How to make Assault phase better

[Panda_Saurus_Rex]

I've been thinking lately about how a potential change to the assault phase that would make the Blood Angels a force to be reckoned with once again.

 

What if BA could chain assaults together? Say if I have a squad of Death Company that successfully charges Unit A and completely destroys them. Instead of a consolidation roll, what if I could just then declare and execute another charge? Each enemy unit would still get their respective Overwatches, albeit still only limited to one overwatch per phase (looking at you Tau). 

 

Seeing as how I still have to get my troops into charge range, and an enemy still gets to overwatch, I really don't see this as potentially game breaking; it just brings CC armies out of the dirt.

 

 

Please note that I started playing during 7th edition so I do not know if this has been done before and how it actually plays out. Any thoughts?

[Charlo]

This used to be how the rules worked back in 3rd edition!

 

We ran Rhinos that we could move 12, disembark and then charge. If we won the assault we could sweeping advance or consolidate. If we touched an enemy unit it counted as charging... I think. It's a little hazy.

 

Would actually be a pretty Damn good rule for us.

[NTaW]

I would think you'd have to limit it to Death Company and attached Chaplains only, since it could be pretty darn powerful with a bunch of our beatstick ICs attached.

[Frater Antodeniel]

Solutions :

 

- Blood Angels / Flesh Tearers Detachment Benefit : Rhino and Razorback have the Assault Vehicle Special rule.

 

- Giving Blood Angels some formations that would allow Jump Pack units (Assault/Vet/Assault TDA/DC with Jump Pack/Sanguinary Guard) to Assault the turn they Deepstrike.

 

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2 rather well Balanced solutions and fluff coherents. (The first i think, would be the one that could clearly make Blood Angels stand aside other Astartes forces, notably those, like the Spaces Wolves that are too, known for their Assault Strategy/Tactics.)

[Quixus]

- Blood Angels / Flesh Tearers Detachment Benefit : Rhino and Razorback have the Assault Vehicle Special rule.

I wouldn't tie that to certain detachments. It makes little sense that other units in the army make disembarking from a rhino easier.

 

- Giving Blood Angels some formations that would allow Jump Pack units (Assault/Vet/Assault TDA/DC with Jump Pack/Sanguinary Guard) to Assault the turn they Deepstrike.

Again, fundamentally changing how a single unit works by adding other units makes little sense to me.

I would go a different route: add 5th Ed Heroic Intervention to Jump Packs and (assault) TDA.

[Dont-Be-Haten]

The main problem you have with consolidating into another combat is what use to happen in fantasy warhammer. You have really killy units, that allow you to sweep an entire half of the board in combat, you can also lock into combat for multiple turns within your opponents deployment and never get shot at. As awesome as it would be that's not the way to fix the assault.

They should allow assault out of rhinos/razorbacks/non assault transports but only as a disordered charge, if you assault out of an assault vehicle or open top you count as charging as normal, or another positive game mechanic. It should also be available to assault from outflank, as that was very powerful move for assault based armies that didn't exactly break the game, in 5th edition that they removed. 

Another option would be the Heroic Intervention from 5th edition where you can still assault, or shoot/run, but not both. 

Yet another option would be to make the death masks negate overwatch, and simply reduce the WS/I of all models down to 1 or -2 down to a minimum of 1 in the same way banshee mask and exarchs work for Eldar. Seriously, they cause fear, which doesn't matter in the game as it stands, but allow for units to assault without being hit with tons of over watch, and on 3s would also really help.

Continued wish listing, I'd love for WS1 to actually mean something, like you swing against WS4, 5, you gotta hit on 5s 6+ against WS1 you have to hit on 6s. And anything more than 5 levels below your weapon skill allows you to hit on 2s. 

[Charlo]

The main problem you have with consolidating into another combat is what use to happen in fantasy warhammer. You have really killy units, that allow you to sweep an entire half of the board in combat, you can also lock into combat for multiple turns within your opponents deployment and never get shot at. As awesome as it would be that's not the way to fix the assault.

 

I'm inclined to agree. We should limit the chain combats to one unit (the DC) and even then, it feels too far in the other direction.

 

They should allow assault out of rhinos/razorbacks/non assault transports but only as a disordered charge, if you assault out of an assault vehicle or open top you count as charging as normal, or another positive game mechanic. It should also be available to assault from outflank, as that was very powerful move for assault based armies that didn't exactly break the game, in 5th edition that they removed. 

 

I'd rather we didn't get assault Rhinos than make them disordered. It negates all of our assault benefits and is a direct contrast to our existing rules. Considering how the Eldar or C:SM play we don't need a down-side.

 

 

 

- Blood Angels / Flesh Tearers Detachment Benefit : Rhino and Razorback have the Assault Vehicle Special rule.

I wouldn't tie that to certain detachments. It makes little sense that other units in the army make disembarking from a rhino easier.

 

- Giving Blood Angels some formations that would allow Jump Pack units (Assault/Vet/Assault TDA/DC with Jump Pack/Sanguinary Guard) to Assault the turn they Deepstrike.

Again, fundamentally changing how a single unit works by adding other units makes little sense to me.

I would go a different route: add 5th Ed Heroic Intervention to Jump Packs and (assault) TDA.

 

 

This is the way the game is going. Formations unlock extra rules. But I'd say it does make sense. Just look at the RG VV Assault on Deep Strike formation. The scouts move in first and send accurate information to the Vanguard so that they can deep strike and assault with impunity. Fluffy and powerful.

[Tyriks]

I think there should just be an upgrade to rhinos or razorback to make them assault vehicles for a cost. I don't know how much I think it should cost, but probably 15-25 points. If that was an option, I'd definitely take it sometimes but I would still pass on it a lot, too.

[Frater Antodeniel]

I think there should just be an upgrade to rhinos or razorback to make them assault vehicles for a cost. I don't know how much I think it should cost, but probably 15-25 points. If that was an option, I'd definitely take it sometimes but I would still pass on it a lot, too.

 

I don't know why i didn't though of it, but it would really be a nice idea, that could accord both the pro and cons. This way it would still be a Blood Angels particularity.

 

As another counter part, one cannot take both the Lucifer Engine and the Assault Vehicle, but must have to choose only one. (Lucifer Engine would be likely 5 points cost, while the Assault Vehicle would rather be 15 points.)

 

A really nice idea, that i may use, to, once again, upgrade my Flesh Tearers Supplement quality. I will look at how make this work right.

[Panda_Saurus_Rex]

I think there should just be an upgrade to rhinos or razorback to make them assault vehicles for a cost. I don't know how much I think it should cost, but probably 15-25 points. If that was an option, I'd definitely take it sometimes but I would still pass on it a lot, too.

 

 

I would re-work the entire point systems of my armies to incorporate this for a points cost. 

[Charlo]

 

I think there should just be an upgrade to rhinos or razorback to make them assault vehicles for a cost. I don't know how much I think it should cost, but probably 15-25 points. If that was an option, I'd definitely take it sometimes but I would still pass on it a lot, too.

 

I don't know why i didn't though of it, but it would really be a nice idea, that could accord both the pro and cons. This way it would still be a Blood Angels particularity.

 

As another counter part, one cannot take both the Lucifer Engine and the Assault Vehicle, but must have to choose only one. (Lucifer Engine would be likely 5 points cost, while the Assault Vehicle would rather be 15 points.)

 

A really nice idea, that i may use, to, once again, upgrade my Flesh Tearers Supplement quality. I will look at how make this work right.

 

 

Why would we need to choose? Screw that.

 

Other armies get to be OP so we should too.

[Quixus]

This is the way the game is going. Formations unlock extra rules. But I'd say it does make sense. Just look at the RG VV Assault on Deep Strike formation. The scouts move in first and send accurate information to the Vanguard so that they can deep strike and assault with impunity. Fluffy and powerful.

I get it that formations unlock extra rules making the whole greater than the sum of their parts. What I do not like is extra rules that do not require the units to attack together or otherwise act as a whole. Just the presence of other units is enough in many cases.

The vindicator squadron that uses a bigger badder blast when all three vehicles shoot at the same target is a good example how formations should work IMHO.

 

Fluffwise the idea behind the Skyhammer Annihilation Force probably is that the devastators can move and shoot properly because they have extra time to set up their weapons due to the assault marines hurtling towards the enemy units the devastators want to shoot at. The ASM can assault after deep strike because the devastators are pinning the enemy down, giving the ASM extra time to orient themselves. However the rules do not require such coordinated actions but simply give the units extra special rules.

 

That makes little sense to me. Why wouldn't devastators in drop pods and ASM with jump packs always have those abilities?

 

Regarding the Shadowstrike Kill Team, the reroll on scatter makes sense, because the scouts have reconnoitred the area and guide them in. Allowing the Vanguard Veterans to assault after deep strike no matter where they land does not.

[Dont-Be-Haten]

As broken as it was, I'd love the 6" rule, where your opponent couldn't cosolidate if you had a into within 6" of one falling back, that would be great, but they would have to fix ATSKNF.