Jackalwolf Posted June 29, 2016 Share Posted June 29, 2016 Hey ladies and gents, Just writing in to ask for opinions on my 2.5k Maru Skara list I´m building to, since I am quite a slow painter and need to make sure for starters that I have access to a do-it-all list that is fluffy. Without further ado, here are my two options: ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Emperor's Children - Maru Skara A (2500pts) HQ Legion Champion (125pts) [Phoenix Spear, Tartaros Terminator Armour with Combi-bolter and Power Weapon] Legion Praetor (505pts) [Artificer Armour, Digital Lasers, Iron Halo, Legion Scimitar Jetbike with Heavy Bolter, Mastercraft a Single Weapon, Melta Bombs, Paragon Blade] Legion Command Squad [3x Combat Shield, Legion Scimitar Jetbikes with Heavy Bolters, 2x Legion Space Marine Chosen, Melta Bombs, 3x Power Weapon] Troops (480pts) Legion Tactical Squad (240pts) [Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier, 9x Legion Tactical Space Marines, Legion Vexilla, Take an additional Chainsword or Combat Blade] Legion Tactical Sergeant [Artificer Armour, Power Fist] Legion Tactical Squad (240pts) [Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier, 9x Legion Tactical Space Marines, Legion Vexilla, Take an additional Chainsword or Combat Blade] Legion Tactical Sergeant [Artificer Armour, Phoenix Spear] Elites (840pts) Phoenix Terminator Squad (585pts) [4x Phoenix Terminators] Legion Spartan Assault Tank [Flare Shield] Rylanor the Unyielding (255pts) Fast Attack (225pts) Primaris-Lightning Strike Fighter (225pts) [battle Servitor Control, 3x Two Kraken penetrator heavy missiles] Heavy Support (325pts) Legion Sicaran Battle Tank (135pts) Sicaran Venator Tank Destroyer (190pts) ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Emperor's Children - Maru Skara B (2500pts) HQ (340pts) Legion Champion (150pts) [Legion Scimitar Jetbike with Heavy Bolter, Phoenix Spear, Power Armour] Legion Praetor (190pts) [Artificer Armour, Digital Lasers, Iron Halo, Mastercraft a Single Weapon, Melta Bombs, Paragon Blade, Volkite Serpenta] Troops (480pts) Legion Tactical Squad (240pts) [Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier, 9x Legion Tactical Space Marines, Legion Vexilla, Take an additional Chainsword or Combat Blade] Legion Tactical Sergeant [Artificer Armour, Power Fist] Legion Tactical Squad (240pts) [Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier, 9x Legion Tactical Space Marines, Legion Vexilla, Take an additional Chainsword or Combat Blade] Legion Tactical Sergeant [Artificer Armour, Phoenix Spear] Elites (1105pts) Palatine Blade Squad (265pts) [9x Palatine Warrior, 2x Pheonix Spear] Palatine Prefector [Pheonix Spear] Phoenix Terminator Squad (585pts) [4x Phoenix Terminators] Legion Spartan Assault Tank [Flare Shield] Rylanor the Unyielding (255pts) Fast Attack (440pts) Legion Jetbike Sky Hunter Squadron (190pts) [Melta Bombs, Multi-Melta, 3x Space Marine Sky Hunters] Sky Hunter Sergeant [Phoenix Spear] Legion Storm Eagle Assault Gunship (250pts) [Two Twin-linked Lascannons] Heavy Support (135pts) Legion Sicaran Battle Tank (135pts) ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Game wise: Turn 1 sees the table with each the sicaran(s) supporting the advance of the tactical squads, and Rylanor and the Lord Commander/Champion with retinue on jetbikes "freelancing". Turn 2 the hidden blade strikes, bringing all my flyer(s) and/or Spartan with the support from the Sicarans to create some corridors for my infantry to advance through. Champion and jetbike squad charge into combat to hurt a unit or melta bomb some armor. Tactical Squads take positions in midfield. Turn 3 the payload of character killing phoenix terminators assaults delivering a couple dozen AP2 at initiative 6 attacks. Jetbikes strike again or for the first time. Tacticals hold ground in midfield or advance to join the charge as necessary. In general the idea is that, despite having quite a balanced force in the board from the onset, every turn will bring some new threat that should make my opponent take some (hopefully bad) decisions. Considerations: At the moment my jetbikes, legion champion, rylanor and tactical squads are painted or about to be finished, so they´re innegotiable. Anything else can be replaced as long as it´s for something fluffy befitting Loyalist ECs. List A seems to be more balanced, but List B utilizes all special units for EC and a Storm Eagle and a Spartan, two vehicles I love. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorgothNL Posted June 29, 2016 Share Posted June 29, 2016 Your lists look quite like mine, and it plays really nicely and fun. From competitive point of view I'd go for the first list. It has a Venator and the lightning with kraken missiles to pop armour (2 of the best units to do so). The second list has neither. In the second list your terminators and palatines could really face a problem if the opponent also brought sicaran / spartans, for your lascannons are the only way to kill them (and they can't blow up a spartan with flare shield, and you can't afford to spend the whole game taking off hullpoints). Meltabombs on the bikes also do a goo job, but thats quite You could maybe try to find a hybrid between list A and B. Not sure how it will end up points wise, but from list 1, take out the venator, change command squad to normal jetbikes and take palatines with jump packs with the saved points? (though I prefer palatines in a transport, but in 30k nobody really plays powerhouse so you can afford to not use every single unit in the list in the most effective way). Just to give maybe help you out somehow, this is my list (just in a quick format): 1 Eidolon 1 Champion (Tartaros, spear) 10 Tacticals (artificer, meltabombs) 1 Rhino 10 Tacticals (artificer, meltabombs) 1 Rhino 1 Apothecary (artificer) 1 Contemptor Mortis (assault cannons) 8 Veterans (vexilla, 4 power weapons) 6 Phoenix Guard (grenade harness, shriekers) 1 Anvillus Dreadclaw 1 Storm Eagle (lascannons) 1 Primaris Lightning (3x kraken, servitor, auguries) 1 Sicaran Battle tank (lascannons, dozer blade) 1 Sircan Venator (Heavy Bolters) Eidolon + Apothecary + Veterans go in the Dreadclaw. Phoenix Guard + Champion go in the Eagle. Maru Skara has Dreadclaw, Eagle and Lighting come in T2. Lightning should open up even the toughest target, so the next turn the phoenix guard and Eidolon will get smacking (since the lightning can do another 2 kraken that turn before they assault, and the venator and battle tank also had 3 turns of shooting) I have changed my list of late because of the GW FAQ draft that says that only 1 melta bomb can be used per unit in assault. If this rule doesn't make the final draft I take out the Venator and give the veterans melta bombs. (this than frees up points for jetbikes for example) Additionally, I use palatine models for my veterans, and I sometimes change the list by actually playing palatines and not veterans (taking out the apothecary and adding 1 palatine). That list then has Eagle, phoenix guard, palatines so quite EC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorgothNL Posted June 29, 2016 Share Posted June 29, 2016 So just a quick suggestion after using battlescribe: + HQ + 1 Legion Centurion (175) - Artificer Armour, Jetbike, Referactor Field, Melta bombs, Phoenix Spear 1 Praetor (185) - Artificer Armour, Paragon Blade, Melta Bombs, Mastercrafted, Digital Lasers, Iron Halo + TROOPS + 10 Legion tactical Marines (200) - Rhino, Artificer Armour, Melta Bombs 10 Legion tactical Marines (200) - Rhino, Artificer Armour, Melta Bombs + ELITES + 9 Palatine Blade Squad (250) - Melta Bombs, 3 Phoenix Spear 5 Phoenix Guard Terminators (275) - Grenade Harness 1 Rylanor + FAST ATTACK + 3 Jetbikes (175) - Sergeant, Melta Bombs, Multi Melta 1 Storm Eagle 1 Primaris Lightning (235) - 3x Kraken, Auguries, Servitor + HEAVY SUPPORT + 1 Spartan (340) - Flare Shield, Armoured Ceramite You can choose if the Palatines/Phoenix go in Eagle/Spartan. It has both, it has everything you already have, has lots of EC units, has anti tank, anti air, anti infantry.. seems quite solid from first glance. (keep the tacticals cheap, they are your scoring unit, spend the points on other things.. 40pts for extra cc weapons is a lot). Praetor can also go with either but I used 9 palatines cause I intended him in that squad. You could also give the jetbike to the praetor and have the champion walk. But since that 3 man jetbike squad won't have the staying power, I would want to but my warlord in there. 4 can ben very effective if you can get 3 of them with Melta bombs into contact with enemy armour, or just use them to be annoying/contest objectives. Rylanor is way overpriced in my eyes (and I can't take him anymore since the loyalist/traitor thing became an actual rule and I roll with Eidolon). You could always just use him as a normal contemptor with the same loadout and again, save quite some points (I don't think your list will need the combat bonus). But I understand the fluff/loyalist point of view, and thats fine :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackalwolf Posted June 29, 2016 Author Share Posted June 29, 2016 Thank you so much mate! You've really cracked how to make a balanced list with all the fantastic EC specific units. I'm definitely going to build towards it and leave the Sicarans for a further expansion. Palatine blades are too amazing models to not have them in my core list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorgothNL Posted June 29, 2016 Share Posted June 29, 2016 Thank you so much mate! You've really cracked how to make a balanced list with all the fantastic EC specific units. I'm definitely going to build towards it and leave the Sicarans for a further expansion. Palatine blades are too amazing models to not have them in my core list. So true, they were the first models I bought.. but that was way back when they were the first EC units :P. But they were the reason I choose EC out of all 18 available legions. Besides, if its the models you want, you can always find a way to field them and stick to EC fluff and WYSIWYG. (Veterans with power weapons, palatine blades, command squad with sabres or pw or even as Tactical Sergeants). Mine have been all of the above throughout slowly building up my EC list and making decisions regarding its contents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackalwolf Posted June 29, 2016 Author Share Posted June 29, 2016 Ah yes, the beauty of the EC for me too is that all the Legion non specific kits of characters cater to them. I'm using the Praetor models as tactical sergeants, I'm collecting torsos of the terminator Praetor to make a cataphractii squad, the Praetor Tribune will be the sergeant of either my Phoenix Guard or a tartaros unit, and the mkii and mkiii command squads will make my on foot command squad when I've built enough that I can spend time in doing versions of the same unit. By the way, if you select an aerial squad of lightning as your Low, can you field them via Maru Skara since they're a Fast Attack unit or the fact you're getting them from your Low slot negates that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorgothNL Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 Ah yes, the beauty of the EC for me too is that all the Legion non specific kits of characters cater to them. I'm using the Praetor models as tactical sergeants, I'm collecting torsos of the terminator Praetor to make a cataphractii squad, the Praetor Tribune will be the sergeant of either my Phoenix Guard or a tartaros unit, and the mkii and mkiii command squads will make my on foot command squad when I've built enough that I can spend time in doing versions of the same unit. By the way, if you select an aerial squad of lightning as your Low, can you field them via Maru Skara since they're a Fast Attack unit or the fact you're getting them from your Low slot negates that? That will be a unique looking unit! Kudos for that dedication. I also ave the Tribune, I'll be interchanging parts with a phoenix guard (not sure which parts yet) and make him my Champion. Maru skara specifically talks about 'Elites and Fast attack Choices'. If it said 'models' you could go your way maybe, but this is really clear that it means FA and Elite SLOTS (choices). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackalwolf Posted June 30, 2016 Author Share Posted June 30, 2016 Cool thanks, On a side note, do you think a swap of the Storm Eagle for a Land Raider Phobos to carry the Palatine Blades would work? It´s just basically since I¨m going to buy the Land Raider Excelsior to pimp up my command Spartan with all the Aquila paraphernalia that it brings, so I´ll have a spare Phobos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorgothNL Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 Cool thanks, On a side note, do you think a swap of the Storm Eagle for a Land Raider Phobos to carry the Palatine Blades would work? It´s just basically since I¨m going to buy the Land Raider Excelsior to pimp up my command Spartan with all the Aquila paraphernalia that it brings, so I´ll have a spare Phobos. No reason why it wouldn't mate. I put the eagle in there cause you wanted the model in there . My own list has one for that exact reason... and honestly, 75% of the time a Spartan/Landraider would have been better in the battle than the Storm Eagle. But that's 30k, no need to always go for the best, but more narrative/fluff play and just go with what you like (to some extend). To elaborate: my Storm Eagle has never seen a 3th turn on the field. 10% of the time he dies T2 (the turn he arrives) and 90% of the time he dies T3. Flyers are hard to shoot at IF you are zooming. But having lost my entire unit twice due to crash and burn, I now never have it zoom while it still has marines inside, which just makes it a nice, expensive, AV12 target that most things can hurt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackalwolf Posted July 4, 2016 Author Share Posted July 4, 2016 Thanks mate. On a side note, should I want to use Eidolon and Fulgrim since they´re amazing models, how´s this alternative list since I´d have to go traitor to get them in my list even if i´d play them as pre Isstvan III loyalists: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Emperor's Children - Phoenix Talon (2500pts) HQ (335pts) Legion Centurion (150pts) [Legion Scimitar Jetbike with Heavy Bolter, Phoenix Spear, Power Armour] ····Consul [Legion Champion] Lord Commander Eidolon (185pts) ····Master of the Legion [The Maru Skara] Troops (350pts) - Legion Tactical Squad (175pts) [9x Legion Tactical Space Marines] Legion Tactical Sergeant [Artificer Armour, Power Fist] - Legion Tactical Squad (175pts) [9x Legion Tactical Space Marines] Legion Tactical Sergeant [Artificer Armour, Phoenix Spear] + Elites (1020pts) + Contemptor Dreadnought Talon (190pts) ····Legion Contemptor Dreadnought [Kheres Pattern Assault Cannon] Palatine Blade Squad (245pts) [9x Palatine Warrior] ····Palatine Prefector [Pheonix Spear] Phoenix Terminator Squad (585pts) [4x Phoenix Terminators] ····Legion Spartan Assault Tank [Flare Shield] Fast Attack (415pts) - Legion Jetbike Sky Hunter Squadron (150pts) [Melta Bombs, 3x Space Marine Sky Hunters] - Legion Storm Eagle Assault Gunship (265pts) [Twin-linked Multi-melta, Two Twin-linked Lascannons] Lord of War (380pts) - Fulgrim the Illuminator (380pts) [Fireblade] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Still uses all the models that I love and own, and gains a good punch in CC (5 Phoenix + Eidolon in Spartan, Fulgrim + 10 Palatines in Storm Eagle are quite strong CC units) at the cost of some anti armor (1 Land Raider Phobos and 1 Lightning fully loaded became 1 Storm Eagle with lascannons and multi melta). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorgothNL Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 I've run Eidolon and Fulgrim in a 2500pts many times, and it works fine. I have removed Fulgrim from my 2500pts list and added him for 3000pts, just cause I don't always want to bring a LOW. If you use all the units in this list perfectly you should be fine on every front. Anti-tank took a punch by taking out the lightning, but when you have a Spartan of your own, that decreases the fear of the opponent by quite a lot (since he's in the same boat as you now). Few thoughts without thinking about how to shift the points: - I suggest you give the palatine prefector melta bombs. 1 Melta bombs can make so much difference when you need it to. And for 5pts it's a no-brainer most of the time. Especially on a expensive squad like the palatines. I know you probably have Eidolon in that squad? But Melta bombs have a much bigger punch vs armour than the hammer. - On that same regard, think about the anti tank abilities of your 2 expensive assault squads. Phoenix guard can't do anything vs armour, nor can the palatines. Fulgrim can't do much either. Eidolon can handle most things but still just be careful with that squad. Think about Fulgrim with the Phoenix Guard getting charged by a Contemptor dread, Leviathan or Salamander Dread. That's 650pts locked until the end of days (I've had this happend multiple times and it sucks). When your opponent realises that short-coming, he just has to keep the dread close to whatever unit he doesn't want to see being charged by them. (and 90% of the lists out there have one of those types of dreads). So, not necessarily something you have to change, but be careful with it. This is why I tend to run Eidolon with veterans (with melta bombs) and put a Champion with TH/MB in the Phoenix Guard squad. - When running Fulgrim, Maru Skara becomes way less needed, since Fulgrim gives the reserve control quite good already (and very good if you give him a relevant reserve warlord trait, though I usually just stick with the re-roll). You could than just change the champion to a jetbike sergeant and use points left on melta bombs and the next point: - Please give that Spartan armoured ceramite. It's a steal considering the survivability it adds to the Spartan. I would never ever run a Spartan if I couldn't give it flare shield + armoured ceramite. - I've never regreted spending points on Melta bombs on tactical sergeants. But this is play style I guess. I wouldn't quickly choose power fist on a sergeant because of our legion special rule, but thats again preference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackalwolf Posted July 6, 2016 Author Share Posted July 6, 2016 I actually was thinking of using Eidolon along with the phoenix guard in the Spartan and Fulgrim with the palatines in the Storm Eagle, so I can always thunder hammer/melta bomb or rend anything. I moved a bit points to find the melta bombs for the prefector. Also, I added a twin linked lascannon to the Contemptor instead of the Kheres for more anti armor power. I´m afraid I can´t take out the power fist since I´m using the ltd edition praetor with PF as the sergeant model, and as for the Champion, considering the bling I added to the miniature he has to be a centurion at least, since he looks way over the top for a sergeant of a skyhunter pack. List looks like this now: --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- CC Damage Dealer Squad 1 Lord Commander Eidolon (185pts) + Phoenix Terminator Squad (585pts) [4x Phoenix Terminators] + Legion Spartan Assault Tank [Flare Shield] Tactical Squad 1 Legion Tactical Squad (175pts) [9x Legion Tactical Space Marines], Legion Tactical Sergeant [Artificer Armour, Power Fist] Tactical Squad 2 Legion Tactical Squad (175pts) [9x Legion Tactical Space Marines], Legion Tactical Sergeant [Artificer Armour, Phoenix Spear] Multi-purpose fast mobile unit Legion Champion (150pts) [Legion Scimitar Jetbike with Heavy Bolter, Phoenix Spear, Power Armour] + Legion Jetbike Sky Hunter Squadron (150pts) [Melta Bombs, 3x Space Marine Sky Hunters] Multi-purpose support unit Legion Contemptor Dreadnought (200pts) [Twin Linked Lascannon] CC Damage Dealer Squad 2 Fulgrim the Illuminator (380pts) [Fireblade] + Palatine Blade Squad (250pts) [9x Palatine Warrior], Palatine Prefector [Pheonix Spear, Melta bombs] + Legion Storm Eagle Assault Gunship (250pts) [Two Twin-linked Lascannons] --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The hidden blade would be Fulgrim with the palatines in the Storm Eagle. If you really think Maru Skara is not needed, I could downgrade the Champion to a Centurion and use the 35 points to give armored ceramite to the Spartan, Melta bombs to the tactical sergeant with phoenix spear, and melta bombs and a sonic shrieker/combat shield to the Centurion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caustic63 Posted July 7, 2016 Share Posted July 7, 2016 List looks like this now: --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- CC Damage Dealer Squad 1 Lord Commander Eidolon (185pts) + Phoenix Terminator Squad (585pts) [4x Phoenix Terminators] + Legion Spartan Assault Tank [Flare Shield] Tactical Squad 1 Legion Tactical Squad (175pts) [9x Legion Tactical Space Marines], Legion Tactical Sergeant [Artificer Armour, Power Fist] Tactical Squad 2 Legion Tactical Squad (175pts) [9x Legion Tactical Space Marines], Legion Tactical Sergeant [Artificer Armour, Phoenix Spear] Multi-purpose fast mobile unit Legion Champion (150pts) [Legion Scimitar Jetbike with Heavy Bolter, Phoenix Spear, Power Armour] + Legion Jetbike Sky Hunter Squadron (150pts) [Melta Bombs, 3x Space Marine Sky Hunters] Multi-purpose support unit Legion Contemptor Dreadnought (200pts) [Twin Linked Lascannon] CC Damage Dealer Squad 2 Fulgrim the Illuminator (380pts) [Fireblade] + Palatine Blade Squad (250pts) [9x Palatine Warrior], Palatine Prefector [Pheonix Spear, Melta bombs] + Legion Storm Eagle Assault Gunship (250pts) [Two Twin-linked Lascannons] --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- My understanding of the Maru Skara RoW has evolved significantly from when I started the Emperor's Children Tactica thread almost two years ago, and it still remains my second favourite RoW behind 3rd Company Elite. I feel like I can offer you some good advice here. You may not enjoy hearing this, but your army would be much better served as 3rd Company switching the transports for Fulgrim's and Eidolon's units (this allows you to start with Fulgrim on the board you you can use his reserves rerolls). With Fulgrim in your army (so you are traitors) and limited benefits from T2 Outflanking with CC units, you could optimize this list with few changes taking this approach. As 3rd Company, you could then change the Champion on a Jetbike into a Primus Medicae on a Jetbike for the same cost. Give Fulgrim the Conquerer of Cities Warlord Trait and you're golden on most battlefields. Other more advanced things you could do: - Change the Tactical Squads (x2) into Kakophoni (x2) by dropping the Champion/Medicae altogether - Change the Storm Eagle into a Land Raider Phobos so all your combat units start on the board and you have armour saturation (plus minimal vulnerability to Deredeos) - Change the Storm Eagle into a Dreadclaw and use the spare points to buy a Primaris Lightning with Krakens Missiles. But of course all these changes are up to you. Maru Skara makes sense when you base your entire battle plan around it - ie having Outflanking firepower units like Javelins, Plasma Outriders, Jetbikes, Primaris Lightnings, Veterans, or Dreadnoughts. When they reduce the price of Assault Squads by 50 points (this was confirmed from the mouth of the devs at one of the conventions) in the coming Legionnaires Astartes book I would argue they make the most sense as the Troops of choice in a Maru Skara list due to their ability to quickly close in through the centre to support your Flankers. I'd imagine a list like this could be quite deadly soon: Eidolon w JP Champion with a Spear & JP/Bike/Jetbike Assault Squad (x15) w Power Weapons, Spear Sergeant Assault Squad (x15) w Power Weapons, Spear Sergeant Javelin Speeders (x2) w Missiles & HKs Outriders (x6) w TL PGs Primaris Lightning w Krakens + Dreadnoughts/Quads + Heavy Support Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorgothNL Posted July 7, 2016 Share Posted July 7, 2016 I think the list looks quite good to be honest. Is it the best out there, no, but my lists are often less optimised than yours (wish I has jetbikes for example) and I do more than fine. It takes some getting used to playing Maru Skara, but once you have your target priorities figured out, it does wonders. You could go with something like Caustic suggested, but that seems to change 90% of the units you were planning on using/already have and it goes full blown traitor (no offence meant, just the way I was thinking when I was building a similar list to Grieux. Don't feel the need to play the best of the best, make sure it's fun for you to collect, paint and play). You could make the original list more effective, but considering what you seemed to want in your list, I think you made a nice list, and wouldn't worry about running it unless you are planning on facing power-house armies. I can't think of a 30k army I've seen, that you would not at least have the 50/50 change of winning against. Solar auxilia with all the vehicles and Malcador always give a hard time, but they give anything a hard time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.