XIIth Legion "World Eaters" - Crimson Path Pods

[em_en_oh_pee]

HQ:

Khârn

Gorechild

[190]

 

Gahlan Surlak

[110]

 

Elites:

(5) The Red Butchers

2x Twin Power Axes

Chainfist, Power Axe

2x Twin Lightning Claws

Anvillus Dreadclaw

[395]

 

(5) The Red Butchers

2x Twin Power Axes

Chainfist, Power Axe

2x Twin Lightning Claws

Anvillus Dreadclaw

[395]

 

(2) Apothecary

Artificer Armor

[110]

 

Troops:

(18) Tactical Squad (Khârn, Apoth)

Chainaxes, Bolt Pistols, Vexilla

Power Fist, Artificer Armor

[265]

 

(19) Tactical Squad (Apoth) [inductii]

Chainaxes, Bolt Pistols, Vexilla

Power Fist, Artificer Armor

[275]

 

(19) Tactical Squad (Surlak)

Chainaxes, Bolt Pistols, Vexilla

Power Fist, Artificer Armor

[275]

 

Fast Attack:

Xiphon

[205]

 

Heavy:

Kharybdis Assault Claw (Khârn's Squad)

[260]

 

Kharybdis Assault Claw Surlak's Squad)

[260]

 

Kharybdis Assault Claw (Inductii Squad)

[260]

 

[3000]

 

Simple, straight-forward list. Xiphon does AA work, some anti-tank too. Kharybdis can pop light armor and help with AA work. The main antitank is all infantry-based, which I know is not wise. I had thought about twin Lightnings with Kraken as a means to help against Spartans, but the two TL Las and Missiles on the Xiphon aren't bad and it is hell on other aircraft. A lot of improved FNP due to dropping into enemy deployment and IWND on the characters. Not sure it is "competitive", but I hope it won't get beat too easily. 

Thoughts?

[Guiltysparc]

I would throw Surlak in Khârn's squad instead of the regular apothecary...or possibly reshuffle some points to put Khârn/surlak with a unit of red butchers in one of the kharybdi and then buy a dreadclaw for one of the tac squads.  The Khârn/Surlak/Butcher unit is pretty mean.

[Flint13]

^I'd keep Khârn and Surlak out of the Butcher units.

 

Red Butchers are plenty fighty on their own. I feel like adding both of your character models to a pretty small unit gives your opponent a super easy decision with target selection on top of shutting down Khârn's chance at sweeping a squad after a combat.

 

Keeping Khârn, Surlak and two red butchers in four separate unit spaces out your hitting power very well and allows you to force your opponent to choose between several choices that won't pan out well for him.

 

Second, Em, are you set on taking a Xiphon? I ask Bc with this list it's going to be a large part of your anti-tank. Xiphon are alright at medium armor, but struggle to do much of anything against heavy armor or super heavies. If it's the only flyer you're taking, I'd make it a lightning with kraken penetrators instead. It allows you to blow a enemy super heavy into its component bits, which you're really going to struggle with just a Xiphon and a couple chainfists.

[Fangbanger]

Drop pod lists are hard to make work. Big issue you is lack of fire power and second issue is only have 3 units in on turn one and not knowing when the others will turn up

 

Having jink on the pods will help but they will have to take a lot of shots

[Guiltysparc]

^I'd keep Khârn and Surlak out of the Butcher units.

 

Red Butchers are plenty fighty on their own. I feel like adding both of your character models to a pretty small unit gives your opponent a super easy decision with target selection on top of shutting down Khârn's chance at sweeping a squad after a combat.

 

Keeping Khârn, Surlak and two red butchers in four separate unit spaces out your hitting power very well and allows you to force your opponent to choose between several choices that won't pan out well for him.

 

I've used Khârn/Surlak with butchers and despoilers and i'm honestly not sure which i like better.  The thing with the butchers is that the whole unit doesn't get pasted by AP2/3 weapons.  When running them with despoilers you have to be a little more chosey about who you target, a couple thunder hammer/power fist terminators can ruin your day quick since you dont get saves of any kind other than Kharns invuln.  You can mitigate that a bit with terminators due ot their invuln.  Not being able to sweep is a bummer though for sure.

 

I would also argue that surlak should always be in your most killy unit so that your most killy dudes get backed up by his 4+ fnp.  He isn't very killy byhimself so I dont consider him when looking at spreading my threat around (which, as a general tactic, is a 100% must for assault armies).  

[em_en_oh_pee]

Second, Em, are you set on taking a Xiphon? I ask Bc with this list it's going to be a large part of your anti-tank. Xiphon are alright at medium armor, but struggle to do much of anything against heavy armor or super heavies. If it's the only flyer you're taking, I'd make it a lightning with kraken penetrators instead. It allows you to blow a enemy super heavy into its component bits, which you're really going to struggle with just a Xiphon and a couple chainfists.

 

I mentioned in the post that twin Kraken Lightnings would probably be more useful. One seems too little, two might actually get the job done. But that would take some tinkering in points. 320 vs 205. 

 

The big issue, beyond the cost of the list that is really just killing my (and my wallet), is that I have no true mobility once I land and without standard drop pods of any variety to bolster my count, I am landing 3 on T1. That is not a lot. Not enough, really. Especially since I am dropping in front of the enemy's whole army, most likely. That proves a major issue and I think is why the Kharybdis is just not viable to build around, even with its increased capacity. 

 

I am working on an armored variety, with Spartans over Kharybdis and Rhinos over the Anvillus, plus a Deredeo for AA work over the Xiphon. Possibly a Typhon or a dedicated tank killer LoW, too. It is in the tinker phase, but I have already priced it out a bit and it is $200 or so less than the pod list and just all around better. Sadly, it basically means I should skip the Crimson Path and go for the Berserker assault for Hatred.

 

Oh well, I tried to make Crimson Path work. :D

[Flint13]

Honestly, I've been playing Berzerker Assault since before the red book and Retribution updates.

 

I've consistently found hitting twice as hard on 3/4s of the table consistently wins out over taking 1/3 less wounds in 1/4 of the table.

 

But... I do like big bunches of Inductii and Khârn delivered via multi-Spartan armored columns.

[Guiltysparc]

Ya, i think BA is the all around superior ROW compared to CP.  CP might shine more in certain missions or narrative settings where you need to take/hold objectives that are in enemy deployment zone, but i would take BA as a default every time.

[Fangbanger]

I think a strong hammer and anvil works best with our legion and might offer what you are looking for

 

I've been playing lately with Spartans and drop pods, using the kharybdis, and anvilus (to make up the 3rd pod, nothing fancy) and a cc dread of some kind (Levi or Cortus points dependent)

 

Gives much more versatility and plenty of threat from all angles with the pods having to be dealt with first by your openent as the tanks roll up

 

Season your spare heavy slot (if the Levi is not taken based on 1x Spartan, 1 X kharybdis) to taste but haveing the lascanons on the Spartans I generally find enough but sicarans of either variant can be nice

 

I really think this is the best way to run our legion as its strong on getting units into combat quickly, plenty of mobility and threats from all areas of the board

[em_en_oh_pee]

I think a strong hammer and anvil works best with our legion and might offer what you are looking for

 

I've been playing lately with Spartans and drop pods, using the kharybdis, and anvilus (to make up the 3rd pod, nothing fancy) and a cc dread of some kind (Levi or Cortus points dependent)

 

Gives much more versatility and plenty of threat from all angles with the pods having to be dealt with first by your openent as the tanks roll up

 

Season your spare heavy slot (if the Levi is not taken based on 1x Spartan, 1 X kharybdis) to taste but haveing the lascanons on the Spartans I generally find enough but sicarans of either variant can be nice

 

I really think this is the best way to run our legion as its strong on getting units into combat quickly, plenty of mobility and threats from all areas of the board

 

I like that idea. I just worry that the stuff will get wiped before my armor rolls in, while an all-armor army will arrive mostly intact via target saturation. Going to have to debate on it a bit, because I am in love with the Kharybdis and barely need an excuse to get one (ONE, not three!). I am firmly set on the Zerk Assault though. If Crim Path allowed normal pods, it would be a lot better, but c'est la vie.

 

Thanks for the awesome input everyone! I will have a few more lists to post (World Eaters and some Knights as well) as I get working on my 30k stuff finally after many, many years of collecting. :D

[Fangbanger]

Yeah I love the kharybdis too, I only have 1..!

 

But that and a dread dropping down can take a lot of fire power. 4+ jink on the kharybdis and 5+ shrouded on the dread pod plus flare shielded Spartans equals a LOT of resilience

 

What you put in each is up to you!

[Guiltysparc]

I think a strong hammer and anvil works best with our legion and might offer what you are looking for

 

I've been playing lately with Spartans and drop pods, using the kharybdis, and anvilus (to make up the 3rd pod, nothing fancy) and a cc dread of some kind (Levi or Cortus points dependent)

 

Gives much more versatility and plenty of threat from all angles with the pods having to be dealt with first by your openent as the tanks roll up

 

Season your spare heavy slot (if the Levi is not taken based on 1x Spartan, 1 X kharybdis) to taste but haveing the lascanons on the Spartans I generally find enough but sicarans of either variant can be nice

 

I really think this is the best way to run our legion as its strong on getting units into combat quickly, plenty of mobility and threats from all areas of the board

 

So much this.  Our legion loves a good hammer and anvil.  I use a spartan and drop pod leviathan combo and it has worked well for me.

[em_en_oh_pee]

 

I think a strong hammer and anvil works best with our legion and might offer what you are looking for

 

I've been playing lately with Spartans and drop pods, using the kharybdis, and anvilus (to make up the 3rd pod, nothing fancy) and a cc dread of some kind (Levi or Cortus points dependent)

 

Gives much more versatility and plenty of threat from all angles with the pods having to be dealt with first by your openent as the tanks roll up

 

Season your spare heavy slot (if the Levi is not taken based on 1x Spartan, 1 X kharybdis) to taste but haveing the lascanons on the Spartans I generally find enough but sicarans of either variant can be nice

 

I really think this is the best way to run our legion as its strong on getting units into combat quickly, plenty of mobility and threats from all areas of the board

 

So much this.  Our legion loves a good hammer and anvil.  I use a spartan and drop pod leviathan combo and it has worked well for me.

 

Can't do that with Crimson Path easily, so I would have to opt for BA. Not being able to use DDPods is killer on Path lists, but I get it. They don't want it to be easy or cheap to be in the enemy deployment.

 

I posted an all-armor list because I think it would be the most rewarding to play and definitely is more affordable for me. Let me know what you fine folks think, please.

[Guiltysparc]

I don't suscribe the notion that drop pods are exlcuded due to the immobile thing, but i won't get into that since its been done to death already.

 

edit:  you could put the leviathan in a khrybdis if you wanted.  They can take one as a DT so you wouldnt lose an HS slot.

[em_en_oh_pee]

I don't suscribe the notion that drop pods are exlcuded due to the immobile thing, but i won't get into that since its been done to death already.

 

edit:  you could put the leviathan in a khrybdis if you wanted.  They can take one as a DT so you wouldnt lose an HS slot.

Well, it says "immobile" and I honor that. But I will tell you, if it wasn't there, standard Pods would make the list so much more viable.

 

As for the Leviathan in Kharybdis.... that is like 500+ points. Is that worth it? Not sure. 

[Guiltysparc]

Leviathans are always worth it! Lol

 

Seriously though, they look awesome and can kill anything.