Taking the Deathguard in close combat.

[misterkho]

Does anyone have experiences with deathguard in close combat they would like to share?

How do the power scythes hold up against astartes? 

A jump packing assault squad with rad grenades..smart move?

[Charlo]

Power scythes are insanely good. They only lose out to white scar glaives or EC spears and even then, Grant more attacks and are consistent in power.

[Caustic63]

I agree with Charlo. A Death Guard character with a Power Scythe and a 2+ armour save is unlikely to lose to any other non-HQ character besides an EC with a Phoenix Spear charging or a White Scar with a Glaive. If you choose to run a Reaping RoW list, a Chaplain with Rad Grenades with a unit of Deathshrouds is absolutely devastating against anything that's not a high AV vehicle (and for those you have MBs).

 

As a side note, Creeping Death is sort of disappointing for how it has negligible benefits for Terminator armed units (which DG seem to like using). The Reaping still seems to be much better thanks to Move Through Cover, Rad Grenades, and easier access to Terminators and Grave Wardens through the HWS & Vets slot swap.

[SkimaskMohawk]

If you run reaping and take a terminator deathstar you're doing it wrong.

 

Jump packers or jet bikes on the other hand, are extremely strong in reaping; a jetbike command squad could put a lot of hurt out with scythes.

[Slips]

I'm going to go ahead and say this:

 

A little while back, we had a little spat between forum member about the Death Guard, The Reaping and how the only way to properly run it is to use Bikes, Jetbikes and Jump Packs and that if you weren't doing that, you were wrong.

 

Let's not have this happen again and avoid telling people "They're Doing It Wrong" because they aren't playing an army the way you would.

[infyrana]

Slips, I remember that, np by me... afterall, if the rules allow for it...

 

I'm also curious about this question.  But how would one safely go about packing an expensive Assault squad (or 2?!) into a Reaping list at anything under 3k points?  If you're only after one melee unit you could always use a Forge Lord for Rad nades, perhaps using PotL and attach him to your preference of a melee geared Veteran or Termi squad ?

 

If anyone has or is able to try such a list / unit, I'm all eyes and ears to learn more :)

[Slips]

The easiest way to run Jump Packs in the Reaping would be to make the most out of Move Through Cover: Hiding In Cover as you jump across the tabletop at ~12" a turn until your pre-charge 6" Move so that you can Re-Roll Charge Distance with the Jump Packs and get Hammer of Wrath. It makes hiding out of LoS that much easier if available.

 

10 man Size is preferable due to footprint and you're still getting 2 Power Weapons + Sarge.

 

Bikes and Jetbikes are easier to use since they can Turbo Boost and have Jink.

 

Since everything has Rad Grenades, Forge Lords, while nice to have anyways, are no longer all that necessary and you can instead take another Support Consul, like a Primus, for FNP or a Praevian, if you felt like it.

 

Still, outside of the Iron Hands, they (Forge Lords) are one of the only ones with Access to a Cyber Familiar which can give them a pretty strong Invulnerable Save (3++ in Cataphractii) if you need a tank. It also lets you reroll failed Characteristic Tests which can be useful on the odd times you fail a Blind Test or whatever.

[DuskRaider]

If you run reaping and take a terminator deathstar you're doing it wrong. not doing it the way I want you to.

 

Jump packers or jet bikes on the other hand, are extremely strong in reaping; a jetbike command squad could put a lot of hurt out with scythes.

 

FTFY, kid.

 

The update to Power Scythes made them and Deathshroud in general much better. Deathshroud are now Terminator slayers with only -1 Initiative.

[1ncarnadine]

So I haven't had time for the hobby for a while now thanks to running a new business, but I've been seriously considering some Death Guard Tartaros Armour for a while now as a little project in my spare time to help me scratch the itch.

 

Anyone have some feedback on the idea? Intended for assaulting an objective and camping it, can sweep, running combi-chem-flamers for potential overwatch and a power scythe on the sergeant. I think a 5-man unit comes out to like 215 before you sprinkle in fists or chainfists or mess with unit size. Maybe in a Pride list, terrain-dense board? I know DuskRaider likes the Cataphractii w/ Pride but I wasn't sure if anyone had messed much with assaulting Tartaros for Death Guard outside of Deathshroud.

 

edit: and one should probably just run a heavy flamer because dang the Tartaros heavy flamer looks really great

[DuskRaider]

Tartaros Terminators definitely have their place now, I'm glad they've been given their own unique set of rules. I'm tempted to make a squad or two specifically for CC, I'm just not a fan of the 5++ in a game where AP2 weapons are a dime a dozen.

[SkimaskMohawk]

I'm going to go ahead and say this:

 

A little while back, we had a little spat between forum member about the Death Guard, The Reaping and how the only way to properly run it is to use Bikes, Jetbikes and Jump Packs and that if you weren't doing that, you were wrong.

 

Let's not have this happen again and avoid telling people "They're Doing It Wrong" because they aren't playing an army the way you would.

 

If we're talking about theme, then sure, its whatever you want. If we're talking about synergy, then a RoW that actively discourages secondary forms of movement (running, flat out, deepstrike) in favor of shooting, is the wrong place for an infantry melee unit in a transport. Especially a melee unit who costs around 500 pts bare bones?

 

The OP was basically "how good are they in combat" and the answer is fairly good....but they have to get there. Making it harder to get there with Termintors, without any real benefit means they're not a good idea for that rite of war.

 

 

If you run reaping and take a terminator deathstar you're doing it wrong. not doing it the way I want you to.

 

Jump packers or jet bikes on the other hand, are extremely strong in reaping; a jetbike command squad could put a lot of hurt out with scythes.

 

FTFY, kid.

 

The update to Power Scythes made them and Deathshroud in general much better. Deathshroud are now Terminator slayers with only -1 Initiative.

 

 

It took me a while to think up the most satisfying answer until I finally decided on this one; the Report Retort into explaining how you're wrong.

 

Melee Terminators need a transport. Spartans are the most common priority thing people build lists to deal with. Not even Dedicated for Shroud. They can't flat out. Their threat is lower than normal. Once dead the melee terminators are even further back up the field. There's no synergy with Reaping. Use Pride if you want Terminator spam to be more effective. 

[misterkho]

Thanks for all the replies fellas;) but let me be more specific;)

If i take jump packing destroyer squads with rad missiles (to get that -1 toughness on units) and follow up with the grave wardens and their poison/toughness test. Can i assume my 2/3 jump packing assaultsquads can handle the world eaters?

[Slips]

The Rad Phage Rule from Rad Weapons only works if the model in question suffered an unsaved wound from one, not the unit. So unless they have 2+ Wounds, Rad Phage in this instance, wouldn't come into play since it would kill the models affected by the rule if they didnt have 2+ Wounds.

 

That, and Rad Grenades only come into play in the turn a unit assaults/is assaulted so is of no use for shooting purposes.

 

These effects stack, however, and if you're allowed the use of the Barbaran Thurible Relic, you could stack a total of -3T for the Assault Phase vs 2+ Wound Models. Useful vs Mechanicum/(G)MC Spam.

[Charlo]

Letsyoudown, if you are going to use Tartaros terminators with combi flamers.... Just use deathshroud. They are literally just that but better in every way!

[Charlo]

I'll bump this a little too... Say if you wanted to get a lot of terminators, but didn't like using Spartans/ dreadclaws and such, is there a good way to foot-slog? One factor is £$ too as those resin chunks o transport are expensive!

 

Would you load up tacs for combat (15-20 dudes, apoth, sarge with artificer and scythe) run in perhaps creeping death for the 5+ in the open and use them as your first wave? Tartaros can run and Deathshroud don't really mind being charged either because of the overwatch and rampage-lite on the scythe. Same goes for Grave Wardens but they are tankier and shootier.

 

Perhaps if you used a Leviathan to deep strike and Mortarian to also advance up the board quick and start mowing things with Silence that could work too...

 

I'm spit balling, but really you'd just need a couple of small units of terms to reach the enemy lines for some real payoff.

[misterkho]

so no on the jump packing assaultsquads? ok ok. Personally i'd stuff the death shrouds in a transport, it'd be faster and safer for them;) Oh and grave wardens? Are they really any good? i find rolls of 5+ to wound marines a bit annoying..

[SkimaskMohawk]

They changed the grave wardens toxin rule to poison 3+ and let them overwatch with death cloud, so they're really good (as are shrouds). The only question is how best to deliver them into short range/CC and what RoW compliments it (if terminators in the face is the main aspect of the list)

[misterkho]

really? where can i find that update?

[Slips]

Updated Book: https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-CA/The-Horus-Heresy-Legiones-Astartes-Age-of-Darkness-Legions

[misterkho]

Yep, that's a huge bonus for the grave wardens..i'll take 10 haha.

[Charlo]

Pride is pretty much amazing for DG, as you can get Terminators in every slot bar Fast Attack, plus Dreadclaws are insanely good.

 

Orbital assault is nice too (teleporting!) but when you can't take any tanks that is a bit more restrictive. Though Dreads/ rapiers in pods help mitigate this of course. No easy access to reserve manip makes it a little unreliable though.

 

The jump packers are totally fine, especially in the reaping with Rad nades and MTC. Keep them safe and they'll do some good work.

[misterkho]

i'm thinking of the following setups: 

death shrouds with HQ and unit of grave wardens walking up in the middle. 2 tacs in rhino going up the flank and using the rhino as cover for jumping destroyers. a big blob jumping assaults right behind the terminator wall to provide assistance where needed. IN the back probably rapiers or dreads to take out armoured units. Maybe not the most adaptive strategy or anything but i do think it's fluffy;)

[Chaeron]

 

Would you load up tacs for combat (15-20 dudes, apoth, sarge with artificer and scythe) run in perhaps creeping death for the 5+ in the open and use them as your first wave? Tartaros can run and Deathshroud don't really mind being charged either because of the overwatch and rampage-lite on the scythe. Same goes for Grave Wardens but they are tankier and shootier.

 

Perhaps if you used a Leviathan to deep strike and Mortarian to also advance up the board quick and start mowing things with Silence that could work too...

 

I'm spit balling, but really you'd just need a couple of small units of terms to reach the enemy lines for some real payoff.

 

I tried this! Except with the Artificer Armour - which now I realise would've been useful for tanking hits in advance. Issue was, tended to already have a better cover save, or the opponent got too close - too quickly. The AA armour and Scythe would be one of the change (over a Power Fist), that I think I'd consider making, if for fluff only. I think weight of numbers works as an asset - so ensuring everyone has that extra BP/CCW, means if you can get a charge in, you're throwing a LOT of dice. Just so happens I can't roll them, but hey :lol: The temptation to split my 20-man squads into two-15s and perhaps add something else with the saved points might also be handy, just for additional scoring too.

 

Tartaros would definitely be a better bet in that regard for movement and overwatch too - and would definitely be something sensible to consider if you're purely slogging.

[Charlo]

Phosphex level word spam incoming - but there is some insight in here, I promise:

 

So you want to foot slog DG? Okay - awesome, the reaping seems perfect for it right? MTC, Rad grenades to aid you in assault even if you lose some numbers? Seems great!

 

The only huge problem I've found is that the reaping enforces a foot slogging list based around heavy firepower, be it far or close ranged. Far being more expensive in points: Flamers vs Culverins for example. But assault can happen and I too want it to happen, those Rad nades turn those tacs into a workable assault unit, but then we have the big problem... Terminators and NO RUNNING.

 

Tartaros (what the DS wear) allows for running, but the reaping does not. So if you truly want to foot slog, it'll be just that, a SLOG. Moving maximum 6" a turn is going to hurt and potentially leave your nice terms stranded. You can't deep strike them, so this leaves a transport. Unless you want more than 5 this leaves a Spartan - something I'm pretty bored of already and I don't even own one :( Though, it is of note that because we can take minimal squads of Deathshroud we can put 4 in a Land Raider with a character, having double the wounds a normal (and usually more expensive) terminator squad would have.

 

Really, against an enemy assault army, you can laugh to high heaven, they will come to you and at the last moment you can move in, douse them in flame and then even happily take a charge. Between shredding overwatch flamers at -1 Toughness and then extra attacks from reaping blow, or forcing disordered charges with Grave Wardens DG don't mind taking the hit.

 

I think, Pride of the Legion might be the way to go with DG in foot slot - we are described as a supremely trained and equipped legion in the fluff so keep to this. Even a minimum two squads of deathshroud as troops is 420pts. For this you get 20 wounds 2+/5++ wounds that can run, sweep, strike at I3 with ap2 in combat and get a nice ranged option in shredding flamers. Alternatively, outside of Pride, 420pts points in Tacs will get you about 20 wounds and a couple of tooled up sergeants, you just have to be more wary of S8/ AP2 templates with your shroud because of them doubling out the wounds, but you do still get a save.

 

So - how do you make it safely across the board? Threats. Lots of them. While very expensive, the combo of Mortarion and a Leviathan in a Pod will answer a lot of these problems. They will both zip up the board or appear in your opponents DZ unexpectedly and attract firepower, then tank it like a boss. Woe betide anything either charges. If you want more pods too, consider a flamer support squad (Heavy flamers take up a heavy slot), with shred you will simply pile on enough dice to make terminator sweat. While against the theme, I'd always consider giving Grave Wardens a Deadclaw. Once among the enemy it will take a LOT to shift them. For megalulz make it a squad of ten with a Primus and Mortarion in a Kharybdis - no one is ever going to expect that, let alone know what the hell to do when it arrives.

 

Phosphex rapiers work too, as you can saturate the board with up to 12 small blasts a turn of dangerous terrain that your dudes don't even care about. The siege breaker tax is there though of course - but he just opens up more phosphex bomb shooting too!

[disease]

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