Helias_Tancred Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 I just finished reading this book of the Horus Heresy series. When I first started it and it made mention of the Blood Angel contingent on Molech and the first scene showing them prior to the fighting, I was stoked. As the book moved onward and the fighting got heavy I was really looking forward to what our brothers would do in their fight against the Sons of Horus. Then I was let down. Very let down. Anyone else feel the same way about how we were depicted in this book? It also felt like by the time we got to the part where the Blood Angels came in, McNeil was running out of time or pages and hurriedly rushed our scene and really made something that had the potential to be very cool to be very .... lame. Besides Fear to Tread are there some other Horus Heresy novels where we are done right? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323579-vengeful-spirit-horus-heresy-series-ba-depiction/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenith Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 Yes.i was disappointed too. It seems to be a problem Graham McNeil has that he tries to show the first instances of everything. In this case, painting the armour black, overcharging the engines. He attempted an ADB style 'surf the rhino into battle' from what I recall, but it felt a little flat. The BA added nothing to the story whatsoever. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323579-vengeful-spirit-horus-heresy-series-ba-depiction/#findComment-4432260 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHelion Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 I completely forgot there were even BA in Vengeful Spirit. Says a lot about how much of an impact they had on the story, doesn't it? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323579-vengeful-spirit-horus-heresy-series-ba-depiction/#findComment-4432301 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reyner Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 They were only there to show how much the Red Angel daemon could screw them over, a little follow on from Fear to Tread :( Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323579-vengeful-spirit-horus-heresy-series-ba-depiction/#findComment-4432303 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blindhamster Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 I can't even remember the scene which says a lot... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323579-vengeful-spirit-horus-heresy-series-ba-depiction/#findComment-4432335 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damon Nightman Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 What was so bad about the depiction? I don't mind spoilers. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323579-vengeful-spirit-horus-heresy-series-ba-depiction/#findComment-4432444 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reyner Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 What was so bad about the depiction? I don't mind spoilers. There was quite a cool build up with the captain climbing things and jumping off them as a form of meditation or something along those lines. Then the Sons of Horus attack Molech and just as the Red Angel (daemon thing) is deployed to the field it drives the Blood Angels insane and they commit suicide before it controls them. Every. Last. One. It has been a while since I read it but it is something like that. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323579-vengeful-spirit-horus-heresy-series-ba-depiction/#findComment-4432476 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damon Nightman Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 Holy beep, we are just a joke to both gw and black library it seems. Apparently it's a huge mystery and really hard to do BA right. Though I guess it's better they were able to kill themselves before turning to chaos? Still sounds very disappointing to say the least... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323579-vengeful-spirit-horus-heresy-series-ba-depiction/#findComment-4432481 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenith Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 Well, they threw themselves into the hardest fighting and died before they went insane.... Kind of a precursor to how the death company are used in 40k. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323579-vengeful-spirit-horus-heresy-series-ba-depiction/#findComment-4432534 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damon Nightman Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 Oh I thought they like put their guns to their heads, not charged crazily into a suicide mission. I think that's a bit better.... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323579-vengeful-spirit-horus-heresy-series-ba-depiction/#findComment-4432552 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafen IX Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 They carved a path through the heart of the army. Far beyond what anyone would have expected of them. The captain went blade master and completely owned half a platoon by himself. Then when they face the ultimate test and their very gene code is perverted and used against them they don't give in and remain pure. Horus is again amazed and enraged that he cannot get ANY Blood Angel to fall. (I agree that the writing could have been better) Also I can't wait to see what they do with the Red Angel. R Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323579-vengeful-spirit-horus-heresy-series-ba-depiction/#findComment-4432714 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafen IX Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 My personal theory is that the Red Angel at some point turns into the Sanguinor... :-o Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323579-vengeful-spirit-horus-heresy-series-ba-depiction/#findComment-4432719 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkangilos Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 Why do you say that? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323579-vengeful-spirit-horus-heresy-series-ba-depiction/#findComment-4432733 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafen IX Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 I don't want to spoil it for those who haven't read all the books where he makes an appearance. Just the way he is portrayed and the story behind the Red Angel fits for me. (I could list a few reasons but don't know how to hide spoilers lol) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323579-vengeful-spirit-horus-heresy-series-ba-depiction/#findComment-4432737 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkangilos Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 [*spoiler]content minus the * Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323579-vengeful-spirit-horus-heresy-series-ba-depiction/#findComment-4432739 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafen IX Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 Meros on becoming the Red Angel is portrayed as having wings and dark shattered blood red armour. The Sanguinor is not Primarch sized but has an aura that is beyond simple artificer armour that would hint at Azkelleon. The Sanguinors appearances are recorded by the Chaplains and the Sanguinary Guard believe him to be Azkelleon, both logically mean that neither of them know who he is, thus most likely he is not a marine picked at the time to don the armour. The way he appears when needed, Blood Angels psychic gift runs strongly so possibly they summon him when in desperate need. Just my thoughts but I think it's more likely than Azkelleon or Sanguinius' soul. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323579-vengeful-spirit-horus-heresy-series-ba-depiction/#findComment-4432742 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damon Nightman Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 Azkellon fights the red angel and the red angel tries to posess him but instead it creates the sanguinor due to azkellon's will and faithfulness to his legionNever read any of the books just made that up... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323579-vengeful-spirit-horus-heresy-series-ba-depiction/#findComment-4432744 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkangilos Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 Meros on becoming the Red Angel is portrayed as having wings and dark shattered blood red armour. The Sanguinor is not Primarch sized but has an aura that is beyond simple artificer armour that would hint at Azkelleon. The Sanguinors appearances are recorded by the Chaplains and the Sanguinary Guard believe him to be Azkelleon, both logically mean that neither of them know who he is, thus most likely he is not a marine picked at the time to don the armour. The way he appears when needed, Blood Angels psychic gift runs strongly so possibly they summon him when in desperate need. Just my thoughts but I think it's more likely than Azkelleon or Sanguinius' soul. but there is a HH short where they actually choose a guy that they then call the Sanguinor, and they permanently cover his face with a mask. Not to mention the wings are artificial wings, not real ones. Not to mention that by this point, Azkaelon would have ascended with the power of Sanguinius in order to put off an aura Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323579-vengeful-spirit-horus-heresy-series-ba-depiction/#findComment-4432746 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafen IX Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 I am so willing for that to be true, because that would make Sanguinius and Azkalleon even cooler in my estimation. I know they choose a guard as his herald. But why would the guard believe it to be Azkelleon if it was a different gaurdsman? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323579-vengeful-spirit-horus-heresy-series-ba-depiction/#findComment-4432767 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damon Nightman Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 and how has the sanguinor survived so long if he is just an astartes bascially posing as sanguinius? and how does he just appear from nowhere? Arkangilos: what does this mean "Azkaelon would have ascended with the power of Sanguinius in order to put off an aura" What do you mean he ascended? i literally have no idea what happens to him, so not like disagreeing, just really curious Now that i read Rafen's interpretation, it sounds like the Blood angels did some work despite being completely outnumbered. Don't get what the fuss is about now. When someone said commit suicide i was picturing something completely different, not them charging right into horus's army and still messing stuff up! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323579-vengeful-spirit-horus-heresy-series-ba-depiction/#findComment-4432774 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafen IX Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 and how has the sanguinor survived so long if he is just an astartes bascially posing as sanguinius? and how does he just appear from nowhere? Arkangilos: what does this mean "Azkaelon would have ascended with the power of Sanguinius in order to put off an aura" What do you mean he ascended? i literally have no idea what happens to him, so not like disagreeing, just really curious Now that i read Rafen's interpretation, it sounds like the Blood angels did some work despite being completely outnumbered. Don't get what the fuss is about now. When someone said commit suicide i was picturing something completely different, not them charging right into horus's army and still messing stuff up! they did commit suicide, rejecting the offer of the Red Angel to become his chaos beserkers as they felt the pull of the curse which the Red Angel is literally made of. Think the strongest manifestation of the red thirst you could possibly have Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323579-vengeful-spirit-horus-heresy-series-ba-depiction/#findComment-4432780 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damon Nightman Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 and how has the sanguinor survived so long if he is just an astartes bascially posing as sanguinius? and how does he just appear from nowhere? Arkangilos: what does this mean "Azkaelon would have ascended with the power of Sanguinius in order to put off an aura" What do you mean he ascended? i literally have no idea what happens to him, so not like disagreeing, just really curious Now that i read Rafen's interpretation, it sounds like the Blood angels did some work despite being completely outnumbered. Don't get what the fuss is about now. When someone said commit suicide i was picturing something completely different, not them charging right into horus's army and still messing stuff up! they did commit suicide, rejecting the offer of the Red Angel to become his chaos beserkers as they felt the pull of the curse which the Red Angel is literally made of. Think the strongest manifestation of the red thirst you could possibly have how did they commit suicide specifically? You made it sound like they died charging Horus's men. Were they fighting and then felt the pull of the Red Angel and shot themselves instead of falling to chaos? Or was it just them rejecting the red angel which meant certain death that was the act of suicide? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323579-vengeful-spirit-horus-heresy-series-ba-depiction/#findComment-4432790 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafen IX Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 and how has the sanguinor survived so long if he is just an astartes bascially posing as sanguinius? and how does he just appear from nowhere? Arkangilos: what does this mean "Azkaelon would have ascended with the power of Sanguinius in order to put off an aura" What do you mean he ascended? i literally have no idea what happens to him, so not like disagreeing, just really curious Now that i read Rafen's interpretation, it sounds like the Blood angels did some work despite being completely outnumbered. Don't get what the fuss is about now. When someone said commit suicide i was picturing something completely different, not them charging right into horus's army and still messing stuff up! they did commit suicide, rejecting the offer of the Red Angel to become his chaos beserkers as they felt the pull of the curse which the Red Angel is literally made of. Think the strongest manifestation of the red thirst you could possibly have how did they commit suicide specifically? You made it sound like they died charging Horus's men. Were they fighting and then felt the pull of the Red Angel and shot themselves instead of falling to chaos? Or was it just them rejecting the red angel which meant certain death that was the act of suicide? they tore into the centre/right flank cutting very deep and sending them into disarray. The red Angel appeared and they all felt the pull of the thirst and knew they wouldn't be able to resist it for long. So taking their lead from the captain they all reversed their swords and shoved them through their jaws and into their brains. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323579-vengeful-spirit-horus-heresy-series-ba-depiction/#findComment-4432823 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damon Nightman Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 thanks man that sounds pretty intense... still pretty cool they were able to take some of them out before Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323579-vengeful-spirit-horus-heresy-series-ba-depiction/#findComment-4432838 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helias_Tancred Posted July 1, 2016 Author Share Posted July 1, 2016 Yes.i was disappointed too. It seems to be a problem Graham McNeil has that he tries to show the first instances of everything. In this case, painting the armour black, overcharging the engines. He attempted an ADB style 'surf the rhino into battle' from what I recall, but it felt a little flat. The BA added nothing to the story whatsoever. Yeah McNeil did us no favors in that novel. What he did with the Blood Angels was borderline corny and incompetent. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323579-vengeful-spirit-horus-heresy-series-ba-depiction/#findComment-4432915 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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