Damon Nightman Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 I read this short story, Lemartes: Guardian of the lost, recently and wanted to share some thoughts/ask some questions.Anyone else read it? This would contain spoilers from the story, so not sure if I should just openly start talking about it or not....Sorry if this belongs in a different section, I just specifically wanted to speak with the BA brothers about its impact on us. Brief Summary from memory: A planet Sanguinius took during the great crusade is under attack by a chaos warband named the Blood Disciples. They start making it rain blood on the entire world that is making the people go into a mindless blood frenzy. Mordian, Imperial guard, forces are on the planet fighting endless waves of the crazed population. Corbulo, i think, has a vision/dream involving lemartes and the world. When he awakes lemartes, Lemartes tells corbulo he had a similar vision, which corbulo thought impossible while lemartes was in stasis. Corbulo, Capt Castigon, and Lemartes go to the world to help take it back, with corbulo thinking he will find something important, i think. Lemartes deploys with DC and does his thing. As the situation get worse, the BA begin to suffer from the thirst due to the rain/ritual the blood disciples are doing. Corbulo helps with his grail. Lemartes and the DC are still their normal crazy, but aren't really effected by the rain. Corbulo figures that since all the BA in the rain are suffering the thirst, Lemartes is the only one who can lead them on the final assault to stop the Dsiciples. The Mordians also help and remain fairly restrained and resist the rage coming over them. Lemartes, i think, points out how impressive it is or mentions that corbulo should be paying attention to how they are resisting. Chaos summon Skarbrand and massacre the Mordians, but Lemartes comes in with the DC are defeats Skarbrand. I don't think they ever really found anything out besides Lemartes telling Corublo that his experiments weren't working on him and that Lemartes himself was the only thing keeping him from going full crazy. Pretty sure they make it sound like the BA suffered a good bit of casualties while fighting the Disciples at the end, but the disciples all mutated at some point. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323108-lemartes-guardian-of-the-lost-short-story-discussion/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 I don't have time to read it but if it is pertinent fluff to us am happy to have a spoilery summary :) Just use the code to hide it :) [ spoiler] [/ spoiler] But no spaces of course. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323108-lemartes-guardian-of-the-lost-short-story-discussion/#findComment-4416604 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helias_Tancred Posted June 11, 2016 Share Posted June 11, 2016 I read this short story, Lemartes: Guardian of the lost, recently and wanted to share some thoughts/ask some questions. Anyone else read it? This would contain spoilers from the story, so not sure if I should just openly start talking about it or not.... Sorry if this belongs in a different section, I just specifically wanted to speak with the BA brothers about its impact on us. Yes I read it, a month or two ago. Please go ahead with your question or observations. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323108-lemartes-guardian-of-the-lost-short-story-discussion/#findComment-4417040 Share on other sites More sharing options...
brent in Korea Posted June 11, 2016 Share Posted June 11, 2016 I read it too. Nothing like sweet Mordian Guard blood ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323108-lemartes-guardian-of-the-lost-short-story-discussion/#findComment-4417148 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damon Nightman Posted June 11, 2016 Author Share Posted June 11, 2016 So my main thoughts are, in no specific order: - mordians are pretty bad***, for holding out so long and not giving in to the blood rage - I feel like it made the BA look bad/weak for not being able to control it at all without corbulo around. I get we suffer from the flaw, but it seemed to me like any other chapter wouldn't have had an issue especially if some imperial guard could resist. It may have been a specific trap for BA, but i still thought it made us look weak. If it's ever raining blood, don't call BA to help... - unless you are Lemartes who is an absolute beast. If he wasn't so great in it, I would have been pretty upset by our portrayal, but his awesomeness balanced out the other BAs weakness. He took out multiple chaos marines, the chaos lord, fought the chaos chaplain (I think), and took out the blood thirster. - the blood disciples, were they a BA successor that turned? - did corbulo actually make progress with Lemartes or was Lemartes right when he thinks corbulo was making it harder for him? - did corbulo or Lemartes have any revelations at the end that were actually helpful to us with the flaw? Or am I remembering wrong? - it was cool that sanguinius helped conquer that planet before - reading from Lemartes perspective was my favorite part and really made me respect him a lot more. - did he give anyone else the impression that the rage cancels out the thirst once they fall to it, I think he actually thinks it to himself at one point - castigon was a huge disappointment for me, I've always saw him in the Dex and thought he must be cool with the lord adjudicator name, but no. Lemartes judges him the whole time and he can't hold his crap together when blood is in the air. I know I'm oversimplifying the blood rain thing effecting us, but yeah just my thoughts.... I'll add a brief summary of the story in the op if other people want an idea of what happened and don't mind spoilers Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323108-lemartes-guardian-of-the-lost-short-story-discussion/#findComment-4417212 Share on other sites More sharing options...
brent in Korea Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 Spoiler stuff... - the blood disciples, were they a BA successor that turned? They were the 8th company of the Emperor's Wolves chapter - did corbulo actually make progress with Lemartes or was Lemartes right when he thinks corbulo was making it harder for him? I thought it was left ambiguous but Lemartes thought not.. - did corbulo or Lemartes have any revelations at the end that were actually helpful to us with the flaw? Or am I remembering wrong? I don't think there was much to be gleaned from this. - did he give anyone else the impression that the rage cancels out the thirst once they fall to it, I think he actually thinks it to himself at one point Yes, but the Black Rage is pretty much a death sentence... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323108-lemartes-guardian-of-the-lost-short-story-discussion/#findComment-4420842 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helias_Tancred Posted June 16, 2016 Share Posted June 16, 2016 ************************ ********* SPOILERS ********* Yes to the Mordians. Yes to Lemartes, I thought it was a great spotlight on him, and like you I have ample respect for him now. But overall I did not like the story mainly for the points you mentioned regarding the Blood Angels in general. It made Castigon look borderline incompetent, and yes it had a real cheesy feel for the blood rain, our flaw, etc, Like we are weak. Great spotlight for Lemartes, but other than that i was disappointed. ***************************** Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323108-lemartes-guardian-of-the-lost-short-story-discussion/#findComment-4421011 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damon Nightman Posted June 16, 2016 Author Share Posted June 16, 2016 Thanks for the replies! I did really like this story overall, but good to see I'm not the only one who thought we looked incompetent. It makes me hesitant to read other stories about us. I've had my eye on fear to tread and heard good things but idk in worried most of the BA will look stupid somehow and start to turn me away from our fluff. I refuse to read the old BA novels involving Baal being overrun by Fabius's blood fiends that are able to take on all the BA on Baal and all the chapter masters of most of the successors and even Dante and mephiston. Like seriously that is all kinds of disgraceful imo. Also worried that sanguinius will be lame somehow based on in one of the recent hh novels, I read sanguinius and curze come face to face and sanguinius lets him leave to save azkellon. I didn't read this myself but the comments I was reading made sanguinius sound like a :cuss Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323108-lemartes-guardian-of-the-lost-short-story-discussion/#findComment-4421407 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted June 16, 2016 Share Posted June 16, 2016 I've heard that before. Apparently it's implied that they both (Sanguinius and Kurze) sort of know that a battle between them would last an eternity as they both have pretty insane foresight abilities. It would be a never ending stale mate until they were both destroyed as the other could see what the other was planning in an eternal cycle. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323108-lemartes-guardian-of-the-lost-short-story-discussion/#findComment-4421430 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damon Nightman Posted June 16, 2016 Author Share Posted June 16, 2016 I get that kinda, but idk. The lion and kurze have fought a few times and are about to fight in the new book that will "show who the real winner is" I don't know the specifics but kurze should theretically have a huge upper hand with the foresight, but the lion holds his own afaik. So is the lion just an amazing fighter to keep up with kurze even without foresight? Where sanguinius even with foresight could only match kurze? In other words my probably completely invalid interpretation of that is, the lion is a more skilled fighter than both kurze and sanguinius since he can keep up with kurze who can see what is going to happen. And it makes sanguinius seem a little soft to me. The lion is doing whatever he can to find and fight kurze while sanguinius let him go because it would have been a stalemate possibly? Sanguinius is supposed to be one of the best primarchs at fighting, but can only stalemate kruze and doesn't even really try to fight him. I want to see a vengeful angel that would never let a traitor go even when he thinks he might lose! Especially after the demons incident... Rant over lol Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323108-lemartes-guardian-of-the-lost-short-story-discussion/#findComment-4421516 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafen IX Posted June 16, 2016 Share Posted June 16, 2016 Honestly I share your opinion in the main, however I don't believe Sanguinius was really fighting to kill. He is still recovering both mentally and physically from Signus. No spoilers but he kicks ass! Personally I believe he still viewed Konrad as both being abit pitiful and having the empathy towards his situation. Sanguinius is constantly referred to as one of the best fighters, with only Horus and Angron being considered by the populace as his equals. Remember it is both his noble soul, kind heart and superlative fighting skills that makes him the badass we admire. R Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323108-lemartes-guardian-of-the-lost-short-story-discussion/#findComment-4421602 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damon Nightman Posted June 16, 2016 Author Share Posted June 16, 2016 Thank you for that interpretation! Makes me feel better about my previous concerns Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323108-lemartes-guardian-of-the-lost-short-story-discussion/#findComment-4421636 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helias_Tancred Posted June 16, 2016 Share Posted June 16, 2016 I would love to see a listing of the Primarchs according to their assumed martial prowess from novels, novellas, etc. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323108-lemartes-guardian-of-the-lost-short-story-discussion/#findComment-4421640 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafen IX Posted June 16, 2016 Share Posted June 16, 2016 So far to my knowledge, I'm an avid reader of the series. Admittedly of mainly the loyalist side. Corax views Angron as the best followed by Horus and Sanguinius. Lorgar prophesies that only Horus or Angron have a chance of defeating Sanguinius in full rage mode. The white scars legionaries view the Angel Sanguinius as mightiest in combat. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323108-lemartes-guardian-of-the-lost-short-story-discussion/#findComment-4421658 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafen IX Posted June 16, 2016 Share Posted June 16, 2016 As an aside this is almost a direct quote, 'What of Signus Prime' (Horus) 'I won't speak further of that fools endeavour there are greater matters' (Lorgar) 'What could possibly be a greater matter than the Angel at this stage of the game?' Horus 'Almost anything, Guilliman, the Khan (other examples), wars we can actually win.' I love that bit, Horus views Sanguinius as the biggest threat to his heresy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323108-lemartes-guardian-of-the-lost-short-story-discussion/#findComment-4421661 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damon Nightman Posted June 16, 2016 Author Share Posted June 16, 2016 I didn't realize you could get HH novels so cheap. I thought they were all like hardbacks, i just found out you can get them in paperback for $10 lol. I just always read so much online about people complaining that the prices of the books are too high and how they couldn't afford to read them. Very foolish of me to believe them... and not use common sense haha. That's awesome Rafen. It also sounds like Lorgar doesn't even think they have a chance to win against him, at least at signus. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323108-lemartes-guardian-of-the-lost-short-story-discussion/#findComment-4421681 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenith Posted June 16, 2016 Share Posted June 16, 2016 I love that bit, Horus views Sanguinius as the biggest threat to his heresy. Indeed, it took a thousand years of constant war and gaining favour from the chaos gods to bring Horus to the level where he could beat Sanguinius (with ease, but still be weaker than the emperor). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323108-lemartes-guardian-of-the-lost-short-story-discussion/#findComment-4421685 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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