The WarpGhost Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 Slightly different request for c&c as this is more about a style of army rather than a particular Legion. Looking to get into Horus Heresy (I have Betrayel at Calth and some other models), an army concept I'm toying with is one built around a simple but (hopefully) solid infantry firebase, backed by a dedicated fire support element, and a flexible mobile assault element. Hence the 'Triad'. At the moment this is generic, with no particular Legion rules picked at this stage, although the Thousand Sons, Alpha Legion and Sons of Horus are topping the list of potential candidates (with Imperial Fists as an outsider choice). I'd like some feedback if this concept is even workable as it's been some years since I played 40k let alone HH. Core firebase: Centurion (Cataphractii TDA w/ power sword) 85p 5 Cataphractii Terminators (Chainfist, 2x powerfists) 195p 14 Tactical Marines (Sarge w/ powerfist) 205p 12 Tactical Marines (Sarge w/ powerfist) 185p Fire support: 5 Heavy Support Marines (5x missile launchers) 160p Predator (w/ sponson lascannons) 115p Predator (w/ sponson lascannons) 115p Predator (w/ sponson lascannons) 115p Mobile assault: 10 Veteran Tactical Marines (2x power axes, 2x suspensor missile launchers; sarge w/ powerfist) 285p w/ Rhino 35p 10 Tactical Marines (Extra ccws; Sarge w/ powerfist) 185p w/ Rhino 35p 10 Assault Marines (2x power axes; sarge w/ powerfist) 285p This being said about this as a generic Legion, this has kinda been developed with the Sons of Horus in mind. Whilst they don't have the best rules or great detailed fluff, something about the Sons of Horus keeps catching my imagination (possibly the interesting colour scheme and blunt, no-frills brutish philosophy). Reavers in particular just have a cool feel to them, and are comparable to the Veteran Tacticals/Assault Marines in price and function. But it's certainly not set in stone so don't assume it's inevitable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangaman Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 I like the idea of having your army built in "phases" so you have a core plus an assault/response contingent and a fire support contingent. However, I would suggest narrowing down what units are doing what and where. For example your assault grouping is made of CC Vets in a rhino, a minimum tactical squad in a rhino and then a minimum assault squad (which costs the same as your vets). What if you went with two or three CC vet squads in dreadclaws? They have better assault potential then the tactical squad does AND a better delivery system. Personally I think your centurion and termi squad will be the odd ones out here with no transport, maybe consider taking a cheap siege breaker attached to the Heavy support squad and use the points saved to get a deredeo or bump up your remaining squad numbers. Just food for thought :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newtoncain Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 Art Armor on anything and everything you can. @ 10/pop = great deal.' Run tac squads as 10 or 15 or 20 man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caillum Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 Don't know what you mean about Sons not having the best rules or great detailed fluff... Probably among the strongest Legion rules around since the Age of Darkness Legions update! And they're the protagonists AND the antagonists in the first Black Library books, so they have heaps of insights into their background! :) Anyway... I like the concept you're aiming for! Couple of suggestions for you though: - like Newtoncain said, Artificer Armour is absolutely the BEST upgrade you can buy for every unit sergeant. I consider it mandatory in my list-building, as do many others. - if you're after a Core Firebase, then Tacticals work fine. If they want to be survivable though, attaching an Apothecary (with artificer armour) is advisable. Like Rangaman said, the Cataphractii Terminators won't do a lot though, as they'll get shot to pieces without much chance of getting them into combat, so maybe consider an Assault Transport for them? - Fire Support looks good. Augury scanner (and artificer armour) on the Heavy Support sergeant makes them even better. - taking a 3rd Tactical Squad as a Mobile Assault unit probably isn't worth it. A pair of Veteran Squads, with Sniper, heavy bolters and Rhinos, is a great option though. Again, take artificer armour. ;) Assault Marines are very expensive - with as many Scoring Units as you have, I'd spend the points elsewhere. Some Legion-specific suggestions: - Alpha Legion Veterans are amazing, given the amount of Special Rules you can stack on them. Probably worth taking missile launchers on AL Vets, as Sniper frag missiles are great. Taking power fists & daggers on unit sergeants is also advised. - Sons of Horus could take Reavers instead of Veterans, as they have some great combat benefits. Also, Justaerin are infinitely better than normal Cataphractii, for only a small price increase. - Imperial Fists LOVE bolt weapons - Veterans, Tacticals & Breachers all gain a lot from +1BS. And free Tank Hunters on Heavy Support Squads is awesome. Finally, have you considered taking a Praetor or Delegatus and running a Rite of War? :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The WarpGhost Posted June 8, 2016 Author Share Posted June 8, 2016 Thanks for the suggestions guys! I like the idea of having your army built in "phases" so you have a core plus an assault/response contingent and a fire support contingent.However, I would suggest narrowing down what units are doing what and where. For example your assault grouping is made of CC Vets in a rhino, a minimum tactical squad in a rhino and then a minimum assault squad (which costs the same as your vets). What if you went with two or three CC vet squads in dreadclaws? They have better assault potential then the tactical squad does AND a better delivery system.Personally I think your centurion and termi squad will be the odd ones out here with no transport, maybe consider taking a cheap siege breaker attached to the Heavy support squad and use the points saved to get a deredeo or bump up your remaining squad numbers.Just food for thought I take your point on the terminators, especially ones that can't run, never used them before. I might be missing something (lots of rules everywhere!), what is this Siege Breaker you refer to? The Veteran squad over the Tacticals is a really good point, it really isn't that many more points for a serious offensive power upgrade! Dreadclaws are probably off the table for financial reasons considering I've already got the Rhinos at this stage, but we'll see. There's something to be said for Anvillus Dreadclaws padding out the FA choices for The Black Reaving formations. Art Armor on anything and everything you can. @ 10/pop = great deal.' Run tac squads as 10 or 15 or 20 man. Artificer armour sure does seem popular... Don't know what you mean about Sons not having the best rules or great detailed fluff... Probably among the strongest Legion rules around since the Age of Darkness Legions update! And they're the protagonists AND the antagonists in the first Black Library books, so they have heaps of insights into their background! Anyway... I like the concept you're aiming for! Couple of suggestions for you though:- like Newtoncain said, Artificer Armour is absolutely the BEST upgrade you can buy for every unit sergeant. I consider it mandatory in my list-building, as do many others.- if you're after a Core Firebase, then Tacticals work fine. If they want to be survivable though, attaching an Apothecary (with artificer armour) is advisable. Like Rangaman said, the Cataphractii Terminators won't do a lot though, as they'll get shot to pieces without much chance of getting them into combat, so maybe consider an Assault Transport for them?- Fire Support looks good. Augury scanner (and artificer armour) on the Heavy Support sergeant makes them even better.- taking a 3rd Tactical Squad as a Mobile Assault unit probably isn't worth it. A pair of Veteran Squads, with Sniper, heavy bolters and Rhinos, is a great option though. Again, take artificer armour. Assault Marines are very expensive - with as many Scoring Units as you have, I'd spend the points elsewhere.Some Legion-specific suggestions:- Alpha Legion Veterans are amazing, given the amount of Special Rules you can stack on them. Probably worth taking missile launchers on AL Vets, as Sniper frag missiles are great. Taking power fists & daggers on unit sergeants is also advised.- Sons of Horus could take Reavers instead of Veterans, as they have some great combat benefits. Also, Justaerin are infinitely better than normal Cataphractii, for only a small price increase.- Imperial Fists LOVE bolt weapons - Veterans, Tacticals & Breachers all gain a lot from +1BS. And free Tank Hunters on Heavy Support Squads is awesome.Finally, have you considered taking a Praetor or Delegatus and running a Rite of War? Reavers are one of the things that draws me to Sons of Horus, and are definitely an easy swap in if I go for them! I'm partially banking on Assault Marines getting the price drop that Forgeworld have hinted at if I'm honest (given how they cost the exact same as SoH/UM/NL's superior versions, they should do), but they're also an easy swap for Reavers if I go SoH. I do like the mobility that jump troops offer though Praetor is likely too many points for what I'm trying to squeeze in, but I'd forgotten about the Delegatus TBH. Not sure what Rites though, the generic ones don't seem that great and there are some serious restrictions to the AL/SoH ones. --------------------------- Revised concept: Core firebase: Centurion (Power sword, bolter, artificer armour, refractor field) 87p 15 Tactical Marines (Sarge w/ powerfist, artificer armour) 225p 10 Tactical Marines (Sarge w/ powerfist, artificer armour) 175p Fire support: 7 Heavy Support Marines (7x missile launchers; sarge w/ augury, artificer armour) 215p Predator (w/ sponson lascannons) 115p Predator (w/ sponson lascannons) 115p Vindicator (Extra armour) 130p Mobile assault: 10 Veteran Tactical Marines (2x power axes, 2x suspensor missile launchers; sarge w/ powerfist, artificer armour) 295p w/ Rhino 35p 10 Veteran Tactical Marines (2x power axes, 2x meltaguns; sarge w/ powerfist, artificer armour) 275p w/ Rhino 35p 10 Assault Marines (2x power axes; sarge w/ powerfist, artificer armour) 295p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 Look at the Consul Entry for more info on Siege Breakers and the one I'm going to now Suggest: the Vigilator. If you want a Shooty but still quite choppy HQ, he's your go-to. Helps that he also has a bunch of other snazzy rules to help you out. Also, make sure to read the FAQ found in FWs DL section if you haven't aswell as nabbing he most up-to-date sources for rules: Book5/6, AoD: Legiones and the soon-to-be-updated LA:CAL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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