2500 DA Double Demi

[Morticon]

Hey guys, so, I have an annual event called the 40k Veteran's which is a very grueling, complex tourney.  It uses a system of primary, secondary and tertiary objective capture as well as a heavy composition, painting and conduct score.  

 

The top 3 or so positions are almost always players that dont have the most game-breakingly optimised lists, but incredibly high composition lists that manage to do well in the games.  

Battle points are out of 180, composition 60, conduct 30 and appearance 30 for a total of 300.  
 

I've always gone in with full paint score and full comp, and have won the competition 5 of 6 times now. 

This time, i'm looking to have someone else take the title so i'm going in with a 0 comp list. 

Having said that, I fully intend to smash people hard and make the top players struggle to get to the top :P Yes, i'm being a bit of a bully.  I was going to go with a null deploy raven guard list, but its too much admin, and too much additional painting.  So, i'm taking an extended version of what I will be taking to our SA National 40k competition in September. 

This is what i'm looking at:

Inquisitor Corteas 
Librarian - Force Stave
Master - Mace, auspex, artificer armour
Chaplain - auspex

Dread - MM, HF
Pod
Dread - MM, HF
Pod

5x Tac - MG, Cmbi-MG
-Pod
5x Tac - GG, Cmbi-GG
-Pod
5x Tac - MG, Cmbi-MG
-Razor - TLAC
5x Tac - FL
-Razor - TLPG, LC
5x Tac - GG
-Razor - TLPG, LC
5x Tac - MG

-Razor - TLPG, LC

5x AsM - 2FL
-Pod
5x AsM - FL
-Razor TLAC

5x Dev - GC, MM
-Rhino 
5x Dev - GC, MM
-Rhino 

Raven Wing Support
-Dark Shroud 
-Speeder - MM, HB
-Speeder - MM, Typhoon
-Speeder - MM, Typhoon

Skyhammer (UM Tactics)

5x Dev - 3GC
-Pod
5x Dev - 2GC
-Pod

5x AsM - JP
5x AsM - JP


That's it.  Simple.  Effective.  Does what it says on the box.  
Capable of taking all the heavy hitters in my meta.

 

Thoughts?

[Jolemai]

Always a fan of the grav/melta split units but they never seem to do that much for me. What mileage do you get out of them? Why not do this on the Skyhammer too?

Where are the ICs going?

Why is this zero comp? Is it due to all the multiples? Are they missions the same from last year?

[Morticon]

^_^ 

Double Demi lists cap out at 30 points.  Then, there are negatives for no full squads of heavies, troops, elites and fast, as well as troops not being the majority points. 

As for missions, there are small tweaks, but very, very similar.  

Maelstrom is primary in 1, and secondary in 3. The rest of the primaries are the same.  

 

(side note; The Veteran's Strike Force detachment has some crazy good bonuses including access to a vortex grenade). 

[Morticon]

 

 

Always a fan of the grav/melta split units but they never seem to do that much for me. What mileage do you get out of them? Why not do this on the Skyhammer too?

Where are the ICs going?

The grav melta are mainly for versatility in the rhino-borne units. They are "ok" so far.  

Nothing incredible.

I often put corteas in here, so i can deal with multiple threats - either vehicular, or otherwise.

 

 For the skyhammer they're primarily for WK death squads and i prefer to max grav there.  

 

 

As for the ICs, last game I put them all in an uber squad with the flamer assault guys.  I may mix them up though, depending on context/situation..  

[PhilB]

Doesn't seem like your CM has a good place to fit in with his melee theme.

I'd be tempted to drop his artificer armour & mace and keep him bare bones with the auspex, or drop the auspex and give him a combi-weapon. Same with the Chaplain (combi-weapon).

No 5 grav gun toting command squad with the sacred standard?

With the points from the CM upgrades I'd put a combi-flamer in each assault squad and have them both in pods, I'd probably change the dreadnought's multi-melta's to TL heavy flamers too, a single 3+ for the MM is a lot to rely on and you'll probably only get 1 chance before the Dread is taken out.

With 2 dreads (loaded with flame), 2 assault squads (loaded with flame) and the Skyhammer coming in turn 1 I'd also be tempted to drop something to bring a Librarius Conclave in via a pod (perhaps with the grav command squad) on turn 1 as well. With Seed of Fear going off right in the heart of the enemy army and all that output on that alpha strike you'd probably route a large chunk of the enemy on turn 1.

[Morticon]

Doesn't seem like your CM has a good place to fit in with his melee theme.

I'd be tempted to drop his artificer armour & mace and keep him bare bones with the auspex, or drop the auspex and give him a combi-weapon. Same with the Chaplain (combi-weapon).

No 5 grav gun toting command squad with the sacred standard?

 

With the points from the CM upgrades I'd put a combi-flamer in each assault squad and have them both in pods,

 

I'd probably change the dreadnought's multi-melta's to TL heavy flamers too, a single 3+ for the MM is a lot to rely on and you'll probably only get 1 chance before the Dread is taken out.

With 2 dreads (loaded with flame), 2 assault squads (loaded with flame) and the Skyhammer coming in turn 1

 

I'd also be tempted to drop something to bring a Librarius Conclave in via a pod (perhaps with the grav command squad) on turn 1 as well. With Seed of Fear going off right in the heart of the enemy army and all that output on that alpha strike you'd probably route a large chunk of the enemy on turn 1.

Oooh- thats a lot to think about.  Thanks for the feedback. I will check the points on the sacred standard command squad and see what i can fit in.  I dont really know it or what it does. 

 

The Master is my hero, that S7, AP3 mace just wrecks face, and the little death squad forms something quite surprising for my opponents- especially the ork opponent I usually face. 

 

Regarding the pod idea for the flamer assault boys - ids something id consider, but i'm out of pods.  Only have 7 available.  

 

How have you found the flame dreads?  On paper/in theory they dont seem good at all, but i'm willing to give it a playtest.  I like the melta ability for the heavy hitters, the vehicles, the MCs and the GMCs that are rife in our meta.  The S8 also helps with instant death on certain units and the full BS overwatch really works well with it.   Most importantly though, i find the 1 melta shot forces jink saves on things like eldar bikes, greatly increasing my odds of survival. 

 

Any clues what I would lose for the conclave? 

[Solrac]

Looks mean!

 

Got a few things for you to think about.

 

The Sacred Standard that was mentioned gives the Command Squad Relentless and Counter-Attack making a 5 Grav Gun Command Squad disgustingly good. Add in a character with the Eye of the Unseen and gives them Preferred Enemy to boot. Wipe out a Riptide or Wraith Knight no probs or a Stormsurge if they roll below average on FNP.

 

I'm assuming Coteaz is there for just some safety with shenanigans? Always forget what he does. I don't think a Librarian would be all that useful with what you have. I would spend the points elsewhere.

 

The Flamer Dreads are awesome. Played a game on Thursday night my Twin-Linked Heavy Flamer/Heavy Flamer Dread wiped out a squad of pink horrors on the drop. Forced his beefed up Daemon Prince to come over and deal with it. Heavy Flamer and MM Combo is still a good cheap option.

 

Seeing as you have no other Ravenwing units I would use your Support Squadron more defensively  and give them all HB and Typhoon. Keep them in the backfield away from danger and central so they can intercept Deep Striking units and grab objectives in the backfield.

 

Find points for a Combi-Flamer in the podding Assault Squad, this is a must.

 

Find points to give both DA Dev squads 2x Grav Cannons. Against an Army that is coming to you you probably won't need to move them and they will just be shooting things all game. Against an army that is going to stay back and shoot you use first turn and smoke launchers to get them into position mid field. Let all the tactical squads in vehicles grab the objectives around them.

 

I find I get more mileage have 3 Tac units with MG/Combi MG and 3 Tac units with Plasma/ Combi-Plasma. Grav Gun loses its effectiveness and you have a lot of Grav already.

 

Find the points to have 10 man Dev units in your Skyhammer and Combat Squad, bolters in one grav in the other. The bolters can shoot at soft targets for the Assaults squads to charge at. The bolters wont do a lot of damage but will guarantee the squad wont be able to overwatch and leaves your Grav Cannons to shoot at meatier targets. I had an opponent use this against me at a Tourney and it was incredibly effective as I thought I always had something better to shoot at than 5 marines with bolters. But the rule they get from the Skyhammer makes them pretty OP.

 

Lastly stick your Commander with the Assault Squad in the vehicle so you can use them as a Counter Assault unit or at minimum some extra wounds for your Commander as that squad needs to get close to do damage anyway. I would give your Chaplain a Combi-Flamer and keep his Auspex and stick him in the Podding Assault Squad. 4 Flamers in a squad podding in is crazy good and they are all the same weapon so you resolve them at the same time for max wounds. After they do the deed if your chappy is still alive he can spot other units with his auspex.

[Morticon]

Shot for advice.  I will take you up on the Typhoon advice.

The reason for all the grav is that we have a player that is bringing 2 Tau super heavies (along with a riptide wing), another with 4 Dread Knights, and yet another with 4 Wraith Knights.  Really need grav here.  

I love the idea of the additional bodies in the skyhammer.  Will have to lose the libby for it, though and i'm unsure there.

 Libby was offering instant death hits on FNP orks and ork bosses and nobs, as well as Psychic Shriek for certain entrenched units.  
I'm not entiiiiirely convinced its a decent enough trade off, yet? Thoughts?

[Solrac]

I understand your need for Grav now but 4 shots of Grav from a 5 man Tac squad at 9" isn't going to turn the tide and if you get un unlucky miss drop you miss out on their shots at the target you want all together. Combi-Plasma/Plasma would still be effective against most MCs and would be more reliable and you still get the AP2.

 

I would definitely fit in a Grav Command Squad with all the MC/GC spam, it will be much more effective. Combine that with your Grav Skyhammer and you should be able to wipe up to 3 of the most important MC/GCs off the board on your first turn whilst your Grav Cannon Devs make it into position to take care of the rest later on.

 

I still think you can afford to lose the Libby. He will only be effective in 2 of 4 games you have mentioned so far as he probably won't be able to get a power off against GK and Eldar. If you plan to give him the Eye of the Unseen for your Grav Command Squad then yes keep him as its the cheapest way to get preferred enemy into that unit unless you want to put it on your Master and use him as a tank for the unit. If you plan on doing this I would not worry about the Mace and give him a Combi-Grav for an extra 3 relentless grav shots.

 

If you swap your RSS to Typhoon Missiles you have some more effective shots at Wraith Knights and Stormsurge to plink off some wounds at long range so that the Grav can guarantee the kill.

[Morticon]

Thanks for all the epic advice lads. I will try implement some of these in the near future.  For now, it looks as though ive taken a little detour by making the list a lot weaker (sadly) but, making it much, much more fluffy and fun for an old BA die-hard ><;  Still majority DA, but fluffed out with BA thematic elements rather than power-house elements.  

[Morticon]

Quick update/side-note.   I took a thinned out DA double-demi with a strong BA jumpy contingent.  

It worked beautifully well - not as well as this list would have admittedly, but well enough for my liking. 

This list would have nommed the other lists I played so hard.

There's a "Roads to Veterans" thread in the BA forum if anyone is interested in seeing out the demi fared. Thanks again for advice and support! 

[aura_enchanted]

this belongs in the armylist subforum for dark angels.

 

also at 2500 the kitchen sinks are out and that means your going to be in a much more difficult position then the lions blades native elements of 1850-2k

 

i mean what do u plan on doing if people start bringing all the really ugly nonsense out to play

[Morticon]

this belongs in the armylist subforum for dark angels.

 

also at 2500 the kitchen sinks are out and that means your going to be in a much more difficult position then the lions blades native elements of 1850-2k

 

i mean what do u plan on doing if people start bringing all the really ugly nonsense out to play

 

It was going to be a battlereport thread with the list at the top as per all my other "Road to Veterans" - hence the posting here. 

 

But as far as all the ugly stuff - you can check how i did with the tournament in the batrep thread over at the BA side.  The DA did exceptionally well, and were the workhorses of the army.  The BA shone on account of the jumpers, but the DA performed exactly as needed.