraphs, always appear as one giant block?

[Spacefrisian]

Rule number one of victory in 40k: make a battle plan and stick to it, no matter what. Never second guess yourself as you play, and you'll end up winning more often than not.

 

 

 

Lol i disagree, i do like Sun Tzu once wrote, work out victory according to how the battle goes, iam like water...but in case of battle sisters that would be more like fire.

[*Furyou Miko]

Prometheum is the best of both worlds - it's a fluid, like water, but it burns like fire. <3

[ValourousHeart]

 

Rule number one of victory in 40k: make a battle plan and stick to it, no matter what. Never second guess yourself as you play, and you'll end up winning more often than not.

 

Lol i disagree, i do like Sun Tzu once wrote, work out victory according to how the battle goes, iam like water...but in case of battle sisters that would be more like fire.

 

Sun Tsu also talked about how a war was won before the armies went to battle, and about how indecision was a greater enemy than your opponent.

So in essence you are both following his advice.

[Drider]

 

Sun Tsu also talked about how a war was won before the armies went to battle

 

Yup, 40k is about 75% list building.

[BitsHammer]

 

 

Sun Tsu also talked about how a war was won before the armies went to battle

 

Yup, 40k is about 75% list building.

 

I disagree. Yes, having a well balanced list is good, but even the stompiest list won't win you games if you use it poorly. I'd say it's only really a third of the game. 1/3 list building, 1/3 Modelling/painting, 1/3 tactics once the army is deployed and everything goes sideways.

[Drider]

I mean just from a playing the game on the table perspective rather than a hobby perspective. So disregarding the 1/3 painting/modeling you're left with 50/50 list building/game play. I'd argue that someone with a good list and average game play would do better than someone with an average list and good game play.

[BitsHammer]

Funny because I would table good lists and average game play.

 

Yes a good list is important but being too confident only in your list and not in various strategies to use that list is how you lose.

[Naminé]

Yes, I feel that the ratio between player skill and lists is actually very difficult to define and flexible, resulting in disagreements such as these. The truth is, we can only look to both strengthen our lists and develop our skills if we want to win.

[Servant of Dante]

Yes, I feel that the ratio between player skill and lists is actually very difficult to define and flexible, resulting in disagreements such as these. The truth is, we can only look to both strengthen our lists and develop our skills if we want to win.

Honestly, the game isn't about winning to me. Most of my favorite games where close ones that I lost. To me, an engaging experience and cool action is far and away more important that winning or losing. That being said, I don't enjoy being on either side of a blow-out/curb-stomp.

 

Ex. Granted, this was a game of 3E, but I was using my BA against my friend's chaos (he was playing Tzeentch, using the 3.5 codex. I love that book.) He started in the middle and had to get to the edge of the table with I think half of his units. In the end it came down to a group of termis in difficult terrain on the last turn of the game. They where 4" from the table edge. They made it, just barely.

 

As a side note, you don't get armour against dangerous terrain in 3E, and it's not just a wound, it flat out kills the model. My Sanguinary High Priest (something like 180pts) jumps out of terrain using his jump pack to confront the termis, and rolls a 1. It was hilarious! I had to check the rules, but yeah, he had 2 wounds, and he was dead! Now I have this image of a 800 year old SM Captian (probably a Ultra Marine) riding his bike through the forest. He hits a bump or a log, and flies off into a tree, killing him in a ball of fire like on Endor in Star Wars. That's ridiculous and fun.

 

And with the AoFs you can get a squad an invuln equal to their armour, so cloak of St. Aspira and that AoF for 2++!

 

Well, I didn't expect to write so much. I apologize for going off topic.

[Drider]

 

Honestly, the game isn't about winning to me. Most of my favorite games where close ones that I lost. To me, an engaging experience and cool action is far and away more important that winning or losing. That being said, I don't enjoy being on either side of a blow-out/curb-stomp.

 

THIS!

 

My two favorite games have been ones that were drawn almost the entirety of the game, both of which came down to turn 7 before one person managed to pull out the win at the last moment to win by one point. I lost both of these games but they are undoubtedly my favorites.

 

Last night I was absolutely destroying a guy at my club who was playing Corsairs. He was just getting really unlucky with his shooting and save rolls. In a 1750 game by the end of turn 3 he only had 3 units left alive, 2 of which only had 2 models left, so we just desided to call it at that because neither of us were enjoying the game and couldn't be bothered playing it out to the inevitable turn 4 tabling. This is an example of the luck he was having, his Wraithknight with double wraith cannon totally wiffed it's T1 shooting phase, got taken down to 1 HP by 12 melta, 3 multimelta and 3 exorcists. The next turn it takes out an Exorcist, takes a lone penitent engine to 1hp and charges it only to die to a heavy flamer in overwatch.

[BitsHammer]

Close games are the best games. Granted pulling out an impossible win (4 models left on the table vs mostly intact Necron Decurion for a personal example) feels nice but not as much as a game where you feel like both of you could have won and it feels properly narrative.

[ValourousHeart]

I agree, the best games in my opinion are the ones that have a spectacular comeback or something funny kept happening that made the crowd around the table roll with laughter.

 

One game I had back in 4th I lost half of my models on the top of turn 1... I couldn't make a save.

And lost the last 2 scoring models in turn 3.

By the end of the game I only had 2 land speeders, but had managed to cause all of his scoring units to be wiped out or falling back.

From certain defeat to a draw.

 

The funny game was Drop IG vs Ravenwing.

The terrain was set up with a huge piece in the center and a couple of small pieces in the corners.

It kinda looked like a motorcross track... So that is how I played the game, I could only make left turns and no one could go back up the track.

After a couple of turns, everyone was rooting for which bike they thought was going to win the race, and the IG were just dirty tricks to sabotage the guys at the head of the pack.

[BitsHammer]

Celestine not coming back to the table began with get a reputation as "tea time with the Emperor". Which she seemed to do 80% of the time. Surprisingly a 50% of getting her back seems far less in my hands.

[*Furyou Miko]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v205/KaguraHakubi/Forum%20Comments/MikoGlasses_zps6c33be16.png No plan survives contact with the enemy.

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v205/KaguraHakubi/Forum%20Comments/MikoUnimpressed-1.png That's fine. We don't have plans.

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v205/KaguraHakubi/Forum%20Comments/MikoSatisfied.png We just have melta guns.

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v205/KaguraHakubi/Forum%20Comments/Miko%20darkglasses_zps7rtgljan.png Melta guns are much better at surviving contact with the enemy.