Sororitas Update Feedback

[BitsHammer]

Since I’m the sort of person who gets excited pretty quickly for homebrew I got inspired by the Future of Sisters thread and decided to take it further and basically write a codex and submit it to GW with a clear explanation of what is being asked for and why in one of my vain attempts to pique some interest from the rules team to give our Sororitas some new rules. I did this back when the 6th Edition codex came out, only now I’m looking to take it a bit further and get more input than before and make a master “this is what we would really like please” sort of thing with detailed explanations on why.

As I’m just starting this as of the middle of the night of 6/17 I decided to start loosely and refine things as I go so that it becomes a sharper picture of what the army looks like and how it functions as a whole.

Martyrdom

Each time a model with this special rule is removed as a casualty add +1 point to your total Martyrdom points. This total determines which effect is given when a unit succeeds a Faith Test.

Acts of Faith

Each unit or Independent Character with this rule with this rule can attempt to use the Act of Faith used in their profile. To use an Act of Faith roll a D6 on either player’s turn and on a 5+ the test succeeds. If successful then compare your current Martyrdom points to the points listed and then apply the special rules to the unit and the weapons the unit has until the end of the turn (this effect does not apply to emplaced weapons as part of terrain or fortifications). Otherwise nothing happens.

Only models with this rule can be affected by Acts of Faith. Independent Characters with this rule can share the effects with a unit with the rule and vice versa as long as the test is passed. If an Independent Character is attached to a unit and both have the Acts of Faith special rule both the Independent Character and the unit’s Acts of Faith may be attempted in the same turn. If the Independent Character has an effect that grants them rerolls on their test this does not carry over to the unit that they’re attached to and vice versa.

The following Acts of Faith and their effects replace the current ones in the unit entries:

Acts of Faith            Effect

The Passion            0    Hatred

                1    Zealot

                2    Zealot, Fleet

                3+    Zealot, Fleet, Shred

Endless Crusade        0    Crusader

                1    Crusader, Fleet

                2    Crusader, Fleet, Move Through Cover

                3+    Crusader, Fleet, Move Through Cover, Relentless

Light of the Emperor        0    Preferred Enemy

                1    Preferred Enemy, Shred

                2    Preferred Enemy, Shred, Relentless

                3+    Preferred Enemy, Shred, Relentless, Rage

Hand of the Emperor        0    Furious Charge

                1    Furious Charge, Rage   

                2    Furious Charge, Rage, Fleet

                3+    Furious Charge, Rage, Fleet, Shred

Spirit of the Martyr        0    Death Frenzy (as per Wulfen special rule)

                1    Death Frenzy, Feel no Pain (4+)

                2    Death Frenzy, Feel no Pain (4+), Rampage

                3+    Death Frenzy, Feel no Pain (3+), Rampage

The Emperor’s Deliverance    0    Shred

                1    Shred, Preferred Enemy

                2     Shred, Preferred Enemy, Twin-linked

                3+    Shred, Preferred Enemy, Twin-linked, Use Jump Packs to Charge even if used during movement phase

Holy Fusillade            0    Ignores Cover

                1    Ignores Cover, Shred

                2    Ignores Cover, Shred, +6” range (templates gain a 6” torrent)

                3+    Ignores Cover, Shred, +6” range, Fire twice but can’t overwatch

Divine Guidance        0    Rending

                1    Rending, Can target and allocate wounds to models outside of Line of Sight as long as in range

                2    Rending, No LoS Needed, Ignores Cover

                3+    Rending, No LoS Needed, Ignores Cover, +12” range (templates get torrent)

New Rules:

Faithful (Canoness, Sororitas Command Squad, Celestians)

Models with this special rule improve their Shield of Faith save by +1 and add +1 to their Faith Test rolls.

Changes to Wargear:

Blessed Power Armor - Celestians, Canoness come with standard. Confers a 2+ armour save and +1 to all Deny the Witch rolls.

Blade of Admonition: Add Witchbane

Witchbane: If the bearer is within 6” if a model with the psyker special rule the sword gains Fleshbane and Psyshock

Seraphim Pattern Jump Pack: 15 points, Canoness only, grants Angelic Visage

Neural Whips: S: User, AP3, Nerve Shock

Nerve Shock: Always wounds on a 4+ unless you need to roll less to wound.

Special Weapons:

Heavy Stubber    5pts    Frateris Militia, Ministorum Priests, Confessors only

Melee Weapons:

Models with an Eviscerator may take an Exterminator for +5 points. The Exterminator follows all the rules for a combi-flamer and is attached to Eviscerator.

Unit Changes:

Battle Sisters: All models of this type are reduced to 10 points per model, unit points adjusted to match

Battle Sister Squad: Special weapons at 5 and 15 models, Heavy Weapons at 10 and 20 models.

Ministorum Priests may be upgraded to Confessors for 10 points (+1 WS/BS/A)

Ministorum Priests and Confess can take up to 5 Arco-flagellants for 10 points a model. If taken the Priest or Confessor forms a unit with the Arco-flagellants and loses the Independent Character special rule as long as their Arco-flagellants are alive.

Tactics Militant: Canoness, Sororitas Command Squad, Celestians, Repentia, Battle Sister Squad, Seraphim, and Retributors only

(to summarize for this rough draft): Chapter Tactics based on Militant Order, or your order’s patron saint. Same restrictions apply to mixing orders as apply to mixing chapter tactics.

Order            Saint            Effect

Bloody Rose        Mina            Furious Charge (models with this rule instead gain +D3” to their charge move), Rage (models with this rule instead gain Rampage)

Our Martyred Lady    Katherine        +1 Leadership, Can Shoot and then Run or Run and then Shoot

Valorous Heart    Lucia            Feel no Pain (6+) (models with Feel no Pain improve it by +1 to a maximum of 2+), Models who can take Melee weapons may instead purchase a pair of Neural Whips for 20 points

Sacred Rose        Arabella        Stubborn, May move and fire Heavy Weapons at no penalty but may not charge. All models with this special rule overwatch at BS2.

Ebon Chalice        Alicia Dominica    Bolt Weapons reroll 1s to hit and to wound, +1 to Martyrdom

Argent Shroud        Silvania        Each unit may attempt an Act of Faith an additional time per game, All units gain Death Frenzy (models with Death Frenzy instead gain Shred)

New Units:

Frateris Militia: Troops, 10 Models (9 Volunteers, 1 Militia Leader) 50 points

Lower members of the clergy, the faithful and sometimes volunteers from local PDFs

WS    BS    S    T    I    A    Sv    Ld

Volunteer    2    2    3    3    3    1    6+    6       

Militia Leader    2    2    3    3    3    2    6+    7

Wargear:

Autoguns

Improvised Flak Armour

May take up to 20 additional Volunteers for 5pts/model

Each model may exchange their Autoguns for Autopistols and Close Combat Weapons for free

The entire unit may take Militia Training for 15pts (+1 WS/BS and exchanges Improvised Flak Armour for Flak Armour)

May take 1 special weapon per five models

One other model may take an Eviscerator for 15 points for every 5 models in the unit

Each Eviscerator may have an Exterminator for +5 points

The Militia Leader may take a Melee and/or Ranged Weapon (counts as a priest for both as per current restrictions)

Penitent Mob: Fast Attack, 5 models (4 Penitents, 1 Redeemer) 60 points

Criminals convicted by the Ecclesiarchy these souls are sent into battle after being injected with drugs that drive them into a maddened frenzy while they’re pressed forward by their handlers into the enemy. Those who are forgiven by surviving combat are often broken in both mind and spirit.

WS    BS    S    T    I    A    Sv    Ld

Penitent    2    2    3    3    3    1        5

Arco-flagellant    [No change to current statline]       

Redeemer    3    3    3    3    3    2    5+    7

Wargear:

Autopistol, Neural Whip, Flak Armour (Redeemer only)

Paired Close Combat Weapons (Penitent and Arco-flagellant)

Special rules:

Fearless, Feel no Pain (Penitent, Arco-flagellant only), Mindless Frenzy

Fleet, Furious Charge

Mindless Frenzy: if the Redeemer is removed as a casualty the unit may only move towards the closest enemy units during the movement and shooting phases (if electing to run)

May take up to 20 additional Penitents for 6 points each

For every 5 models in the unit one Penitent may be upgraded to an Arco-flagellant for 5 points

The Redeemer may trade their Autopistol for a second Neural Whip for 10 points or purchase a Ranged Weapon (follows current restrictions for priests)

[Servant of Dante]

I love your revision of AoFs! The martyrdom rule is very interresting.

 

I have a few comments:

 

I really appreciate how we can take a special and heavy weapon in squads of 5. I'd rather not lose that. I'd at least like an or option, rather than not having a heavy option till 10

 

I'll post more soon sorry

[BitsHammer]

I love your revision of AoFs! The martyrdom rule is very interresting.

 

Thanks! I tried to balance the multiple effect rules some units have now with adding additional effects to make the units have a little more punch

 

I have a few comments:

 

I really appreciate how we can take a special and heavy weapon in squads of 5. I'd rather not lose that. I'd at least like an or option, rather than not having a heavy option till 10

 

Frankly I think it supports MSU spam too much with Immolators, which already have a TL Heavy Weapon of their own. I'd rather have people have to trade the unit heavy for the vehicle's TL one for balance honestly when running Immo-heavy.

 

I'll post more soon sorry

 

Thanks for the feedback!

 

Still working on things (like the Sororitas Redemption Force (aka Decurion) but I felt that an hour and half of typing to start was a pretty good start for now because this thing with be MANY pages by the time I'm done.

[Servant of Dante]

Ok I get your point, though that yellow text is next to impossible to read on mobile, although, being a proponent of the color yellow, I recommend one of the more gold flavored text colors

 

The extra AoF ardent shroud gets seems a little strong. Idk.

 

With the buffed AoFs and free order rules, should the battle sister really get a points cut?

 

Also, would you consider incorporating some of my celestians rewrite? Obviously, you might drop the storm shield option since they all get 2+.

 

Ooh, and the Palatine. Fluff wise it's absolutely nessessary. It's like if the marine codex didn't have any HQ under the rank of chapter master.

 

Finally, if I see anything else I'll comment.

 

I would be quite pleased if you would let me format all of this. I wouldn't be able to get to it for a few days, unfortunately. I can't claim to be a computer wizard, but I have practice formatting up warhammer rules in word. I'd have to upload everything as jpegs. It'd be nice to be involved in a project on the B&C

 

This is honestly something I'm going to try to use when I play. It really brings out the faith aspect of the AoFs, and the "chapter tactics" seem cool.

 

Obviously, it all needs specific wording to make it work (like that bit where you mention wolfen. Obviously, this is a draft. If love to help with the wording. The only thing is, I don't own C:SM, but I can probably find it in the Internet somewhere . . .

[BitsHammer]

Marine Scouts have a better statline (with only a worse save with a 4+ instead of a 3+) for 10pts and come stock with Chapter Tactics and ATSKNF.

 

Battle Sisters for 10 points is completely fair.

 

As for Argent Shroud, they're a hard one to write for. Quiet. Stoic and faithful while also extra heroic (hence Death Frenzy to let them fight to the death literally).

 

Wulfen have a buffed version of the old Repentia AoF. When slain they a model may immediately make it's full attacks at that initiative step even if it had attacked already that fight sub-phase. Not exactly broken on Sisters.

 

And I have a rewrite in mind for Celestians, I just need to get it written when I have time. Free CCW is a start as well as every model having access to combi weapons and melee weapons (allowing you to build them shooty or choppy) and possibly giving them access to jump packs.

 

Basically the idea is a Swiss Army unit you can set up to do a lot of different stuff with depending on what holes you want to fill in your army.

 

Palatine/Canoness definitely getting an update as well. Likely you buy a Palatine and upgrade to a Canoness ala Captains and Chapter Masters. Or Priests and Confessors.

[BitsHammer]

Oh, and let's not forget that the AoF only get buffed as you lose character models (Superiors, Veterans Superiors, Celestine and Canoness) who have the Martyrdom rule. So while buffed it's a trade off for losing models (and likely units) and only can be used once per game (barring purchasing a Simulacrum or Jacobus or current Argent Shroud rules) and only has a 1/3 chance in success for most units (barring bonuses to pass that improve that).

[Servant of Dante]

You make good points. The only think I'm still a little dubious about is the army wide simulacrum, when you can still take a simulacrum In a unit. Although, it probably won't be a problem. I definitely consider points costs to be the most difficult part of rules writing for me.

 

It makes sense you would want to use celestian and palatine rules that fit with your vision.

 

Still eager to contribute and assist however I can.

[Spacefrisian]

What about putting the torrent special rule on the TL heavy flamer on top of the the Immolator?, make it something else than a Razorback copy with a different name.

[gomericus]

1 change the really need to make is to move pentitent engines from heavy to the elite slot.

[BitsHammer]

Changes to two things: Bloody Rose is swapping Rage for Hammer of Wrath as I hand out Rage to Sisters all over the place currently.

 

And for Argent Shroud change the AoF rule to "does not take morale checks for losing 25% of a unit in the shooting phase" to reflect their stoicism better.

 

TL Heavy Flamer Immolators are definitely "fast" vehicles in my mind.

 

And Penitent Engines only need to change in a CAD not in a Decurion layout.

[Servant of Dante]

Changes to two things: Bloody Rose is swapping Rage for Hammer of Wrath as I hand out Rage to Sisters all over the place currently.

 

And for Argent Shroud change the AoF rule to "does not take morale checks for losing 25% of a unit in the shooting phase" to reflect their stoicism better.

 

TL Heavy Flamer Immolators are definitely "fast" vehicles in my mind.

 

And Penitent Engines only need to change in a CAD not in a Decurion layout.

The elites slot certainly is less crowded

[BitsHammer]

Problem is that the Elites slot already has a "repentance" themed unit, putting two there crows it in a different way.

[Servant of Dante]

Problem is that the Elites slot already has a "repentance" themed unit, putting two there crows it in a different way.

I don't have strong feelings either way, and I agree that it limits repentance themed army potential. It's your choice in either case.

[BitsHammer]

Forgot the obvious moves: Battle Conclave and Sororitas Command Squads to elites, for each Priest/Confessor or Palatine/Canoness you take (respectively) one unit does not take up a slot.

[Spacefrisian]

Do you mind to have some of others thrown into the mix?

[BitsHammer]

Do you mind to have some of others thrown into the mix?

I'm going to need you to clarify as I don't get what you're trying to say.

[Spacefrisian]

Ideas for units and such from other board users.

[BitsHammer]

Ideas for units and such from other board users.

 

Yeah, I'll field such suggestions, I just won't promise anything will make it into the final draft as sometimes things just don't fit right (like AoF as they stand in any form are causing me to rack and rerack my brain again and again to try and find a happy medium).

[Servant of Dante]

I really like the idea of tying AoFs to martyrdom in some way. Honestly, I'd rather they work on a unit level than a army level, both gameplay and flavor wise.

[BitsHammer]

I like the tying too but at the same time the current method has a lot of bookkeeping and needs reworking.

[Spacefrisian]

Thanks for at least considering homemade stuff by others. That being typed, here is what i had in mind (i know it has been sugested before, but this time it has a better name and are better worked out imo)

 

Sister Examplar: WS Bs S T W I A Ld Sv

Sister Examplar    4   4  3 4  2 3 2  8  3+

Examplar Paladin 4   4  3 4  2 3 3  9  3+

 

Composition: 2 Sister Examplar and 1 Examplar Paladin for 100 points, you may add up to 7 Sister Examplar for 30 points each.

Unit type: Cavalry

 

Wargear:

-Boltpistol

-Combat shield

-Powerlance

-Frag& Krak grenades

-Power armour

 

Special rules:

-Acts of Faith

-Shield of Faith

-Heroic intervention

-Martyrdom (Examplar Paladin)

 

Options:

-Each Examplar may exchange there combat shield for a Stormshield at 10 points. (includes Examplar Paladin)

-Each Examplar may exchange there power lance for a power sword, axe or Mace for free. (includes Examplar Paladin)

-1 model may take an Examplar order banner for 10 points (prevents the opponent from using overwatch when this unit charges)

 

Up to 2 Examplar may exchange there boltpistol for:

-Flame pistol: 5 points

-Inferno pistol or plasmapistol 10 points

 

The Examplar Paladin may may take:

-Meltabombs: 5 points

-Auspex: 2 points

-Combi, -flamer, -plasma, -melta at 5 points

May Exchange there Powerlance for:

-Eviscator: 10 points

-Thunder Hammer: 10 points

[BitsHammer]

I'm not sure of the point of a Combat shield there (which gives a 6++) when Shield of Faith also gives a 6++.

 

Some of the stuff feels very WFB (Banner preventing Overwatch) but that may just be me.

 

I'll mull it over and come back to it.

 

In the "Future of the Sisters" thread the idea of AoF being "reverse canticles" came up so I dug out the Witchhunters book and the Mechanicus one (the latter to get a feel for the rule as I didn't recall it off the top of my head) and scribbled something up:

 

Acts of Faith

 

Once per game turn, at the start of the turn, you may choose one of the following Acts of Faith to be applied to all units with the Acts of Faith special rule. Once the Act has been chosen count the number of slain models with the Martyrdom special rule and apply the rule next to the number that matches that amount. Unless otherwise stated each Act of Faith may only be used once per game.

 

Hand of the Emperor:

1-3 +1 Strength

4-7 +2 Strength

8+  +3 Strength

 

Divine Guidance:

1-3 Reroll 1s on to Hit and To Wound rolls

4-7 Reroll 1s or 2s on to Hit and to Wound rolls

8+  Twin-linked, Shred

 

The Passion:

1-3 +1 Initiative, Fleet

4-7 +2 Initiative, Fleet, Roll 3D6 for charge take the highest

8+  +3 Initiative, Fleet, Roll 3D6 for charge and use total

 

Light of the Emperor:

1-3 Stubborn

4-7 Stubborn, reroll failed morale, fear and pinning tests

8+  Fearless

 

Endless Crusade:

1-3 Move Through Cover

4-7 Move Through Cover, Crusader

8+  Move Through Cover, Crusader, Relentless

 

Now I did consider making every single modern AoF it's own option, but too many options can be just as detrimental as not enough, so I settled for the original 5 Acts (with some tweaking because of Cogheads can get +3 strength with no negative then so can we) and added in Endless Crusade to give the army some mobility options as well. Still ties into Martyrdom as it did before, but it's an army wide effect that has FAR less book keeping to make use of.

 

I did consider that Act of Faith really is just the Sisters acting out of their faith and not true miracles, but frankly even then their zealous nature should have them push the very limits of common sense (as well as their bodies and equipment).

[BitsHammer]

 

If we want the faith and martyr mechanics tied to the unit then how about having the Superior give one bonus while she is alive and the martyr bonus when she is dead.

That way the only record keeping is checking to see if she is on the board or not.

I was thinking that the superior gives the re-roll on faith test while alive.

 

The simulacrum could do something similar too.

Roll 2 dice for faith, pick the highest, while it is on the table and a martyr bonus when she is removed.

Or a martyr bonus while she is on the table and hatred when she is removed.

Again the only record keeping is checking to see if the model is on the board or not.

 

**** oops, this was meant for another topic, but I guess it works here too.

 

Fair point, and it's not like Matrydom can't have a benefit while on the table and then serve as a counter for later in the game as your number of maytrs increases.

[Servant of Dante]

 

 

If we want the faith and martyr mechanics tied to the unit then how about having the Superior give one bonus while she is alive and the martyr bonus when she is dead.

That way the only record keeping is checking to see if she is on the board or not.

I was thinking that the superior gives the re-roll on faith test while alive.

 

The simulacrum could do something similar too.

Roll 2 dice for faith, pick the highest, while it is on the table and a martyr bonus when she is removed.

Or a martyr bonus while she is on the table and hatred when she is removed.

Again the only record keeping is checking to see if the model is on the board or not.

 

**** oops, this was meant for another topic, but I guess it works here too.

 

Fair point, and it's not like Matrydom can't have a benefit while on the table and then serve as a counter for later in the game as your number of maytrs increases.

 

What does a Simulacrum DO in this system? Perhaps having a simulacrum allows a unit to contribute to Martyrdom even if their Superior is still alive? They don't need to flat out add 1, but just make it so that the unit doesn't have to lose their leader to contribute.

 

Speaking of witch, I love whats going on here, but the martyrdom numbers seem a little high. I don't know if I'm ever really going to have 8 superiors on the board in 1500 points.

 

Also, it occurs to me that we are encouraging our sister superiors to act like Khorneate champions, running at the fronts of their squads so they can be shot first. While this is fine for KDK, I don't really appreciate the connotation for sisters. Fanatical, yes. Suicidal, no.

[BitsHammer]

Simulacrum would likely be reroll morale checks or a reroll for SoF while alive. Though counting as a martyr while alive does make things interesting as in theory you could have 4 units, kill the superiors and get the 8+ benefit...

 

Which means that it probably shouldn't be an option.

 

And Sisters have always been a little like that. In 3rd losing certain models gained you Faith points.

 

And let's be honest, in low point games you shouldn't need that level of buffing (much like the Cogheads don't need 8 units to pull canticles of the highest level off at that level). It's more scaling the Army for apoc or larger games than not leaving it with any bonuses for bigger games.