Hypothetical Situation

[SyNidus]

So let's say someone is interested in starting a pure Ravenwing army?

Where would be the best place to start?

I'm thinking of the Dark Angels battleforce, but i'd like to know if there's a way to get more bikes at a cheaper price?

[JJD]

If your after cheap RW bikes then eBay Dark vengence is the best place to start.

[Chaplain Lucifer]

I'd say two DA battleforces would be a good start, then a couple of Black knight boxes.

[Major_Gilbear]

If your after cheap RW bikes then eBay Dark vengence is the best place to start.

 

Yeah, DV bikes from ebay, and then add Black Knights, LS, etc to suit. :)

 

I'm not sure which (if any) versions of the RW Battleforce are still available to buy, but the old 3E/4E one is pretty good value.

 

I would certainly recommend getting a RW upgrade sprue as a minimum though - they have lots of great bits for all the other vehicles found in a RW force. They come in the older Battleforces, but otherwise you can order them directly from GW.

 

Personally, although I have the old RW Battleforce, I prefer the new DV/BK style bikes. I have therefore used the old parts to jazz up about 40 of the DV bikes that I've acquired through ebay!

 

The other thing that might be worth getting is a bit left-field... I'd consider a Sternguard box. This is an easy way of getting lots of special weapons that you will need for your bike squads (2 each of Flamer, Grav, Plasma, and Melta). Whilst you can get these from bits sites, they will still run you enough money that it might be worth considering just getting the full box. Alternatively (and it's a good alternative!), consider ordering some FW Heresy-era special weapon packs (example #1, #2, #3 & #4) instead, as these are also decent value (and at £1.20/weapon, cheaper than most online bits-sellers too).

[Epher]

When you say the Dark Angels Battle Force, do you mean the current one with the Black Knights or the older one with the 6 bikes, attack bike and land speeder?  I would say get two of each but as previously stated, the older one will be harder to find. 

 

And as previously stated, DV bikes on ebay are the cheapest way to go.  They are great for making conversions too.  The sergeants can be converted into HQ's and you can cut the bolt guns off the regular bikes to make them into Black Knights.  The current DA battle force does not save you much money but you get the a set of Ravenwing Upgrade sprues which can be used to convert regular SM bikes to Ravenwing bikes.

 

As Major Gilbear stated, get some special weapons too, especially grav.  Ravenwing bikes are the best way for us to get grav weapons on the table.

 

Good luck and let us know what you choose to do!

[Knight of the Raven]

The other thing that might be worth getting is a bit left-field... I'd consider a Sternguard box. This is an easy way of getting lots of special weapons that you will need for your bike squads (2 each of Flamer, Grav, Plasma, and Melta).

Unless I've been seeing things, one box of sternguard veterans only comes with one of each special weapon, though it does come with two of each combi-weapon.

[Disciple of Caliban Sgt]

First start by placing a corvus hammer onto the table top. Then stare at your opponent with a glare and raised eyebrow. Lastly scream "Fallen!" at the top of your lungs and fling the hammer at them and go straight for the nearest Int. Chappy. Preferably Stobz or Shabbado......................(You have to watch out for Chaplain Lucifer he really has a way with interrogations.)

[Major_Gilbear]

Unless I've been seeing things, one box of sternguard veterans only comes with one of each special weapon, though it does come with two of each combi-weapon.

I've just checked, and you are quite right! I thought they had two of each regular special *and* combi-weapon.

 

So... just get the FW special weapon kits then! ;)

[ValourousHeart]

What I find helps more than cheap bikes is a clear plan for what I am buying. That more than anything saves me a bunch when I'm shopping for GW stuff.

 

You are looking to collect the following:

 

12 bikes

2 attack bikes

3 land speeders (one of these will be Sableclaw)

 

That gets you a 750 point list and a solid core for RW which is also flexible for your expansion.

[SyNidus]

Sableclaw? Does no one play Sammael on a Jetbike anymore?

I've got a rough idea for an army list which is as follows:

1850

 

RSF

HQ:
Sammael - 200

Librarian - ML2 - Bike - 110

Librarian - ML2 - Bike - 110

 

Elite:

BK Command Squad - 6 bikes - Apothecary, Banner, 2 GLaunchers - 290

 

Fast Attack:

RW Bike Squad - 5 bikes - 2 Gravguns - 155

RW Bike Squad - 5 bikes - 2 Gravguns - 155

RW Attack Bike - 1 bike - MM - 55

RW Attack Bike - 1 bike - MM - 55

RW Attack Bike - 1 bike - MM - 55

RW Attack Bike - 1 bike - MM - 55

 

RSS

Darkshroud - HB - 80

3 Landspeeder Typhoon - TML & HB - 225

- 305

 

RSS

Darkshroud - HB - 80

3 Landspeeder Typhoon - TML & HB - 225

- 305

 

Total: 1850
Model Count: 31

What do you guys reckon?

[ValourousHeart]

The Jetbike is a very cool looking model, and I recommend everyone who collects RW to get one.

However in my experence most HQ units are only as good as the unit that escorts them.

 

A Librarian in a RWCS is only slightly better than the RWCS by itself.

A Chaplain is better than the Librarian, and makes the RWCS better, but it won't have double the impact of the RWCS alone.

 

All Sableclaw needs is for you to bring a couple other speeders, which you were going to anyway.

Sableclaw and the RWCS is twice as devastating as just the RWCS alone.

 

You don't need 2 RWGL on you RWCS, one is enough, and I have been having success without any.

2 reduces the ammount of damage the squad can do by to great a margin.

 

Having your Dark Shrouds in the back field protecting your Typhoons isn't wrong, but I don't feel it is very optimal either.

The RWSS with Dark Shroud has 4+ cover without Jinking and gives out stealth to other nearby units.

Your bikes won't be nearby if you are in your backfield, also you won't likely be within 24 inches for the overwatch protection.

 

If you switch to HB/AC for the speeders you can run your RWSS in the midfield behind your speeders and clear off tarpit units from swamping your bikes.

 

The points you just saved on the RWSS can upgrade 2 of your attack bikes to HB/AC speeders.

Those 2 speeders and the 2 Attack bikes can form 2 RWAS that you could outflank with.

If you like the damage an attack bikes does when running around your opponent's deployment zone... You are going to love what a Land Speeder will do back there.

[Interrogator Stobz]

^^^

[Major_Gilbear]

Keep in mind that the DV bikes are the cheapest you can reasonably buy, but that you get a fixed ratio of a Plasma gun, robed Sergeant, and bolt pistol mook.

 

However, with some planning, that can work out well enough for you. I'll go through my thoughts/plans here, which may also be of benefit to you.

 

Say you buy 8 DV bike squads. You then get 8 of each of the three bikes I mentioned above. These could be arranged as:

 

Three squads, each consisting of 2 Plasma Guns, 2 Bolt pistols 1 Sergeant

 

You then use 5 of the remaining Sergeants to make a squad of Black Knights (using plasma pistols to make plasma talons on their bikes).

 

The two bolt-pistol bikes left can be used to upgrade a pair of Attack Bikes to a Ravenwing style bike (which leaves you with two normal bikes spare)

 

The two plasma gun bikes left can be used as swaps for having different special weapons in your bike squads.

 

The two normal bikes can be used as mounts for a Librarian and a Chaplain. This is useful as these characters don't have the Ravenwing special rule, and you can use the slightly plainer-looking bikes to reflect this. (Obviously, you can still put icons and hussar banners on them though!).

 

Beyond this, you will want to have a moderate mix of special weapons (including a couple of swaps). Grav is popular and obvious, a couple of Plasma and Melta are sensible, and you might want a flamer or two. If you magnetise them, the weapon swaps are less urgent. However, if you have the extra models for swaps, it also allows you to run smaller bike squads with extra special weapons (two each) if you want to (i.e., you get more flexibility to try out other arrangements, or to adapt to future lists/formations).

 

You can expand this as you wish, perhaps even doubling up on the above. The actual BK models I would then use for the command squad, and you can spread the Corvus hammers out through all the BK squads in the army (I personally don;t think it's essential every model has a Hammer to show that the squad as a whole has been upgraded). Finally, you'll want some Speeders and a version of Sammael. I'd magnetise the Land Speeders if you can - honestly, it's pretty easy, and again gives you a lot of flexibility. Attack bikes should all be MultiMelta, because I cannot think of a single edition where the Heavy Bolter was obviously better, and because the MM gives you the compact anti-tank punch such a force needs. If you need mass anti-infantry firepower, the regular bikes and the LS are better bets IMO.

 

Following this route, I don't think you will waste any money - you're getting the bulk of the bikes and at least a squad of BK for rock-bottom prices, the special weapons and land speeders are all magnetised, and the attack bikes have been better in MM configuration since the days of Second Edition. The hardest choices (money-wise) for you will be whether to go for a Champ in the BKCS, what (if any) extra weapons you want to buy your Sergeants, and what version of Sammael to go for. :P

[SyNidus]

That sounds pretty awesome, but I don't see how Sableclaw can join a unit.

 

The RWAS is pretty cool

[Epher]

Looks like a pretty solid list to me!  The only thing I would do is have three squads of four bikes and each squad would have special weapons.  You will need to find 80 more points somewhere.  Another thing to consider if you want to keep some units in reserve and bring them in on the second turn you can have two Ravenwing Strike Forces.  The second will auto arrive on the second turn!

 

The plasma pistols look a little small to use them as plasma talons.  The plasma guns look a little big but I have decent results with them (will post in my thread later).  The conversion is fairly simple to make a DV biker into a Black Knight. The BK box comes with corvus hammers and bolt pistols.  So you can equip them with either.  You get 4 front fairings with weapons from he BK box meaning that you can cut the bolters off the front of one bike and you are set to go!

 

If you are considering magnetizing you should check out Galthan Ironstrum's thread.  He has a great way of swapping weapons by using pins.  It is on the first page of his thread.  I will post a link later since my outdated work computer will not let me.

[ValourousHeart]

Sableclaw doesn't join a unit. The protection it receives from other speeders is more a "psychology save."

 

You can take an Attack Bike for 55 points. But you can take that same Attack Bike and a Land Speeder with outflank for 125 points. And the RWSS is probably the best skimmer squad in the game. So it is going to be hard to justify why you don't have the points for speeders.

 

And once you have a couple of speeders, especially when most are run as singles, tossing Sableclaw into the mix just fits.

 

The "psychology save" comes in when your opponent is trying to pick targets. Do they take the glory shot and try to claim slay the warlord, or do they divide their fire and try to take down more of the normal speeders. All are viable targets, and all are presented to you. You can likely take out any one of them... Maybe 2 if you don't shoot at Sableclaw. Maybe none if you do.

 

But in the end it really doesn't matter to me which one you shoot at. Because the one you shoot at will be the one that is the biggest threat to something that is key to your battle plan. Your win condition. Once you know what a person's win condition is, it becomes easy to take apart their army.

 

See you wouldn't run the librarian on a bike across the table by himself. You would run him with a RWCS. Well that is about 400-500 points. In the same manner you don't run Sableclaw across the table by himself. You send several land speeders with him. For under 500 points you can have Sableclaw + 4 land speeders and they will do terrible things to your opponent when you run them up a flank. You have to dedicate 5 units to deal with that, because they are units of 1. Do you have 5 units that cost under 500 point total that can deal with that from 36 inches away? How big of a priority is it to kill Sableclaw now?