Apoc game vs Demons (need help!)

[Damon Nightman]

Brothers, I am playing in an apoc game in a couple weeks and need advice/help. It will be demons vs imperials for the most part with armies ranging from 2.5 to 3kpts (should find out for sure later this week).

 

I'm pretty new to playing 40k and no idea what demons will have at this point level. I'm pretty set on bringing Strike force razor wind to cover around 2kpts and filling the rest out with an IK or two (which I have 0 experience with).

 

My rough list idea so far is:

Force Razorwind (2000pts)

(Make reserve rolls on turn one, everyone within 12 inches of Seth is fearless)

 

-Lysios Relief Force

(Crusader, Relief force: Everything starts in reserve but no drop pods, make 1 roll to come in)

Gabriel Seth, Chapter Master of the Flesh Tearers

Baal Predator [Heavy bolters, Twin-linked Assault Cannon]

Predator [Lascannon, Overcharged engines, Twin-linked Lascannon]

Stormraven Gunship [Twin Linked Assault Cannon, Twin-linked Multi-melta]

Tactical Squad [Heavy flamer, Rhino, 4x Tactical Marine] Tactical Sergeant [Hand Flamer, Lightning claw]

Vanguard Veteran Squad [4x Bolt Pistol, 3x Chainsword, Power Weapon, Storm Shield, 4x Vanguard Veteran]Veteran Sergeant [bolt Pistol, Lightning Claw, Storm Shield]

-The Defenders of the Cathedrum

(Counter-attack, Stubborn)

Assault Squad [4x Assault Marines, 2x Meltagun] Assault Sergeant [bolt Pistol, Inferno Pistol] Drop Pod [storm Bolter]

Death Company Squad [8x Bolt Pistol, 2x Bolter, 8x Chainsword, 10x Death Company Marine, Jump Pack, 2x Power Fist]

Furioso Dreadnought [Magna-grapple] Drop Pod [storm Bolter] Power Fists [Frag cannon, Heavy flamer]

Tactical Squad [Heavy flamer, 4x Tactical Marine] Drop Pod [storm Bolter] Tactical Sergeant [2x Hand Flamer]

Tactical Squad [Meltagun, Rhino, 4x Tactical Marine] Tactical Sergeant [2x Inferno Pistol]

Terminator Assault Squad [Thunder Hammer and Storm Shield, Thunder Hammer and Storm Shield, 3x Twin Lightning Claws

DC, Flamer TAC sqaud with rhino, and whatever IK/s i bring and hide if possible. Everything else comes in turn 1 hopefully and does what it needs to. I would rather the termies come in a little later after the locator beacon are already down (i'm afraid of mishaps).

 

Main concerns/questions:

- I was thinking of putting Seth with the VVs in the Stormraven, but am worried about it being shot down. Other options i thought of were Seth in tac squad (lame), give VVs a rhino with seth, put seth alone in raven or in raven with tac squad and have VV deepstrike or rhino in.

 

- are the VVs/tac squads/ anything really kitted out ideally to handle demons/chaos?

 

- what kind of IK/s should I bring that would work well with this army? Don't own the Dex yet, but have the renegade box.

 

- will this list be utterly destroyed or do I have chance at doing some damage?

 

I'm not concerned about being competitive, but don't want to lose terribly either.

 

Also, some of the load outs are filler. Like the tac sgt With HF/LC is not locked, I just knew I'd give him something.

 

So brothers, what advice can you offer the Blood Revenants? Heed the call to help so the Revenants can bring honor and glory to Sanguinius and the IXth!

 

Note: posted from phone, will proofread/edit later if needed.

[Chaplain Gunzhard]

Are you guys using the actual GW Apoc book perchance? ...I would highly recommend it!  The Reserves table is a bit different and you can deepstrike most stuff on turn 1 and if you take the "Blood From the Skies" Strategic Card you can Assault out of Deep Strike (and deep striking vehicles) too.

 

I love the scheduled breaks and "scoring at the breaks" concept, it seems weird until you do it; and the Finest Hour and Sons of the Primarch stuff is pretty neat.

 

My Imperial Knights always die turn 1 or 2 haha, but you can take the Shield Generator Stratagem to help and I'd probably field the double Gatling cannon or double Battle cannon - if it's a huge Apoc-sized table go for the Battle cannons.

[Jolemai]

Was going to post on your blog but...

 

First off, read the Apoc rules book as some things are different. For example, Apoc has it's own rules for Reserves so the above Formation will arrive differently than listed. Secondly, if you go ahead with this force, read the Apoc rules for Vehicle Formations and use it to your advantage as all those tanks will get a series of buffs depending on how you arrange them.

 

Who is your Warlord? Warlord Traits are determined by the Apoc book and who it is will determine what table you roll on. Make note of how many individual units you have as this will count for Deployment. Remember to use your Finest Hour and keep track of casulties so you can activate godmode (basically you gain buffs with casualties but I can't remember what it's called...) How many strategy cards per person? Check out the cards on offer.

[Damon Nightman]

Sounds like I might be in over my head. I don't know any of the apoc specific rules, didn't even know it was so different...

 

Should I consider a different list since reserves work differently anyway?

 

Jolemai: sorry about that, I made a separate thread to hopefully get more feedback. I'll edit my other one to lessen any confusion. Let me know if you'd rather me keep it there instead.

[Jolemai]

Don't worry about it. Keeping it here is fine as it means more traffic for Apoc things.

Basically, where are you playing and have they set any guidelines? Any idea of the total numbers of players/points?

Oh, and I've probably done one Apoc a year since it's conception back in the fourth edition, so this might be one of my favourite topics

[Damon Nightman]

I think it's 8 v 8 and 2.5 to 3k per person. Will know for sure soon, but sounds like a huge game. From what the guys were saying, it's bigger than their normal apoc games.

 

Playing at my flgs and have no idea about any limitations or guidelines. Everyone else seems to have been doing this for awhile and I'm kinda the new guy in the group, so they probably didn't think to provide anymore detail since everyone else has done it before.

 

I'm gonna stop in the shop today and try to get more details. Very glad I made this or I would have showed up so confused lol.

 

I'm also studying for a kinda big licensing exam that is taking up all my brain power, so thoroughly reading a rulebook isn't going to be possible unless I want to forget what I'm studying. Pretty bad timing but I couldn't resist saying yes when asked to play.

[Jolemai]

Basically there will be house rules and it's important to know what they are as it *may* affect your plans/enjoyment of the event.

 

The most important question to ask? What beer will be available?

[Damon Nightman]

Lol I hope that's allowed in the shop. Most IPAs work for me, but that might be a little much to drink throughout a day or so long game if I want to be coherent by the end lol.

 

Are IPAs popular outside merica? Now I just want to talk beer and ask about differences lol. What section of B&C would that be?

 

Back on topic haha, I'll def ask about house rules and whatnot today and give the thread an update in a few hours.

[Chaplain Gunzhard]

Sculpin.

I'd at least find out if they'll use the Apoc book at all. Playing just 'big 40K' is really tough to manage and horrible by comparison in my opinion.

[Damon Nightman]

Sculpin is great, actually went to Ballast Point Brewery years ago!

I imagine they definitely use the book. They are all pretty avid players and seem to use all the appropriate rules besides the new flier stuff, but that seems common for most groups.

[Damon Nightman]

Update: "Will likely be normal apoc rules w/special scenario. Should have more details hammered out this week"

 

Was thinking of having seth as the warlord.

 

[Jolemai]

How big is the table?

[Damon Nightman]

Asking all the hard questions lol. I honestly have no idea the size, but here's a pic that may help. I imagine it will be around the size of the big table (or i think three tables pushed together) on the left side of this pic. Maybe another table or 2 added in...

[Chaplain Gunzhard]

Wow that's a nice looking store, tons of space! ...mind if I ask where that is?

[Damon Nightman]

Titan games and hobbies in Lutherville, MD. Very nice store and community!

[Jolemai]

Right, that looks like four 4x4 boards (so 16 x 4) - but what's important is the width. I wouldn't be surprised if you play something like Meatgrinder (Apoc mission) or any of the missions which have you starting something like 18 or 24" apart from one another. This is important because it affects how fast you get across the board and thus, your Reserves.

 

Reserves in Apocalypse (relevant to you) arrive as thus:

• Start of T1 onwards - Flyers, Deep Strikers
• Start of T2 onwards - Fast vehicles
• After any scheduled break after the first turn - everything else

So lets say there's a scheduled break after T2 and your jumpers are in Reserve - they will arrive in T3 wont be able to charge until T4 at the earliest! I should also add that you don't *have* to bring everything on when they are available. So whilst every Drop Pod you own can arrive on T1 (Drop Pod Assault is ignored in Apocalypse) you don't have to.

 

Of course, you aren't permitted to deploy everything (you can only deploy between and quarter and a half of your army - but I imagine this will be worked out per side) so you need to decide on what goes where. I would mount up where possible and deploy the combat jumpers in cover (unless you have a plan for them).

 

In my last two Apoc games, my Stormraven has been ignored due to the other threats elsewhere. As you are against Daemons, do you know if there will be any uber-Daemons from FW or any Chaos titans present? This will also affect whether your Imperial Knight is left alone or not!

[Damon Nightman]

Def gonna be chaos Titans I imagine and whatever the demons can throw at me. A lot of serious demons players in the club so I assume they've got it all, but don't know for sure.

 

I feel like the reserve benefits of this formation are huge, so not being able to take advantage of them is making me want to use something else...

[Chaplain Gunzhard]

I hope they let you pick your own Strategic Asset Card ..."Blood from the Skies" is just too darn cool.

[Jolemai]

I hope they let you pick your own Strategic Asset Card ..."Blood from the Skies" is just too darn cool.

 

Which Warzone is that from?

 

Scratch that, that can only be used if you're playing in the Armageddon Warzone :(

[Chaplain Gunzhard]

I hope they let you pick your own Strategic Asset Card ..."Blood from the Skies" is just too darn cool.

Which Warzone is that from?

Scratch that, that can only be used if you're playing in the Armageddon Warzone

It's in the main GW Apocalypse book, and the "Armageddon" cards come with the actual card-deck too so we've always included them without question, but maybe you're right - does it say somewhere they are excluded from regular games?

[Jolemai]

I hope they let you pick your own Strategic Asset Card ..."Blood from the Skies" is just too darn cool.

Which Warzone is that from?

Scratch that, that can only be used if you're playing in the Armageddon Warzone

It's in the main GW Apocalypse book, and the card comes with the actual card-deck too so we've always included them without question, but maybe you're right - does it say somewhere they are excluded from regular games?

I'm actually trying to find it now. I know that in the other Warzone books it does state that you can only use the assets, etc, in the Warzone in question (Formations excluded). For example, this is in Damnos (and from what I remember, the other ones too):

[Damon Nightman]

I'm pretty sure they are gonna make up an objective or mission. At first there were gonna be side tables fighting over smaller stuff like gun batteries. I volunteered for that, but some people didn't want to be left out of the big table so no more side tables with lesser points unless it changes again.

 

The game is on July 2nd so I hope they iron out these details soon.. I guess no one else really minds since they've done it before, but I've been thinking about this for a month lol.

 

Thanks for all the help so far guys. I'm gonna start thinking of other lists ideas and update later. I'll still incorporate defenders of the cathedrum mainly to use the termies I painted for the ETL and counter attack DC, but lysios relief force is wasted in apoc since the reserve benefits don't work. On the bright side, no need to rush a Seth kitbash...

[Chaplain Gunzhard]

Jolemai:

I'm actually trying to find it now. I know that in the other Warzone books it does state that you can only use the assets, etc, in the Warzone in question (Formations excluded). For example, this is in Damnos (and from what I remember, the other ones too):

 

 

 

Ahh well maybe it's just my group then - if it's an apoc formation, it's free game, it doesn't matter which book it's from for us.  I just assumed that is how everyone used them.

 

However - the Armageddon stuff is in the main book and again the cards are in the regular deck, I think he should be ok to use it assuming they even use Strategic assets.

[Jolemai]

Other things to watch out for:

 

• Unnatural Disasters - these can range from fun, to annoying, to broken. Just be aware that if they are in play, then your army might be decimated before the enemy has even shot you!
• When you have lost over 50% of your army, you can call a Divine Intervention. Basically what's left become Fearless (and any Imperial non-BAs you might have also gain FC)
• At the start of any turn your Warlord may call his Finest Hour. This has three effects:
  • He gets a 3++ and Eternal Warrior until the start of next turn
  • He gets to roll on one of the Exemplar tables (worth reading) or activate Son of the Angel (becomes a FMC for a turn)
  • He can call an All Out Attack on one unit - this unit triples its movement, can't shoot or run, but can charge*
• Note that if he dies during this he loses a Strategic Victory Point (SVP)
• SVPs are huge. You gain them for killing a SHV, GMC, stopping a Finest Hour or killing a Warmaster (basically the Warlord in charge of the team's Warlords). You also gain them from Objectives during a scheduled break so don't lose sight of this as this is how you win.

* Anecdote

[Damon Nightman]

Thanks Jolemai for all the info this is great!

 

For my new list idea, i'm thinking of throwing in the Archangels Sanguine Wing formation with the free power weapons and combi bolters, but would the power weapons be worth it against demons? I'm sure there will be something that has armor saves. Also maybe could give them all power axes and mauls. With the str 7 on the charge and ap2 from the axes i feel like they could threaten HQs and some vehicles pretty well... maybe?